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I don't need to read your mind. I just need to be able to use logic.
Clearly it is silly to think logic tells you what I would do in a given situation when you don't know me.
What you really mean is that your logic tells you would do in a given situation. So, just because you would act immorally if God didn't carry a big stick doesn't mean everyone would.
According to you...
I don't need to read your mind. I just need to be able to use logic.
And several billion other people throughout history.
And several billion other people throughout history.
What in the blue hell do you think you're talking about?
The premise is yours, remember? You said Christian morality is not about adhering to a code. Do you mean to say you don't accept your own premise? Or do you mean to say it is possible to categorically identify 'sinful' acts and behaviors without having a moral code?
Well read Christians know exactly what I mean (We often answer from scripture).
Here's some 'blue' fer ya.
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." (2 Corinthians 3:6)
We're basically talking about two entirely different moralities. God's vs man's. It's hard to describe God's morality to someone who doesn't believe in God; it's 'foolishness' to you, which of course proves scripture.
I just read of a perfect example of man's morality. A young man was convicted of murder and sentenced to 55 years in prison. He didn't commit murder. He was one of four burglars that were fired upon by the home owner, who killed one of them. Because 'someone' was killed during the event all of the other burglars were convicted of murder.
This is a perfect example of the logic and morality of man (it's almost as bad as putting those damned flower gardens in the middle of intersections (I just laugh).
. And for rules to be sacred they have to be believed in as absolute and not just the codifying of the desires of men in a social contract. They have to be at least as authoritative (and independent of human desire) as the laws of physics and mathematics. Things that are unquestionably true about the nature of the universe itself.
Anything less and they are contrivances built on sand and to be worked around if at all possible so long as you don't get caught and you don't rock the boat in doing so. And thus are not morals.
We're basically talking about two entirely different moralities. God's vs man's. It's hard to describe God's morality to someone who doesn't believe in God; it's 'foolishness' to you, which of course proves scripture.
We're basically talking about two entirely different moralities. God's vs man's.
It's hard to describe God's morality
Why not take a stab at describing god's morality to us instead of just discounting everyone without trying? I think you'd be surprised at just how many things we can understand without actually believing in them.
It's hard to describe God's morality because it's so hard to demonstrate in an evil world. In fact your question is best answered by this event.
"And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them." (Mark 6:1-5 KJV)
Why not take a stab at describing god's morality to us instead of just discounting everyone without trying? I think you'd be surprised at just how many things we can understand without actually believing in them.
God's morality would be, 'Thou shalt not kill.'
God's morality would be, 'Thou shalt not kill.'
Man's morality would be that killing people is wrong unless it is done in the interest of the greater good of society. ie War, abortion or whatever other LEGAL reason it is justified by.
One is cut and dried and the other is capricious.
I mean this in all sincerity....
That passage doesn't tell us a lot about what's morally good and bad.
Are you sure you quoted the right passage?
Well the problem with "cut and dry" would be....what if someone is trying to kill me? What if I can't get away? Should I just let them kill me since god doesn't want me to kill?
Even granting your god's existence, and the assertion that he has made moral decrees, and the assertion that the Bible accurately represents his moral decrees, your holy book has this same god character breaking this decree all the time, and explicitly commanding people to break it. So no, far from being 'cut and dried', it's entirely subject to his whims.
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