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God's moral law is the standard of measurement, which God, the Judge, uses to declare right or wrong.
God decides and all His creation is subject to them, whether anyone likes it or not.
My judgment, or your judgment, regarding God's moral law, is irrelevant. God's judgment is just as the one who created us and the law.
God is not subject to a democracy or checks and balances of a federal system. God is our Creator and He is our dictator, whether we like it or not. Fight against the bit all you want, but you are still a subject under the decree of a Sovereign God and King.
It's not my description. It's God's description in His holy word.
"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
"There is none that is righteous, no not one."
You can deny my comments all day, but God will bring you to account and your denials won't pass the test, which God has set up.
Pray for God's mercy and grace.
Yeshua, Jesus, is very existent. Your matrix doesn't change reality.
Then it's a good thing that we are not trying to prove or disprove any religion to be anything more than a placebo.I am not sure where you are going with that. If a religion cannot prove itself to be anything other than a placebo, I really do not have a use for it.
Just not in any way that you can demonstrate.Yeshua, Jesus, is very existent.
Your beliefs do not change reality.Your matrix doesn't change reality.
That it works as a placebo is already well established, in that so many different religions work for so many people. They cannot all be right.Then it's a good thing that we are not trying to prove or disprove any religion to be anything more than a placebo.
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"God demonstrated His love toward us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. "Just not in any way that you can demonstrate.
Your beliefs do not change reality.
Are you having doubts about your religion? Is that why you are here? To rant at some atheists until you feel better?
Promises are easy."God demonstrated His love toward us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. "
A glorious promise for God's elect.
...if your particular "God" exists, and you haven't got the wrong denomination, or hat, or whatever.My beliefs are only of value, if God has declared.
If you believe that you can get away with anything, as long as you believe, I can see how that might work for you.I trust God, the Creator.
This is demonstrably false, as my life has meaning and purpose, and I have never believed in any gods.You...you provide a life with no meaning or purpose.
What is the purpose of burning for eternity the majority of those that ever lived for reasons beyond their control?God gives purpose to everything.
Nope
God has speaks through His Word. This is enough. I am grateful that the Creator has condescended to share his means of reconciliation to lawbreakers like myself.
The whole topic might be easier to address if it was
established just what, exactly, "without God" is supposed
to look like (see post 252). Especially in the eyes of those
who believe there is a God to begin with. As a theist
myself, I just don't quite get that.
What, exactly, is "without God", to a theist?
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Since God is Sovereign, He might choose to call me to Himself by any means He chose, or He could justly and rightly have me die in my sins and pay the penalty for lawbreaking.So let me ask you: what would you do if you didn't have access to God's word? Like if you were born in a place without access?
We can never be good. Only God is good. Our goodness comes from the substitutionary act of Christ exchanging his goodness and placing it upon us as He takes God the Father's wrath for our sin.By "without God" I meant in disobedience to God's commands. So the question is, can a person in disobedience to God's commands be good?
Oh, okay.By "without God" I meant in disobedience to God's commands. So the question is, can a person in disobedience to God's commands be good?
There is no debate on this issue. God is quite clear and any disagreement with God's word is merely someone arguing from a wrong position.
We can never be good. Only God is good. Our goodness comes from the substitutionary act of Christ exchanging his goodness and placing it upon us as He takes God the Father's wrath for our sin.
Ok, I know you are asking me how "intended purpose" is connected with "good and how I can justify that connection. I would have to say that your question would be more appropriately asked, How is "created purpose" connected to something being "objectively good/bad"? The answer is quite simple. In order to measure anything, it requires some kind of objective standard to base that measurement. How do we know which way is true, grid, or magnetic north? We can objectively determine which way is north by using objective standards such as the magnetic poles, north star, GPS, ect. Now, lets say we took that objective standard away. Lets say we are floating in the vacuum of space. Which way is north then?
Although it may not be perfect, "created purpose" is the only objective standard (that I can think of anyway) to measure a thing's goodness. You see, anyone can determine something to be good/bad for various reasons. Sometimes what is "good or bad" is not "black and white". Without an objective standard of measure, good/bad can be rather difficult to determine.
My "painbot" example is the best could come up with to explain this. I know it is not perfect....but eh.
Lets say a man invented a robot. This robot was created with intelligence, feeling, hopes, dreams, emotions, and anything else you would expect a living individual to possess. However, this inventor created this robot for the sole purpose of inflicting pain and suffering onto it and called it a "painbot". (I know this sound twisted but bare with me.) Thus, the created purpose of a "painbot" is to suffer. Thus, the "painbot's" pain and suffering would be objectively good because it fulfills its created purpose. If a painbot was unable to experience pain and suffering, it would defective and rejected. Because for the painbot, joy and pleasure would go against a painbot's created purpose thus making joy and pleasure objectively bad.
Now you may say, "That is sick. Why would anyone be so twisted as to creating painbots?" That still does not change the fact that a good quality painbot is one who suffers greatly and a poor quality painbot is one who does not. All you have done is made the motive for the creation of painbots and the painbots themselves subjective but the actual purpose still remains objectively unchanged.
Lets say the inventor was a psychopath. Lets say he built hundreds of painbots so that himself and many other psychopaths could inflict pain and suffering on a machine rather than another human being. As a result, hundreds of human lives were saved because of it? Some may then say that painbots are good. Lets say that there was a supreme authority above all who created a law that prohibited the creation of painbots. That would make the motive and existence of painbots objectively bad. Yet it still does not change the objective fact that the level of pain and suffering a painbot experiences objectively determines how good or bad that painbot is.
You might be wondering, what does this have to do with a God. Well, I am not sure how it would work out in polytheism, but in monotheism (especially in regards to the God of Abraham) it is critical. Because if the God of Abraham is the one true God. That God is an eternal being who was never created and thus has no "created purpose". Being that this God has some level of intelligence, He is capable of bestowing a purpose onto Himself. However, because He as no equal to make that purpose subjective nor anyone above to make that purpose "objectively bad", whatever purpose He bestows upon Himself is "Objectively Good" by default! As a result, the purpose of all His creations will be "objectively good" by default. So in conclusion, assuming the God of Abraham is the one true God and not another, anything that a creation does that goes against God's created purpose is "objectively bad" and anything that agrees with God's created purpose is "objectively good".
It's not for me to demonstrate. That's God's choice as to whether you'll ever understand.
The Bible isn't made up, like your story.We are always good, and god is a turtle named Keith.
See, I can make all kinds of crazy assertions as well and not feel free to back them up with anything substantiative. My statement has just as much basis in reality as yours does.
You have shown nothing from God's word to prove your point. I have expressed God's word to you. I am an ambassador for the King (2 Corinthians 5).Except I'm not disagreeing with god's word, I'm disagreeing with you.
Unless you feel you speak directly for god?
I agree. I hate to be nihilist, but if a God does not exist. That would mean the universe was created out of nothing by nobody for absolutely no reason, all life is simply a byproduct of nature by natural means, when we die we will fade to non-existance, and ultimately all the universe will loose all it's energy and fade into darkness (as per the laws of thermodynamics and sorry for the run on sentence). So really, what's the point? Everything is meaningless. The best we can hope for is to give our lives some sort of meaning and live it the best we can before we die and fade into non-existance. Which is not wrong at all. However, we cannot escape the fact that since all life will ultimately cease to exist, whatever good or harm someone has done through the course of their life as well as the impact and legacy that individual has made of future generations is in the end...meaningless and so insignificant that it has no value.
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