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Can you be good without God?

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SteveB28

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You are not speaking of morality. You are speaking of obedience. The two are poles apart.
 
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SteveB28

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Yes, that is something another man wrote many years ago. I disagree with him as well.
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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I am not sure where you are going with that. If a religion cannot prove itself to be anything other than a placebo, I really do not have a use for it.
Then it's a good thing that we are not trying to prove or disprove any religion to be anything more than a placebo.

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Davian

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Yeshua, Jesus, is very existent.
Just not in any way that you can demonstrate.
Your matrix doesn't change reality.
Your beliefs do not change reality.

Are you having doubts about your religion? Is that why you are here? To rant at some atheists until you feel better?
 
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Davian

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Then it's a good thing that we are not trying to prove or disprove any religion to be anything more than a placebo.
That it works as a placebo is already well established, in that so many different religions work for so many people. They cannot all be right.

Now, if you want to concede that you cannot show that your religion is any different from placebo, fine by me.
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MennoSota

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Just not in any way that you can demonstrate.

Your beliefs do not change reality.

Are you having doubts about your religion? Is that why you are here? To rant at some atheists until you feel better?
"God demonstrated His love toward us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. "

A glorious promise for God's elect.

My beliefs are only of value, if God has declared.
I trust God, the Creator. You...you provide a life with no meaning or purpose.
God gives purpose to everything.
 
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Davian

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"God demonstrated His love toward us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. "

A glorious promise for God's elect.
Promises are easy.
My beliefs are only of value, if God has declared.
...if your particular "God" exists, and you haven't got the wrong denomination, or hat, or whatever.
I trust God, the Creator.
If you believe that you can get away with anything, as long as you believe, I can see how that might work for you.

Myself, I cannot believe something in the absence of compelling evidence.
You...you provide a life with no meaning or purpose.
This is demonstrably false, as my life has meaning and purpose, and I have never believed in any gods.

It also is a argument from consequences fallacy, in that even if that were true, it would not poof your god into existence.

It also begs the question, have you the right god? Have you the right denomination? I am being told in other threads in these forums that if are not of the right denomination, you are a heretic, and as lost as anyone adhering to the wrong religion, or no religion.

But what I gather from your insistence that "Without God, there is no meaning or purpose", is that, without your God, you would be sad. Would that be accurate?
God gives purpose to everything.
What is the purpose of burning for eternity the majority of those that ever lived for reasons beyond their control?
 
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Achilles6129

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Nope

God has speaks through His Word. This is enough. I am grateful that the Creator has condescended to share his means of reconciliation to lawbreakers like myself.

So let me ask you: what would you do if you didn't have access to God's word? Like if you were born in a place without access?
 
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Achilles6129

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By "without God" I meant in disobedience to God's commands. So the question is, can a person in disobedience to God's commands be good?
 
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MennoSota

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So let me ask you: what would you do if you didn't have access to God's word? Like if you were born in a place without access?
Since God is Sovereign, He might choose to call me to Himself by any means He chose, or He could justly and rightly have me die in my sins and pay the penalty for lawbreaking.
God is not obligated to pardon anyone. Ignorance is not an excuse.
As Christians, however, we are called to speak as Ambassadors for our King, in any and all parts of the world. This is our commission and call to obedience. Silence is disobedience on our part.
How you respond to the message is up to God to decide.
 
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MennoSota

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By "without God" I meant in disobedience to God's commands. So the question is, can a person in disobedience to God's commands be good?
We can never be good. Only God is good. Our goodness comes from the substitutionary act of Christ exchanging his goodness and placing it upon us as He takes God the Father's wrath for our sin.
 
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Rajni

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By "without God" I meant in disobedience to God's commands. So the question is, can a person in disobedience to God's commands be good?
Oh, okay.

Well, that can get kind of complicated.

Firstly, there are 613 commandments.

Then, there's one's rate of obedience: Is being obedient
to those commands most of the time good enough?
Or can one only be considered good if one is obedient
to those commandments 100% of the time?
That sort of thing.

I'm pretty sure goodness was a thing before
commandments came along, though. So
yeah, one can be good without needing
commandments. Even animals have been known
to do what we would consider The Right Thing
in certain circumstances. While that could be
explained as just their natural instinct, one who sees
God in such situations could also chalk it up to
God's empowering them, in such moments, "to will
and to work according to His good purpose", as
Philippians 2:13 puts it.

Divine empowerment, more than mere adherence to a
list of rules and regs, is what can make a person do
good things. That's why it's called the fruit of the
Spirit, I suppose.

All imo, of course.




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Dave Ellis

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There is no debate on this issue. God is quite clear and any disagreement with God's word is merely someone arguing from a wrong position.

Except I'm not disagreeing with god's word, I'm disagreeing with you.

Unless you feel you speak directly for god?
 
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Dave Ellis

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We can never be good. Only God is good. Our goodness comes from the substitutionary act of Christ exchanging his goodness and placing it upon us as He takes God the Father's wrath for our sin.

We are always good, and god is a turtle named Keith.

See, I can make all kinds of crazy assertions as well and not feel free to back them up with anything substantiative. My statement has just as much basis in reality as yours does.
 
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Dave Ellis

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Yes, but the decision to create the painbot as a thing that will only take beatings, and pain and torture or whatnot is still the subjective whim of the creator.

I dealt with this problem with the mathematician example in my post. It may be objectively true that your purpose in life is X, however whether that purpose is self imposed, or imposed externally, it's still a subjective opinion that X should be your purpose.

Presumably if you wanted to reprogram your painbot to be something else, as the creator you would have that ability. That means the externally imposed purpose still ultimately hinges on your subjective will.
 
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MennoSota

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We are always good, and god is a turtle named Keith.

See, I can make all kinds of crazy assertions as well and not feel free to back them up with anything substantiative. My statement has just as much basis in reality as yours does.
The Bible isn't made up, like your story.
Try again.
Yeshua, Jesus, makes all your silly comments laughable. He has shown his authority, but you foolishly consider a meaningless existence more rational than following the Sovereign King. So be it.
 
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MennoSota

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Except I'm not disagreeing with god's word, I'm disagreeing with you.

Unless you feel you speak directly for god?
You have shown nothing from God's word to prove your point. I have expressed God's word to you. I am an ambassador for the King (2 Corinthians 5).
You aren't arguing against me. You are arguing against what God has Sovereignly declared in the Bible. So be it.
 
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Dave Ellis

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If you can't find meaning in your own life because trillions of years from now the universe will experience heat death, I really don't know what to say to you... But that's an absolutely bizarre reason to not love life, and the people in it.
 
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