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Can someone clarify?

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Lee Fey

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Look, there has been a lot of stuff pertaining to covenants that I've thought about and noticed. I've heard of the different covenants: Noahide, Abrahamic, Mosaic and the New Covenant with Jesus. Can someone try and explain those different covenants to me.

Finally, can someone try and explain why it's covenants that God has chosen to relate to humanity? What makes them so important?
 
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Lee Fey

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My understanding of covenants is as such: the Noahide covenant is really a restatement of the Adamite covenant, and applies to all mankind. The Abrahamic covenant applies to his descendants, of Isaac and of Ishmael. The Mosaic covenant only applies to the children of Israel, and finally, the New Covenant through Jesus Christ applies, not through blood, but through faith, His church and everyone who would believe in Him.

My question though, is why God chose the concept of the covenant to relate to humanity, and whether or not I'm right about my classifications in the scope of these covenants. Oh, and can someone help explain what the official doctrine of these covenants are? I've researched the Noahide covenant, and supposedly there are seven laws from that covenant, but half of them seem to come out of Acts 15. I don't know. Help me, please.
 
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heymikey80

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Look, there has been a lot of stuff pertaining to covenants that I've thought about and noticed. I've heard of the different covenants: Noahide, Abrahamic, Mosaic and the New Covenant with Jesus. Can someone try and explain those different covenants to me.
Covenants are contracts of relationship between God and men. In many God expresses His heart to men and appeals for their submission to His claim on their lives.

Covenant theology extends this to saying there are clear themes running through covenants, themes of grace and faith, works and law, and that these themes connect covenants into different administrations of the same kind of relationship with men -- a relationship that has been through faith by grace since man's fall.
Finally, can someone try and explain why it's covenants that God has chosen to relate to humanity? What makes them so important?
Um, if they're contracts of relationship between God and men, how else might God set up a relationship? Maybe if He held no obligations to the contract, He would be Big Santa, right? If he had obligations and didn't tell us He'd be a Big Secret, or the silent Killer.

So I would have to say that God relates to us in covenants because He intends us to learn from Him how we may live, what our situation and status is before Him, and other things. These are the things that a covenant describes.
 
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Lee Fey

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I've heard a teaching on the Abrahamide covenant. When he had the animals and cut them in half, and the two divine light thingies went between them, that was supposed to be the establishing of a covenant with royalty and subject. When the king and subject make a covenant, they put these animals in their places, then the subject walks through them, signifying that if this subject failed his king, he would be subject to the consequences of said failure, namely death. The king, on the other hand, was not obligated to return the favor, though good kings often did.

What made this one so special was that God walked through the animal parts for both Abraham, then Abram, and Himself, taking on the responsibility of failure for both their parts, both their sakes.

That's the teaching I know of anyway.

Back to the Noahide covenant. Half the "Noahide laws" that are said to have come out of that, especially the ones in the Talmud, seem to have come out of Acts 15. Can someone please help me with that?
 
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Lee Fey

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I guess I'm also quite curious as to how said rabbinical teachings came about. I've read the passage of Noah's covenant, and have not seen any kind of indication at, I've done the research, of the thirty some-odd laws that were believed to have come out of it once. Not even the seven that are believed today completely come out of that passage. So, rabbinical teaching says all these laws came out of that covenant for all the peoples of the Earth, where did they get their ideas?

Finally, if anyone can educate me on what the basic building blocks of what a covenant is, I'd find that very helpful.
 
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heymikey80

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Finally, if anyone can educate me on what the basic building blocks of what a covenant is, I'd find that very helpful.
I can at least direct you to a couple of resources.

Galatians 3 outlines two kinds of stipulations found in a covenant: promises and laws. These are different from one another: a law can't be a promise, and Paul explains why. He also explains how covenants "overlay" one another. A successive covenant does not terminate a prior covenant -- though the succeeding covenant may satisfy some or all of the stipulations of the prior one.

Covenants can also have ordinances. They're always constructed among persons. Many covenants have the aspect of blood institution associated with them as well. (Heb 9,10)

O.P. Robertson has a couple of books on this -- probably the best I've read was out of print last I checked, called "Covenants".

I also have "Christ of the Covenants" which is informative. It just seems more embedded in a debate with dispensationalism.
 
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LamorakDesGalis

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I've heard a teaching on the Abrahamide covenant. When he had the animals and cut them in half, and the two divine light thingies went between them, that was supposed to be the establishing of a covenant with royalty and subject. When the king and subject make a covenant, they put these animals in their places, then the subject walks through them, signifying that if this subject failed his king, he would be subject to the consequences of said failure, namely death. The king, on the other hand, was not obligated to return the favor, though good kings often did.

A covenant is essentially a commitment between two "parties." Sometimes the covenant is between two equals such as that between David and Jonathan. Other times the covenant is between two "unequals" such as between a king to his servant or subjects, or as in the Bible, between God and one of His servants. The main covenants in Scripture followed the patterns/types of the covenants in the Ancient Near East.

The covenant between two equals is known as a parity covenant. Abraham and Abimelech is an example of one such covenant in Gen 21:27. Another type was known as the royal grant covenant. This is an "unequal" covenant between a king and a faithful servant. In the royal grant covenant, the king would give/grant land to a loyal/faithful servant. This grant was unconditional to the servant and his descendants. The Noahic covenant is in the form of a royal grant covenant, as is the Abrahamic covenant in Gen 15:9-21, the Davidic covenant in 2 Sam 7:5-16 and the New covenant in Jer 31:31-34.

A third type of covenant was known as the suzerain-vassal covenant. In this covenant, the king (suzerain) would require loyalty and service from a subject (vassal), as well as a pledge of protection. The vassal would then give the required loyalty and service, and rely upon the protection of the king. Unlike the royal grant covenant, the suzerain-vassal covenant was conditional. The typical wording in these covenants were terms like "Lord" and "servant" or "father" and "son." The Mosaic covenant in Exodus chapters 19-24 and the Abrahamic covenant in Gen 17 are suzerain-vassal covenants. Also the book of Deuteronomy is patterned after the suzerain-vassal treaty.

My understanding of covenants is as such: the Noahide covenant is really a restatement of the Adamite covenant, and applies to all mankind. The Abrahamic covenant applies to his descendants, of Isaac and of Ishmael. The Mosaic covenant only applies to the children of Israel, and finally, the New Covenant through Jesus Christ applies, not through blood, but through faith, His church and everyone who would believe in Him.

My question though, is why God chose the concept of the covenant to relate to humanity, and whether or not I'm right about my classifications in the scope of these covenants. Oh, and can someone help explain what the official doctrine of these covenants are? I've researched the Noahide covenant, and supposedly there are seven laws from that covenant, but half of them seem to come out of Acts 15. I don't know. Help me, please.

The Noahic covenant is really in a different form than anything God said to Adam. What God told Adam was conditional - don't eat the fruit of one tree. The Noahic covenant is unconditional - God said He would refrain from ever destroying the earth again with water.

In Genesis God repeats the promises of the Abrahamic covenant to Isaac and Jacob, but not to Ishmael. So the Abrahamic covenant wasn't to Ishmael, but specifically to the descendants of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. The Mosaic covenant is specifically to Jews. The Davidic covenant was specifically to the Davidic kings who succeeded David. The New covenant was originally addressed to Jews only - to those who held to the Mosaic covenant. However in Acts 10-11, God demonstrated that New covenant blessings were expanded to include believing Gentiles and not just believing Jews.

Now these covenants are related to one another. The Abrahamic covenant spells out its promises in broad terms. The Mosaic, Davidic and New Covenants expand on these broad promises and go into more of the details.

There is a Noahic covenant and then there are Noahide laws. One can read Gen 9:8-17 and observe what the Noahic covenant says. However if one wants to find the seven Noahide laws, then these are listed in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 56). Regarding Acts 15, these are not Noahic laws. They are cultural/social restrictions from believing Jews to believing Gentiles, and they concern widespread practices which were once associated with pagan religions.


LDG
 
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Many have been confused over the allegory Paul used to illustrate the Old and New Covenants. Here is the way he wrote about it: "For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a free-woman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children." Verses 22-25.

See

http://www.nisbett.com/library/why_old_covenant_failed-los13.html
los13cover.jpg
 
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Eila

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The old covenant didn't fail. Jesus fulfilled it and inaugurated a new covenant in His blood. We have access to the new covenant through faith in Jesus. The new covenant was made between the Father and the Son of Man. Jesus made the covenant with the Father on behalf of mankind and we have access to that covenant by faith alone.
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Iosias

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Look, there has been a lot of stuff pertaining to covenants that I've thought about and noticed. I've heard of the different covenants: Noahide, Abrahamic, Mosaic and the New Covenant with Jesus. Can someone try and explain those different covenants to me.

Finally, can someone try and explain why it's covenants that God has chosen to relate to humanity? What makes them so important?

I will suggest that you read three books:

1. http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Divine_Covenants/divine_covenants.htm by A. W. Pink
2. http://www.reformedreader.org/history/howell/thecovenantstoc.htm by Robert Boyt C. Howell
3. then the following by John Gill;

BOOK III: Of the Eternal Works of God.
7. Of the Law Given to Adam, and the Covenant made with Him in the State of Innocence...

BOOK II: Of the Acts and Works of God.
6. Of the Everlasting Council Between the Three Divine Persons, Concerning the Salvation of Men.
7. Of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, Between the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
8. Of the Part Which the Father Takes in the Covenant.
9. Of the Part the Son of God, the Second Person, Has Taken in the Covenant.
10. Of Christ, as the Covenant-Head of the Elect.
11. Of Christ, the Mediator of the Covenant.
12. Of Christ, the Surety of the Covenant.
13. Of Christ, the Testator of the Covenant.
14. Of the Concern the Spirit of God Has in the Covenant of Grace.
15. Of the Properties of the Covenant of Grace.

BOOK IV: Of the Acts of the Grace of God, Towards, and Upon His Elect in Time.
1. Of the Manifestation and Administration of the Covenant of Grace.
2. Of the Exhibitions of the Covenant of Grace in the Patriarchal State.
3. Of the Exhibition of the Covenant of Grace Under the Mosaic Dispensation.
4. Of the Covenant of Grace, as Exhibited in the Times of David, and the Succeeding Prophets, to the Coming of Christ.
5. Of the Abrogation of the Old Covenant, or First Administration of it, and the Introduction of the New, or Second Administration of it.

In reading these you will be benefitted many times over!!
 
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Hismessenger

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The Abrahamic covenant is the only one still unbroken and it is explained in a prior post as to why. God consumated the covenant in Himself leaving no place for man to break that which he was not apart of making. It is the foreshadow of Christ brining salvation to the world.

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