That's correct, whether you agree with his sense of morality has no bearing on whether morality exists without god.
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So morality is just getting what you want? Since Stalin wanted the aristocracy and intelligentsia dead, then he was doing what was moral for him correct?
You refuse to acknowledge that you are nothing more than molecules bonded together. What meaning is there in your existence, other than to have the molecular bond dissolve in just a short time from now?
You are displaying a God-given grasp of morality in this conversation.
Either acknowledge your Creator or admit you are meaningless.
It is God who gives you the understanding that rape is wrong. His moral law is within you, even if you refuse to acknowledge him in your life.
God has never given approval of rape.
God does let sinners sin, which is what those verses reveal. He is not obligated to act immediately upon our lawbreaking. If He did, we would all be in Hell at this moment and not conversing. Take that as an act of mercy on your behalf and repent before it's too late.
What a nihilistic worldview you have.Everything is meaningless without God. Do the molecules that bind people together care about rape or lying? Are they concerned if they form cancer cells?
Without God, any attempts at morality are mere illusions you create to define your own parameters. You live in your own matrix.
I'm sorry, but I don't subscribe to your nihilistic worldview. You think that everything must be imbued with theological significance or else it is meaningless. I don't think that....
Either acknowledge your Creator or admit you are meaningless.
How do you know what an improvement is or positive changes are?
Everything is meaningless without God. Do the molecules that bind people together care about rape or lying? Are they concerned if they form cancer cells?
You refuse to acknowledge that you are nothing more than molecules bonded together.
What meaning is there in your existence, other than to have the molecular bond dissolve in just a short time from now?
You are displaying a God-given grasp of morality in this conversation.
Yes, quite obviously he found it moral. And I guess, like with everybody else, his choice of actions involved the idea of a "greater good" - which means that not every action is its own end.Since Stalin wanted the aristocracy and intelligentsia dead, then he was doing what was moral for him correct?
Yeshua does not tell people to enslave others.
He does not stop evil humans from acting in evil ways. In fact, He uses sinners to bring His judgment and to weave His will.
God is Sovereign. He is not subject to your finite judgments and in fact, He laughs at you when you attempt to judge Him.
So morality is just getting what you want? Since Stalin wanted the aristocracy and intelligentsia dead, then he was doing what was moral for him correct?
Your ignorance and/or arrogance is humorous.There are places where it explicitly has god telling people to take slaves, or how they should treat their slaves. That is an endorsement of slavery.
If he has the power to stop immoral acts and fails to do so, that makes him negligent, and equally as immoral as the evil people in question.
If some being laughs at me because I call them immoral for condoning slavery, then that being has proven my point.
Coming from some who tries to mock a person's disbelief when you are clearly incompetent to navigate this discussion?Your ignorance and/or arrogance is humorous.
Your ignorance and/or arrogance is humorous.
being able to define and prove goodness has nothing do with whether or not people can be good without god. You had a moral system long before you believed in a god, you had beliefs about what was good before you believed in god. That now you have lost your own decision making ability by no means establishes that goodness doesn't exist with god, the only thing the god gives you is your decision making process.
There is no objective right or wrong without God. If you claim there is, provide it. All morality becomes subjective preference based on what particular species you like. I am not saying that your morality is no different from theirs only that the foundation is the same and you have no rationally objective basis for condemning them. Your basis is just subjective feelings for I assume all humans and their morality was subjective feelings for certain particular humans, ie "Aryans" and communists.dw: don't think you're any different than Hitler or Stalin yourself. You yourself think that without your god there is no right or wrong, you sound like a sociopath to me.
The reason atheists and everyone can be good without believing in the Christian God is that we were all created by Him and have a built in moral conscience which though distorted by our sinful nature is quite similar to His moral laws. How can a sense of morality come from an amoral process? How can the moral come from the amoral? I know you are going to say evolution but that just begs the question, it doesn't answer it. If God does not exist then objective goodness does not exist. All morality just becomes based on feelings and you cannot explain why your feelings are any better than Stalin's feelings. Other than the outcome would be a little different for a certain species known as homo sapiens, or at least for some homo sapiens but according to atheistic evolution there is nothing special about humans.
There is no objective right or wrong without God. If you claim there is, provide it. All morality becomes subjective preference based on what particular species you like. I am not saying that your morality is no different from theirs only that the foundation is the same and you have no rationally objective basis for condemning them. Your basis is just subjective feelings for I assume all humans and their morality was subjective feelings for certain particular humans, ie "Aryans" and communists.
The reason atheists and everyone can be good without believing in the Christian God is that we were all created by Him and have a built in moral conscience which though distorted by our sinful nature is quite similar to His moral laws. How can a sense of morality come from an amoral process? How can the moral come from the amoral? I know you are going to say evolution but that just begs the question, it doesn't answer it. If God does not exist then objective goodness does not exist. All morality just becomes based on feelings and you cannot explain why your feelings are any better than Stalin's feelings. Other than the outcome would be a little different for a certain species known as homo sapiens, or at least for some homo sapiens but according to atheistic evolution there is nothing special about humans.
There is no objective right or wrong without God. If you claim there is, provide it. All morality becomes subjective preference based on what particular species you like. I am not saying that your morality is no different from theirs only that the foundation is the same and you have no rationally objective basis for condemning them. Your basis is just subjective feelings for I assume all humans and their morality was subjective feelings for certain particular humans, ie "Aryans" and communists.
The reason atheists and everyone can be good without believing in the Christian God is that we were all created by Him and have a built in moral conscience which though distorted by our sinful nature is quite similar to His moral laws.
How can a sense of morality come from an amoral process? How can the moral come from the amoral? I know you are going to say evolution but that just begs the question, it doesn't answer it.
If God does not exist then objective goodness does not exist.
All morality just becomes based on feelings and you cannot explain why your feelings are any better than Stalin's feelings.
Other than the outcome would be a little different for a certain species known as homo sapiens, or at least for some homo sapiens but according to atheistic evolution there is nothing special about humans.
Your basis is just subjective feelings for I assume all humans and their morality was subjective feelings for certain particular humans, ie "Aryans" and communists.
There is no objective right or wrong with a God, either.There is no objective right or wrong without God.
Of course they are not God's moral law. They are laws under the Mosaic Covenant, which Israel was to use as a nation.1. Selling women as sex slaves, and governing their behaviour
Exodus 21:7-11 - When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.
2. Buying Hebrew male slaves, and the mechanism for keeping them permanently.
Exodus 21:2-6 - When you buy a Hebrew slave he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
3. Non-Hebrew slaves.
Leviticus 25:44-46 - As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.
4. Hereditary slaves.
Exodus 21:4 - If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her masters, and he shall go out alone
5. Physical abuse of slaves.
Exodus 21:20-21 - Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
As for the New Testament, there are multiple passages which essentially tell slaves to be obedient to their masters, and not once does it ever condemn the practice.
I think I've made my case. These are not moral teachings.
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