Can We Break Or Bend Bible Rules In Certain Situations?

Davidjayjordan · Nov 21, 2011

So back to the original question, should we break or bend the law in special circumstances..... I say the biblical answer repeated over and over again throughout the scriptures is NO.

Jesus never said to disobey His Voice or His Words or His Commandments or excuse ourselves from doing so.

jesus obeyed, and so we should obey and follow Him all the time to the ends of the world.

Mystery solved... Do not break or bend the laws of Jesus. Love Him with all your heart and love others and tell them about HIM. Give ALL, die daily, sacrifice all, and go to the ends of the world for HIM.

K2K · Nov 21, 2011

Davidjayjordan said:
I differ, as the Lord told us all to go into all the world and tell others about HIM. Those in our own neighbourhood, usually will not receive the message from us, if we have given all and have left everything for Him and are living totally by FAITH as He instructed us to do, people in other countries or neighborhoods listen to our message a whole lot more Ezekiel 2,3,4.

Obeying the law is obeying the commandments of Jesus. Jews can obey the old law if they choose to be Jewish and obey rabbi's and their Torah. But Christians, obey CHRIST IMO.

Rm 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not the oldness of the letter.

In the above verse we can see have been released from the Law. That is exchange for the newness of now getting our instructions from the Spirit. So we fulfill the Law by doing what the Spirit of God tells us and not by leaning on our understanding of the Law.

We must then understand that the Word of God which we now serve is not the Law but the Lord. I heard Benny Hinn once put it like this - "It is not thus said the Lord but thus saith the Lord. He is still saying today!"

We are not obeying the Law, we are obey the Lord who talks to us. So we are not saying 'the Lord told us', but rather 'the Lord told me'. So the person saying 'The Lord told us to go to the world, so pack up and go' is not telling people about the Lord!! They are leaning on their own understanding of what to do. If they knew the Lord as their Lord, they might say 'The Lord tells us to go to the world and preach' but never 'the Lord told us'. Jesus Christ (the Word) is not far off in heaven but in your mouth and in your heart.

So if you listen to Him, He will tell you to go here and do this, or go there and do that. Yet while the here of there will be parts of the wolrd, the here or there might be the local gas station or the local mall. It could be the other side of the world, but regardless of what part of the world He sends you to, it has to be Him sending you, not you going based upon your understanding of the Scriptures. And as for Ezekiel's Commision, did you not read, "Then He said to me, "Son of man, go to the house of Isreal and speak with My word to them" (Ez 3:4) and "but I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. (Ez3:6,7)

Mal 2:7,8 ... men should seek instructions from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. But as for you, you have turned aside from the way; you have caused many to stumble by the instructions

We are trying to listen to the One who comes in the name of the Lord, like David wrote, 'The Lord said to my Lord'. The Christ (Jesus) is and always has been the One who comes in the name of the Lord. He was the One talking to those who wrote the Old Testament and well as those who wrote the New Testament. We don't obey the Old or New testament, we study them but we obey the Lord Jesus Christ who talks to us.

It is not the ones in my neighborhood that don't necessarily listen to what I have to say. The people I find hardest to get through to are those considering themselves an expert on the Bible, but don't listen to the voice of the Lord. Jesus could make disciples in Judea by simply saying follow me, but making disciples from the Pharisees, who someone might think would be easy because they studied Scriptures so much was much more difficult. To do that He had to be raised from the cross and make Saul blind while on the road to Damascus.

By the way, faith comes from hearing. So if you are indeed living by faith you are living by listening to the Lord for your instructions. Some seem to think living by faith means living by what they think the Bible tells them to do instead of living by listening for the voice and instructions that come from the voice of the One who had the Bible written.

When you wake up in the morning, do you say 'good morning Lord' and hear a resonse from Him? Do you sometimes ask Him if you have to get up now or if you can sleep a little longer, and hear Him answer that question? I don't know about everyone, but for me His voice is usually my alarm clock. It's nice to have an alarm clock with such a still quite voice.

11822 · Nov 21, 2011

K2K said:
Rm 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not the oldness of the letter.

In the above verse we can see have been released from the Law. That is exchange for the newness of the Spirit.

We must then understand that the Word of God which we now serve is not the Law but the Lord. I heard Benny Hinn once put it like this - "It is not thus said the Lord but thus saith the Lord. He is still saying today!"

We are not obeying the Law, we are obey the Lord who talks to us. So we are not saying 'the Lord told us', but rather 'the Lord told me'. So the person saying 'The Lord told us to go to the world, so pack up and go' is not telling people about the Lord!! They are leaning on their own understanding of what to do. If they knew the Lord and their Lord, they might say 'The Lord tells us to go to the world and preach' but they don't tell people to pack up and go because they understand that is the job of their Lord.

If you listen to Him, He will tell you to go here and do this, or go there and do that, yet while the here of there will be parts of the wolrd, the here or there might be the local gas station or the local mall. It could be the other side of the world, but regardless of what part of the world He sends you to, it has to be Him sending you, not you going based upon your understanding of the Scriptures.

The Scirptures are not your Lord!! They are the book the Lord gave you. We study the Scriptures to helps us learn, but if you studied them at all didn't you see in them that we are to get out instructions from the Lord?

Mal 2:7,8 ... men should seek instructions from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. But as for you, you have turned aside from the way; you have caused many to stumble by the instructions

We are trying to listen to the One who comes in the name of the Lord, like David wrote, 'The Lord said to my Lord'. The Christ (Jesus) is and always has been the One who comes in the name of the Lord. He was the One talking to those who wrote the Old Testament and well as those who wrote the New Testament. We don't obey the Old or New testament, we study them but we obey the Lord Jesus Christ who talks to us.

It is not the ones in my neighborhood that don't necessarily listen to what I have to say. The people I find hardest to get through to are those considering themselves an expert on the Bible, but don't listen to the voice of the Lord. Jesus could make disciples from Judea by simply saying follow me, but making disciples from the Pharisees, who someone might think would be easy because they studied Scriptures so much was much more difficult. To do that He had to be raised from the cross and make Saul blind while on the road to Damascus.

By the way, faith comes from hearing. So if you are indeed living by faith you are living by listening to the Lord for your instructions. Some seem to think living by faith means living by what they think the Bible tells them to do instead of living by listening for the voice and instructions that come from the voice of the One who had the Bible written.

When you wake up in the morning, to you say 'good morning Lord' and hear a resonse from Him? Do you sometimes ask Him if you have to get up now or if you can sleep a little longer, and hear Him answer that question? I don't know about everyone, but for me His voice is usually my alarm clock. It's nice to have an alarm clock with such a still quite voice.

We obey the law of love and whatever is Gods will. It profits us nothing if have no love. And i assume that if we don't love God enough to submit to His will, it is the same.

SpiritPsalmist · Nov 21, 2011

Davidjayjordan said:
But that's not now it worked with the true Early Christians, after they got saved and filled, they were asked to join or wanted to join and then were expected to give up ALL and serve all the time for the Lord.

While the iron was hot, while salvation and liberation was ringing in their hearts and minds, they just joined by FAITH because Jesus saved them and they owed him EVERYTHING. It was not a little faith HERE and a little growth THERE, but BOOM and found the Lord and I am going to serve the MASTER with my whole life.

What are you talking about? You keep flip flopping all over the place like a fish in a boat...one minute you're here then the next you're there.

There is faith that brings one to God and they are born again. After one is born again, then there is growing and maturing in the faith.

We don't really know what took place in the hearts and minds of the early believers. Since they were people like us, I highly doubt that every single one of them took off like a bolt of lightning for Jesus, left all their belongings and ran off to foreign lands to preach the gospel.

I mean look at the letters to the believers in the early church. Why do you suppose letters had to be written about how to not sleep with your fathers wife and because this was happening, instructions on how to deal with it. How about the situation with Anenias and Saphira?

How about that letter written to women who kept bickering and the letter told how they needed to get along. How about that other letter where the older wiser women are told to train the younger women how to love their husbands, etc.. Would you dare to say they were not true believers because they continued to live their lives as usual, marrying, having children, going to church meetings and working for a living?

They were not being instructed to sell all their belonging and run off to other countries to tell everyone about Jesus. In fact, the only ones scripture routinely shows going to "other" place to preach are the disciples themselves. And while on their journeys they were writing letters to the churches "holding the fort" instructing them how to handle things that came up. Would you say they were not "true" believers? Were they not serving "all the time" just because they were not traveling and preaching the gospel to foreign people?

K2K · Nov 21, 2011

11822 said:
We obey the law of love and whatever is Gods will. It profits us nothing if have no love. And i assume that if we don't love God enough to submit to His will, it is the same.

Did we notice that God is Love, and that only God is good?

If you want Love in your life, listen to Him!

If you are submitting to His will for you, you must be hearing from Him. Yet if you are not hearing His voice are you submitting to His will or leaning on your own understanding?

Jesus said He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone will hear His voice and open the door He will come into them.

Are you hearing His voice or just reading His book?

We are preaching the the Word is near us, in our hearts and in our mouth. That Word is not the Bible but the Lord. If you know Jesus Christ personally as your Lord then you hear His small voice talking to you. Thank small voice is Love, but He does not think like you.

If you know Him you will get instructions from the small voice (The Word)within you. To one person He might tell them to go here, or to another He might say to go there.

If you don't know this and are leaning on your own understanding of the Scriptures, the Scriptures are you instruction and you think that in them you have eternal life. You are living by the Law as you understanding it and not by a personal relationship with the Lord. You don't know the Lord, only the Scriptures.

And there will be many that He will say to in that day, "I never knew you". Even those going to different parts of the world in His name and casting out demons, healing the sick, and prophecying in His name.

Davidjayjordan · Nov 21, 2011

SpiritPsalmist said:
Where does scripture teach that? As far as I know, it says that God has given each a measure of faith, but it does not say God has given each a different measure of faith. Jesus said all we need is faith like a grain of mustard seed. Our faith grows as we practice stepping out. That does not make one with faith that has grown from what they had in the beginning more highly esteemed than the one who is still at the size of a mustard seed. It does act as a faith builder though for the one who is still holding on without yet seeing the substance of the things they hope for.

Jesus said, good pure 100 per cent seeds that fall on good ground grow, as they give all their energy and strength to HIM, and therefore learn and grow their seeds to maturity. They do not bend and twist their strength into 10 per cent, one per cent strength.

The Lord's LAW remains true and we should not take away the message and obediance because we choose to say we do not have the faith for it. So be it, our choice, yet the 100 per cent seed still remains true. As the first and last Christians were and will always be 100 per centers.

That's said all over the gospels....

Davidjayjordan · Nov 21, 2011

K2K said:
Did we notice that God is Love, and that only God is good?

If you want Love in your life, listen to Him!

If you are submitting to His will for you, you must be hearing from Him. Yet if you are not hearing His voice are you submitting to His will or leaning on your own understanding?

Jesus said He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone will hear His voice and open the door He will come into them.

Are you hearing His voice or just reading His book?

We are preaching the the Word is near us, in our hearts and in our mouth. That Word is not the Bible but the Lord. If you know Jesus Christ personally as your Lord then you hear His small voice talking to you. Thank small voice is Love, but He does not think like you.

If you know Him you will get instructions from the small voice (The Word)within you. To one person He might tell them to go here, or to another He might say to go there.

If you don't know this and are leaning on your own understanding of the Scriptures, the Scriptures are you instruction and you think that in them you have eternal life. You are living by the Law as you understanding it and not by a personal relationship with the Lord. You don't know the Lord, only the Scriptures.

And there will be many that He will say to in that day, "I never knew you". Even those going to different parts of the world in His name and casting out demons, healing the sick, and prophecying in His name.

The Lord knows our hearts and motivations, and knows what He said and meant... Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel and give up everything before you do it.

That's called living by faith, going by faith.

We can do what we can, where we are, where we choose, but the first and last Christians have to give up all, to follow.

11822 · Nov 21, 2011

K2K said:
Did we notice that God is Love, and that only God is good?

If you want Love in your life, listen to Him!

If you are submitting to His will for you, you must be hearing from Him. Yet if you are not hearing His voice are you submitting to His will or leaning on your own understanding?

Jesus said He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone will hear His voice and open the door He will come into them.

Are you hearing His voice or just reading His book?

We are preaching the the Word is near us, in our hearts and in our mouth. That Word is not the Bible but the Lord. If you know Jesus Christ personally as your Lord then you hear His small voice talking to you. Thank small voice is Love, but He does not think like you.

If you know Him you will get instructions from the small voice (The Word)within you. To one person He might tell them to go here, or to another He might say to go there.

If you don't know this and are leaning on your own understanding of the Scriptures, the Scriptures are you instruction and you think that in them you have eternal life. You are living by the Law as you understanding it and not by a personal relationship with the Lord. You don't know the Lord, only the Scriptures.

And there will be many that He will say to in that day, "I never knew you". Even those going to different parts of the world in His name and casting out demons, healing the sick, and prophecying in His name.

I learn from the scriptures yes, but its not my own understanding, its Gods naturally because its His word. And i'm not living by the law alone, i live faith in Christ. Its God who makes me understand, and its faith in Jesus that compels me to obey the law. I know that i don't know everything, so i submit to the written word, God knows i don't know everything and he wants me to obey His written word, and love of course. And i didn't just fall of the back of the truck yesterday. I have know about love for quite some time. It takes prayer and patience, i must allow God to do His work in me. Just because I know about love doesn't mean i do always love as i should, when i don't automatically do what is right, then i submit to Gods Word. I think that God sees my effort, and is pleased. But i know by the Word that its God who does the work in me and not my own self.

Davidjayjordan · Nov 21, 2011

SpiritPsalmist said:
What are you talking about? You keep flip flopping all over the place like a fish in a boat...one minute you're here then the next you're there.

There is faith that brings one to God and they are born again. After one is born again, then there is growing and maturing in the faith.

We don't really know what took place in the hearts and minds of the early believers. Since they were people like us, I highly doubt that every single one of them took off like a bolt of lightning for Jesus, left all their belongings and ran off to foreign lands to preach the gospel.

I mean look at the letters to the believers in the early church. Why do you suppose letters had to be written about how to not sleep with your fathers wife and because this was happening, instructions on how to deal with it. How about the situation with Anenias and Saphira?

How about that letter written to women who kept bickering and the letter told how they needed to get along. How about that other letter where the older wiser women are told to train the younger women how to love their husbands, etc.. Would you dare to say they were not true believers because they continued to live their lives as usual, marrying, having children, going to church meetings and working for a living?

They were not being instructed to sell all their belonging and run off to other countries to tell everyone about Jesus. In fact, the only ones scripture routinely shows going to "other" place to preach are the disciples themselves. And while on their journeys they were writing letters to the churches "holding the fort" instructing them how to handle things that came up. Would you say they were not "true" believers? Were they not serving "all the time" just because they were not traveling and preaching the gospel to foreign people?

I differ, as we do know what went through the lives if the early Christians, as they obeyed 100 percent and obeyed the Great Commandment to love and so go into all the world because of their love for the Lord and for others.

That's not fishy, but consistent.

This same commandment applied to all new believers, in did not change afterwards for those in foreign lands.

Their hearts being the same as ours, no diffetrence. Their resistance to giving all was the same, their faith in giving all, was also the same after they got saved. No difference.

The Lord's law and commandment has not changed. If people want to give a little so be it. if they choose to witness at home, so be it. But the law and commandment stay the same.

The Lord knows HIS OWN, and to truly learn what He was and is talking about, it all makes sense, bot when you are studying words on the homefront but experiencing on the battlefield.

If any man will do His WILL, he will know of the doctrine.

To learn we have to do.... and obey.

Davidjayjordan · Nov 21, 2011

K2K said:
Rm 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not the oldness of the letter.

In the above verse we can see have been released from the Law. That is exchange for the newness of now getting our instructions from the Spirit. So we fulfill the Law by doing what the Spirit of God tells us and not by leaning on our understanding of the Law.

We must then understand that the Word of God which we now serve is not the Law but the Lord. I heard Benny Hinn once put it like this - "It is not thus said the Lord but thus saith the Lord. He is still saying today!"

We are not obeying the Law, we are obey the Lord who talks to us. So we are not saying 'the Lord told us', but rather 'the Lord told me'. So the person saying 'The Lord told us to go to the world, so pack up and go' is not telling people about the Lord!! They are leaning on their own understanding of what to do. If they knew the Lord as their Lord, they might say 'The Lord tells us to go to the world and preach' but never 'the Lord told us'. Jesus Christ (the Word) is not far off in heaven but in your mouth and in your heart.

So if you listen to Him, He will tell you to go here and do this, or go there and do that. Yet while the here of there will be parts of the wolrd, the here or there might be the local gas station or the local mall. It could be the other side of the world, but regardless of what part of the world He sends you to, it has to be Him sending you, not you going based upon your understanding of the Scriptures. And as for Ezekiel's Commision, did you not read, "Then He said to me, "Son of man, go to the house of Isreal and speak with My word to them" (Ez 3:4) and "but I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. (Ez3:6,7)

Mal 2:7,8 ... men should seek instructions from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. But as for you, you have turned aside from the way; you have caused many to stumble by the instructions

We are trying to listen to the One who comes in the name of the Lord, like David wrote, 'The Lord said to my Lord'. The Christ (Jesus) is and always has been the One who comes in the name of the Lord. He was the One talking to those who wrote the Old Testament and well as those who wrote the New Testament. We don't obey the Old or New testament, we study them but we obey the Lord Jesus Christ who talks to us.

It is not the ones in my neighborhood that don't necessarily listen to what I have to say. The people I find hardest to get through to are those considering themselves an expert on the Bible, but don't listen to the voice of the Lord. Jesus could make disciples in Judea by simply saying follow me, but making disciples from the Pharisees, who someone might think would be easy because they studied Scriptures so much was much more difficult. To do that He had to be raised from the cross and make Saul blind while on the road to Damascus.

By the way, faith comes from hearing. So if you are indeed living by faith you are living by listening to the Lord for your instructions. Some seem to think living by faith means living by what they think the Bible tells them to do instead of living by listening for the voice and instructions that come from the voice of the One who had the Bible written.

When you wake up in the morning, do you say 'good morning Lord' and hear a resonse from Him? Do you sometimes ask Him if you have to get up now or if you can sleep a little longer, and hear Him answer that question? I don't know about everyone, but for me His voice is usually my alarm clock. It's nice to have an alarm clock with such a still quite voice.

Pretty cool, Yes, we have the general instructions, and must obey the Lord and to do so we have to HEAR from the Lord. We are responsible not to be robots in complying to old testament law but to the New Testament VOICE of the Lord in how we are going to go to all the world and get out the gospel.

Ha... having the Spirit doesn;t make us speak in foreign tongues as that doesn;t win anyone, but like our brothers and sisters before, we can by the Spirit know all languages and learn how to tell them about the Lord.

We tell them about JESUS and not about the law that condemns them and which they can never fulfill.

SpiritPsalmist · Nov 21, 2011

Davidjayjordan said:
I differ, as we do know what went through the lives if the early Christians, as they obeyed 100 percent and obeyed the Great Commandment to love and so go into all the world because of their love for the Lord and for others.

That's not fishy, but consistent.

This same commandment applied to all new believers, in did not change afterwards for those in foreign lands.

Their hearts being the same as ours, no diffetrence. Their resistance to giving all was the same, their faith in giving all, was also the same after they got saved. No difference.

The Lord's law and commandment has not changed. If people want to give a little so be it. if they choose to witness at home, so be it. But the law and commandment stay the same.

The Lord knows HIS OWN, and to truly learn what He was and is talking about, it all makes sense, bot when you are studying words on the homefront but experiencing on the battlefield.

If any man will do His WILL, he will know of the doctrine.

To learn we have to do.... and obey.

You obviously have not read the New Testament and taken notice of the people that actually lived it out. You seem to have put them on pedestals. Did you just read the ink on the paper and not actually understood what was going on? Are you really as perfect in your faith as you are trying to convince us? If you can't answer what I have asked, instead of going somewhere out in space not answering at all then don't. You also obviously did not understand my use of a "fish flip flopping".

I understand the Lord and what HE says and I know that no one else has the right or place to judge me or anyone else. Because you try, only shows who you are really understanding and following. What you say you understand differs hugely with what the scriptures actually say. That is proof that even you do not follow ALL of God's commandS.

You might honestly mean well, but the method you're using is ineffective and very different from what scripture tells us....just saying. You don't personally know any of us just as we personally do not know you.

I'll excuse myself from this conversation now. It's become totally different from the OP. It's become pointless.

Davidjayjordan · Nov 21, 2011

SpiritPsalmist said:
You obviously have not read the New Testament and taken notice of the people that actually lived it out. You seem to have put them on pedestals. Did you just read the ink on the paper and not actually understood what was going on? Are you really as perfect in your faith as you are trying to convince us? If you can't answer what I have asked, instead of going somewhere out in space not answering at all then don't. You also obviously did not understand my use of a "fish flip flopping".

I understand the Lord and what HE says and I know that no one else has the right or place to judge me or anyone else. Because you try, only shows who you are really understanding and following. What you say you understand differs hugely with what the scriptures actually say. That is proof that even you do not follow ALL of God's commandS.

You might honestly mean well, but the method you're using is ineffective and very different from what scripture tells us....just saying. You don't personally know any of us just as we personally do not know you.

I'll excuse myself from this conversation now. It's become totally different from the OP. It's become pointless.

I have read the whole New Testament and especially ACTS.... and been a full ftime missionary for the Lord. So please reframe from saying differently or that I can not read. Do reframe from judging.

As for perfect, NO, but the standard is giving ALL. and it does not mean we are suppose to obey out dated laws of the old old old old Testament... as they are partial and hardly 100 percent for Christians. Jesus gave us the law of full time service.... and yet again we ALL fall short, so what. It makes us humble and more indebted to HIM and more inclined to trust HIM fully and pick urselves up again and love again and serve again.

Whereas law obeyers of the old law, start thinking they are righteous, they get harder and harder in self righteousness, whereas we that follow the Lord, just keep plugging along, from failure to failure, but giving all...... in his LOVE.

Following humbly, is a whole lot different than obeying laws and thinking we are fulfilling laws, and becoming god like. NO we will never be righteousness.

But YES, we have answered the question as far as I am concerned, we should not bend or twist the Lord's commandments of going into all the world and preaching HIM and not our own self righteousness or the name of a church etc.. or Western nationalism etc.....

Lets not bend and twist the Lord's commandments.

TasManOfGod · Nov 21, 2011

As God said "don't do tats" dont you think we ought to advise that to fellow believers or should we not "fear" God on this issue

Davidjayjordan · Nov 21, 2011

.....

SpiritPsalmist · Nov 22, 2011

I do apologize for my lack of patience with your comments. When I first responded to you it was on a comment where you said that it was God who gave different levels of faith to each person. Therefore, making it God's fault that some people have "little faith" and others have "great faith". Then you respond to me with something about the 100% faith and dedication of the early church believers and charging that everyone in the whole world is to sell their stuff and go off to another country to be a full time missionary. I did/do not see the correlation between the two. In my mind you did not respond to my first comment but instead flip flopped on to another.

Davidjayjordan said:
I have read the whole New Testament and especially ACTS.... and been a full ftime missionary for the Lord. So please reframe from saying differently or that I can not read. Do reframe from judging.

I said what I said because you did not respond to my comments about the problem with the early church and the reason for the letters that were written to the churches. Letters telling them how to get along, how it was sin for a man to sleep with his fathers wife, what happened when a couple tried to lie about how much money they had given to the church, etc.. You did not respond to the fact that many of the early church believers did not leave and go off to Rome or Patmos, or wherever with the other disciples. They were missionarys in their own neighborhoods. You came back with something about me being incorrect, that every one of them sold what they owned and went off to another country to share the gospel...which is why I said you must not have really read the NT because that is nowhere in there. It shows the disciples going but there was a church, in each city that had people in it that supplied food and money to the disciples when they would return from one of their journeys.

Davidjayjordan said:
As for perfect, NO, but the standard is giving ALL. and it does not mean we are suppose to obey out dated laws of the old old old old Testament... as they are partial and hardly 100 percent for Christians. Jesus gave us the law of full time service.... and yet again we ALL fall short, so what. It makes us humble and more indebted to HIM and more inclined to trust HIM fully and pick urselves up again and love again and serve again.

I agree that we are to give all. Outdated laws????? No idea what you're talking about. God says His laws are FOREVER! Forever leaves no room for becoming outdated. However the point is that we are to obey God. Period. I don't know that I agree that we all fall short of being in full time service. We are in full time service whether we fall or not. I am a full time missionary. I have been overseas and I have traveled to other parts of the US. I consider any believer, wherever they are at to be in full time missionary service. In relation to Europe the US is a foreign country and right now I'm in full missionary service here. My time of serving God takes no lapse. And it takes no lapse in anybody else life either. We either serve or we don't.

Davidjayjordan said:
Whereas law obeyers of the old law, start thinking they are righteous, they get harder and harder in self righteousness, whereas we that follow the Lord, just keep plugging along, from failure to failure, but giving all...... in his LOVE.

Have no clue what you are talking about here. I follow the Lord but I continue to follow HIM to the best of my ability and my faith keeps growing and I continue to mature in HIM.

So what is the disagreement here?

Davidjayjordan said:
Following humbly, is a whole lot different than obeying laws and thinking we are fulfilling laws, and becoming god like. NO we will never be righteousness.

Hebrews 11 gives a list of people who GOD called righteous simply because they believed, trusted, and obeyed. So I disagree that we will never be righteous. Whoever is in Christ is righteous.

Davidjayjordan said:
But YES, we have answered the question as far as I am concerned, we should not bend or twist the Lord's commandments of going into all the world and preaching HIM and not our own self righteousness or the name of a church etc.. or Western nationalism etc.....

Lets not bend and twist the Lord's commandments.

I agree. God's word is the answer. Without all the bends and twists that the modern church has made it.

mrhappy3 · Nov 22, 2011

OK folks - back to your corners - I will give a standing count otherwise.

PRAISE THE LORD FOR DEBATE !

Davidjayjordan · Nov 22, 2011

SpiritPsalmist said:
I do apologize for my lack of patience with your comments. When I first responded to you it was on a comment where you said that it was God who gave different levels of faith to each person. Therefore, making it God's fault that some people have "little faith" and others have "great faith". Then you respond to me with something about the 100% faith and dedication of the early church believers and charging that everyone in the whole world is to sell their stuff and go off to another country to be a full time missionary. I did/do not see the correlation between the two. In my mind you did not respond to my first comment but instead flip flopped on to another.

NO I never said, God gives different levels of Faith to each person. The FAITH is there to be 100 per cent like the EARLY CHRISTIANS, it is churches that need their people to be part timers for their donations, that tell people to stay home and not serve the Lord, as the church is suppose to do that for them.

I said what I said because you did not respond to my comments about the problem with the early church and the reason for the letters that were written to the churches. Letters telling them how to get along, how it was sin for a man to sleep with his fathers wife, what happened when a couple tried to lie about how much money they had given to the church, etc.. You did not respond to the fact that many of the early church believers did not leave and go off to Rome or Patmos, or wherever with the other disciples.

(Yes, you commented about Annias and saphira, and I used it properly to show the Lord wants 100 per cent disciples, NOT pretenders. A perfect example for what I am trying to get across HERE)

They were missionarys in their own neighborhoods. (No they weren;t, they lived together, and served together full time. The Early Church was not part timers, but gave up all and shared all)

You came back with something about me being incorrect, (Exactly) that every one of them sold what they owned and went off to another country to share the gospel...which is why I said you must not have really read the NT because that is nowhere in there. It shows the disciples going but there was a church, in each city that had people in it that supplied food and money to the disciples when they would return from one of their journeys. (No all were expected to witness and do what they choose, sadly even the Early Christians in Jerusalem were forced out by the Lord after the death of Stephen, their enemies were allowed to persecute them to get them off their comfort zone and into obeying.... when you serve the Lord, THEN it all starts to make sense, not when you try to fit it into a nice comfort zone of playing church part time)

I agree that we are to give all. (Amen, then to flow with the spirit, and obey the Lord's SPIRIT, we can not be tied down to one place) Outdated laws????? (Exactly as Christ's LAWS are more comprehensive and covers every area of our life and are not superficial and partial and so easily circumvented as with scribe and pharisee observation... Raed Mathew)

No idea what you're talking about. God says His laws are FOREVER! (No, the old etstament newbie superficial laws are not forver. Tithing is not for full timers,... Giving all is for full timers.... do be consistant..... if people choose to give a little so be it, their choice, but hardly what is deserving of the Lord giving ALL to any of us)

Forever leaves no room for becoming outdated. (Exactly as the Lord's commandments are forever, not the old testament past tense self righteous laws that can never be fulfilled and which take the Lord's SPIRIT to fulfill. It takes the Lord not our selves to fulfill the true law of the Lord of giving ALL.)

However the point is that we are to obey God. (I think you mean Jesus.. His LAWS are paramount and superceed all the parital laws of the newbies. Remember this is a CHRISTian Forum)

Period. I don't know that I agree that we all fall short of being in full time service. We are in full time service whether we fall or not. I am a full time missionary. I have been overseas and I have traveled to other parts of the US. I consider any believer, wherever they are at to be in full time missionary service. (OK I differ, as I know I can do more than what I have done,,,,, and it convicts me to do more because of His LOVE, This even though I have been a full time missionary since graduating from University. Sure we are believers but as believers we do not feel self satisfied when there are so many more to be reached by His love and freedom from false laws. The law is that they need the Lord.)

In relation to Europe the US is a foreign country and right now I'm in full missionary service here. (That's for sure as 3rd world missionaries are needed to evangelise the West... but its a hard hard hard field... and very ingodly, especially their supposedly godfly ones. But then again as the Lord says, which prophet or missionary is accepted in his own country. He encourages us to go abroad rather than stay at home. But there are exceptions and thats where the Spirit comes in, we each are responsible for our decisions)

Hebrews 11 gives a list of people who GOD called righteous simply because they believed, trusted, and obeyed. So I disagree that we will never be righteous. Whoever is in Christ is righteous.
I agree. God's word is the answer. Without all the bends and twists that the modern church has made it.

(AGREED)

Davidjayjordan · Nov 22, 2011

mrhappy3 said:
OK folks - back to your corners - I will give a standing count otherwise.

PRAISE THE LORD FOR DEBATE !

Yes back to the topic, Can we bend or twist Bible laws.

I say, the Lord's absolute 100 per cent laws... NO

I would suggest that YES, like the Lord in His Life HERE, we can definitely violate or break the partial laws of the old old old testament when the Lord quides us to obey His LAW.

SpiritPsalmist · Nov 22, 2011

Davidjayjordan said:
(AGREED)

Are you "Jesus Only"? I guess that would explain a lot of where your theology comes from. It's certainly not the Scriptures that the disciples and early church adhered to.

Do you believe that Jesus is God?

Do you believe the Son came to destroy what the Father did?

Do you believe the Son has more authority than the Father?

Do you believe the Father and the Son are ONE?

I'll leave now.

* As a note for those who might be confused as to the way I was quoted in my previous post....the parts in red are not mine.

Davidjayjordan · Nov 23, 2011

SpiritPsalmist said:
Are you "Jesus Only"? I guess that would explain a lot of where your theology comes from. It's certainly not the Scriptures that the disciples and early church adhered to.

Do you believe that Jesus is God?

Do you believe the Son came to destroy what the Father did?

Do you believe the Son has more authority than the Father?

Do you believe the Father and the Son are ONE?

I'll leave now.

* As a note for those who might be confused as to the way I was quoted in my previous post....the parts in red are not mine.

This topic is not about me..... but about bending and twisting bible laws

Can we bend or twist Bible laws.

I say, the Lord's absolute 100 per cent laws... NO

I would suggest that YES, like the Lord in His Life HERE, we can definitely violate or break the partial laws of the old old old testament when the Lord quides us to obey His LAW.

Can anyone differ with this CHRISTIAN VIEWPOINT described in full in ACTS and the GOSPELS.

Please feel free to do so..... otherwise it would appear, it is confirmed, we shouldn;t twist and bend, but rather give our whole 100 per cent lives as did the EARLY CHRISTIANS

Can We Break Or Bend Bible Rules In Certain Situations?

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