Can there be Christian Unity?

There can and is unity. The early church was united. Though they had a diversity of beliefs.

Then again, the early church leaders where awesome and preferred to rationalize rather than dogmatize.

1Mind1Spirit said:

Paul was speaking to the Corinthians about saying I am of Apollos, I am of Peter, I am of Paul. Not anything to do with, the worlds view vs. God's view.

Click to expand...

He was there but I was thinking of Jesus NT taching in John.

Why would you try to make excuses to hold on to your denomination, rather than repent?

Click to expand...

The denomination is just a church basically, one can still repent whatever earthly church organisation.

rturner76 said:

I have been going through these threads looking for fellowship and finding so much debate.....

Arminian/Calvinian Believer's Baptism/Infant Baptism Some have 5 sacraments some 2 Real presence/symbolic presence.

All these issues and many others divide us, Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant. So much so that some would say to the other that their's is a heretical brand of Christianity and even an invalid or unsupported view of Christianity.

Is there nothing we can do about this? Is there a way a group of Christians can decide to agree on a group of teachings or "doctrines" that we ALL may follow?

As Christians, under what banner may we unify to say "We are all Christians and we ALL stand for.....

I grew up a Methodist, it was what I was taught, it's what I know, it "feels" right to me. SO many would have a problem with what that stands for but I love it. What do you love and what can we all unite under? Anything? Anybody? Let's talk, not debate, but TALK about it

Click to expand...

Christians have already united. The unity name is "Christian".
Other than that, why should Christians be "more" united as they are now?

I agree division exist on certain levels. I saw much of it growing up baptist, mostly between Ind. Fundy vs. Southern. Obvious I saw much talk in both against doctrines of other faiths.

Politics played a great role as denominations were created. Many factors come into play in education, wealth, location, culture, etc.. People that are of same mind usually find each other. Everyone has the need to feel right, which often comes about by making others look wrong.

I'm not convinced that absolute unity is a good thing. If we were united on everything, then that would mean that we'd be united on error, too.

For instance, how could we be united with Catholics without also embracing such ideas as infused righteousness, salvation by works, Purgatory, etc?

even though we take our theology seriously, we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously. theology is important, but our capacity to know understand (and disagree) is limited.

fellowship is important and love is important within the body of Christ. that much is certain and always had been. why would i put what i don't know before that which i do know most certainly?

daniel777 said:

even though we take our theology seriously, we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously. theology is important, but our capacity to know understand (and disagree) is limited.

fellowship is important and love is important within the body of Christ. that much is certain and always had been. why would i put what i don't know before that which i do know most certainly?

Click to expand...

Go go further than what you said, diversity may be a good thing.
I develop my part of theology and you develop your part. I heard that there are probably 35,000 Christian denominations. It is amazing to know that it is possible to have so many elaborations on Christianity while maintaining the same core value.

juvenissun said:

Go go further than what you said, diversity may be a good thing.
I develop my part of theology and you develop your part. I heard that there are probably 35,000 Christian denominations. It is amazing to know that it is possible to have so many elaborations on Christianity while maintaining the same core value.

Click to expand...

Perhaps you can tell me what your core value is.
And if it is Christ. Then tell me where he said to split it up 35,000 ways.
The question was, "can there be unity?"
The answer is yes.
Every small town in the world could have just one church.
Every nieghborhood in a city could have one.
The more important questions are:Will you? and if not Why?:o

What do you mean by unity? In principle I agree with one of the previous comments that our unity is in Christ. As far as I can see, in the NT there are a number of separate churches. They all honored Paul or some other founder, but there was no single leader in Rome or Jerusalem.

The more liberal churches went through this a few decades ago. We have sufficient doctrinal agreement that actual union would have been possible. Painful, as we'd have to agree upon a single way of organizing, but Canada and some other countries have done it. However most people didn't think it was worth doing. We already have intercommunion (although it's not always official), we regard ourselves as equally Christian, and local churches typically cooperate on things where it matters. I think that's sufficient.

If you look at the broader spectrum, I don't think organizational boundaries are that much of an issue anymore among Protestants. In the 19th Cent you denominations arguing with each other over who is the true Church. That no longer happens, except with Catholics and Orthodox, who for the moment I think are hopeless as far as Christian unity. Our main issue now is probably doctrinal disagreements, things like liberal, conservative, Pentecostal. Once you get outside the mainline denominations, you start seeing groups that won't have communion with others, which I consider a problem. But that's mostly caused by those disagreements. I just don't see how we can go much further as long as we have them. Nor do I see much hope of getting over them quickly.

I will say that if you watch things over centuries, I see progress. The Reformation created a problem. The Catholic Church had depended upon getting the State to kill dissenters. So once that stopped there was no way to deal with dissent. And the tradition inherited by Protestants from the Catholic Church said that there could be only one True Church, which had to have the same theology in detail, and not tolerate much in the way of variation. That model failed miserably in the new circumstances.

So once the State was no longer willing to enforce church unity, things kind of exploded. I believe it reached its worst in the 19th Cent. Since then, we've started seeing some improvements. The evangelical movement has unified a lot of the conservative side of Christianity. And they have some common statements such as the NAE statement and the Chicago statement on inerrancy. The mainline churches have largely buried the hatchet as well. My sense is that informally at least, we're going to see Protestants slowly collect into a half dozen or so groups that mostly recognize everyone else in that group as brothers, even if they're in different denominations. Getting those to unify is going to be harder.

One possibility is the evangelical movement. It has been slowly getting more liberal. The more liberal end of evangelicalism is now indistinguishable from the mainline doctrinally, but it retains its interest in spreading the Gospel. (So does the mainline, in theory. Our churches just mostly won't do what they need to to make it happen. They're not dead. There's lots of good Christian stuff going on. But there are specific things you need to do to grow, and for some reason most of the mainline won't do it.) I suspect that the mainline will continue shrinking, and will eventually just collapse into the liberal end of evangelicalism. That leaves us with a possibility that there will be a very large common core of Protestantism that's basically today's evangelicalism, with at least part of it more liberal. Whether it will be able to retain any coherence with such a large spectrum of belief is less clear though. I think there's a good chance of a split within evangelicalism. Probably driven by homosexuality. Yuck.

juvenissun said:

Go go further than what you said, diversity may be a good thing.
I develop my part of theology and you develop your part. I heard that there are probably 35,000 Christian denominations. It is amazing to know that it is possible to have so many elaborations on Christianity while maintaining the same core value.

Click to expand...

There arent 35,000 demioninations, most variances are not denominations but other minitries/churches etc.

There is already unity in the church, through faith. I see it in Roman Catholics, Baptists, Anglicans, Lutherans, Eastern Orthodox, AOG, Elim, Vinyard, Hillsongs etc etc.
Its not one church or denomination that makes unity but unity in the spirit and the word.
Diversity is all well and good, provided its in the spirit and according to the word. But we are in times where there is not only still disputes over 'disputable matters' as the NT describes, but also departure to another Jesus, and false teaching where stuff entirely contrary to the word is forcing itself upon believers. ironically the false doctrines major on the idea of unity.

Plainly put, denominations are carnal.
Therefore enimies of God.
I live near a town with 500 people. There are 5 denominations in it.
It would be interesting to know how many of the 500 even go to church.
If there was one church it would be a no brainer.
All the people of the town would know thier brethren, they would know who is poor and in need of help. Sinners would see a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
The way things are now, they are simply man made organizations, practicing lip service.
Only the Sunday school teachers, teaching children that there is a Jesus, are actually doing any good.But when it's time for strong meat, the children will only be offered a bottle of teeth rotting milk.
The time is here that Paul spoke of in II Timothy.
They have heaped to themselves teachers (aka denominations) and cannot withstand sound doctrine.

I believe there can be Christian unity if people stop embracing false doctrine and start embracing true doctrine. Will that ever happen though? I doubt it.

Ave Maria said:

I believe there can be Christian unity if people stop embracing false doctrine and start embracing true doctrine. Will that ever happen though? I doubt it.

Click to expand...

That is, the only way to have unity is for everyone to agree with me. We need a better approach.

A few years ago, I was roofing next to a house where they were meeting till thier new church was built.
I'm an ole long hair. So one of the guys wandered over. Maybe to convert me? I gotta tell yuh, I love it when babies come toddlin' up to get thier first taste of meat.
Anyway come to find out, these people had been going to a baptist church. The guy said, they were tired of goin' to church where the ole people in it were all dead heads and nothin' ever happened.
So one of em had went to bible college, (southern baptist) it was his house they were meetin' at and he was to be thier preacher.
I ask him what they were gonna call this new church. He gave me some name to do with the southern baptist.
So I ask him, why dont you call it the church at ( name of town)?
He said," we wouldn't want to call it something we are not."
So I said, " yep, I can see that."
" I gotta finish this roof now, so you have a nice day."
Hence the saying came to pass: and outta thier own mouths will they condemn themselves.:o

rturner76 said:

I'm sure you're right. Is it sad or just life and I need to deal with it and move on? In the beginning there was 1 church and 1 way to interpret things. What happened?

Click to expand...

Ah, the good old days. Actually, there were multiple churches with many divisions. I suppose they were unified at least in that they could ask the original apostles, and that they were all persecuted.

Bubblies said:

Love

Click to expand...

Indeed, Christians are united in their love for one another...
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”


11 For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters,[b] if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.


...and in that the world hates them.
18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

rturner76 said:

I have been going through these threads looking for fellowship and finding so much debate.....

Arminian/Calvinian Believer's Baptism/Infant Baptism Some have 5 sacraments some 2 Real presence/symbolic presence.

All these issues and many others divide us, Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant. So much so that some would say to the other that their's is a heretical brand of Christianity and even an invalid or unsupported view of Christianity.

Is there nothing we can do about this? Is there a way a group of Christians can decide to agree on a group of teachings or "doctrines" that we ALL may follow?

Click to expand...

Perhaps our approach is wrong. There is absolutely no way that all the various Christian denominations will ever agree on doctrines, rituals, sacraments, etc. But is that really necessary? Must everyone believe and worship in exactly the same way? Are we seeking unity, or just uniformity?

Did Jesus teach that we must all conform to the same long list of beliefs and doctrines? Did Jesus give us a church organization or did He give us a new way of life, a different and much better way of relating to God and to one another?

And the early church was not "one" in the sense of all Christian communities using the exact same rituals, having the same type of organization, or even believing the same things. People didn't "belong" to the Christian or Catholic church; they were Christians who belonged to the church at Corinth, or at Antioch, or at Alexandria. So that is not a good model for a "uniform" church, but it is for a "united" church, since they were united in their focus on the Realm of God, despite any other differences.

So when we talk about unity, we need to consider what that means. Can a Catholic be united with a Lutheran, a Baptist with a Methodist? If we look beyond doctrines and rituals and instead at the meaning of what Jesus taught and did, the answer is YES.

John chap 4 verses 23, 24
23) But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true woshippers, shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24) God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.

SPIRIT, denominations are carnal, and cannot have the spirit of God.
For the carnal are enemies of God.
TRUTH,The carnal cannot understand the things of God, therefore the truth is not in them.

Here's three commandments of our Lord for when the whole church be come together.
Speaking in tongues , by two or at the most three, and let one interpret. If no interpreter, keep silent in the church.
Prophets, speak two or three and let the other judge. If anything is revealed to a man that is sitting, the first ones shut up and listen.
Women are not permitted to speak in the church. It is a shame for them to speak in the church.

If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that these things are the commandments of the Lord.


These would be a fine start, dont yuh think?

There is an overall hopeful tone to this thread, which is nice.

There does remain, though, an undeniable feeling in the Church that we are a fragmented and broken body. It seems to me that shared purpose and trials tend to bring people together across their usual lines, so is it possible that much of this feeling of disunity comes from a dearth of shared ventures among the various churches? For example, inter-congregational ventures into sports, the arts, education, outdoor activities, etc? I know these things happen, but it seems to me they could be done better and more often. From many of the sermons I've heard, it seems that much of the Church has just accepted the superiority of the secular world in many of these things. This is then affirmed when those who are bold enough to attempt such ventures always seem to be confined by the awkward restraint and hesitancy that comes with an emotionally disconnected state.

Please forgive if I'm overreaching or presuming... I know my experience is limited, but this is what I see. Really, what I'm saying is, why not? Why couldn't we the Church be, as an example, the leading patrons of the arts?