Can salvation be lost?

[blinx]

I was wondering, can salvation be lost?

I mean, once someone is saved, can he loose his salvation?

 

[johnd]

... the only salvation in Christ that can be lost is a salvation that never was in the first place.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

 

[johnd]

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

It is the transformation from unbelief in Jesus Christ to belief in him.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[blinx]

Yeah, sure, but what about hebrews 6?

Kinda raises a doubt...no?


hebrews 6:4-12
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, hebrews 6:4-125 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, hebrews 6:4-126 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[blinx]

Yeah, sure, but what about hebrews 6?

Kinda raises a doubt...no?


hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, hebrews 6:4-65 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, hebrews 6:4-66 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[blinx]

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

It is the transformation from unbelief in Jesus Christ to belief in him.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

well you can't just take some verses about the sujbect and make doctrine based only on that... you have to read ALL of the verses concerning salvation...... I know that it's written that we're saved by grace...that no one can snatch us of His hand....etc etc....but I also know that it's also written for us to note and appreeciate the "gracious kindness and the SEVERITY of God...otherwise you too shall be cut off" (romans 11:22) and much more..

 

[johnd]

well you can't just take some verses about the sujbect and make doctrine based only on that... you have to read ALL of the verses concerning salvation...... I know that it's written that we're saved by grace...that no one can snatch us of His hand....etc etc....but I also know that it's also written for us to note and appreeciate the "gracious kindness and the SEVERITY of God...otherwise you too shall be cut off" (romans 11:22) and much more..

Ok. Let's compare them in the context of all of scripture. Let's begin with the passage you cite in Romans:

Romans 11:16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either {{for unbelief}}.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell {{unbelief}}, but kindness to you {{belief}}, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

Most arguments allude to passges you hinted at concluding something like "no one can take away the faith of a believer, but they can walk away from it of their own free will." This was already answered by 1 John 2:19 (that one who walks away never truly believed in the first place). But there are also passages like:

Jeremiah 32:40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me.

So, 1 John 2:19 coupled with Jeremiah 32:40 (genuine believers don't walk away), and throw in the verses you hinted at in John 10:28-29 (the Father and the Son hold us in their hands) along with our inability to sin our way out of salvation:

1 Corinthians 5:5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

Meaning:

If we are so incredibly stupid that we will not quit sinning no matter what the consequences and the warnings we receive from the Spirit and scripture and I don't know the law of the land or mother's tears, all of it... then God will take us out of the land of the living to preserve aour salvation.

I just do not see how some vague texts in scripture can be put together to support a doctrine of being able to lose one's salvation.

I know good men and women in Christ believe this. But it sure puzzles the Nacho Libre out of me.

PS, I have been jokingly accused where I work of looking like the character in a movie recently released in America Nacho Libre.

​

 

[blinx]

Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either {{for unbelief}}.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell {{unbelief}}, but kindness to you {{belief}}, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

well this verses clearly show that one can STAND BY FAITH and then by disbelief be cut off. ("provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.")

And there are other passages such as Hebrews 6 (
4
For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.)

and in James 5:19-20 Brethen, if anyone among you strays from the Truth ((one can be in the Truth but stray away from it, and how can you be in the Truth if not by faith?)) and that one brings him back [to God] 20 Let the [latter] one be sure that whoever turns a sinner from his evil course will save [that one's] soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

And in

Acts 8:9
But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
Acts 8:10
To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
Acts 8:11
And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 8:13
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Acts 8:14
. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Acts 8:15
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:16
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 8:17
Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:18
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Acts 8:19
Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:20
But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Acts 8:21
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Note it says that SIMON BELIEVED. And in verse 20 says
"Thy money perish with thee" ...

and there is the case of the false teachers..

2Pet 2:1
. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

"THE LORD BOUGHT THEM"...and then it says "upon themselves swift destruction."

and Demas...

2Tim 4:10
For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

 

[Blank123]

it can't be lost - but it can be rejected.

Its like anything else that comes along with freewill. God never forced me to love His truth and accept Christ's gift of salvation and He's not going to force me to stay in the faith if the day should come I no longer want any part in it. I mean why does freedom in Christ mean that I suddenly have no freedom to choose what I want to do, what G/god I really want to follow and what gospel I actually want to believe in? That doesn't sound like freedom to me

in fact that very concept kinda negates Christ's command:

23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels. - Luke 9:23-26

If I have no choice in the matter - how on earth am I able to choose to take up my cross daily and follow after Him?

If I choose to reject His truth then it only makes sense I shouldn't be able to be saved and even more than that - He will give me delusions to believe in place of His truth.


“ But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
3 “ He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol.
Just as they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 So will I choose their delusions,
And bring their fears on them;
Because, when I called, no one answered,
When I spoke they did not hear;
But they did evil before My eyes,
And chose that in which I do not delight.” - Isaiah 66:2-4

and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. - 2 Thess 2:10-12

 

[MadFingerPainter]

http://www.loriswebs.com/lorispoetry/grace.html

 

[justified]

it took me a long long time realise that our job as Christians was not to conquer sin -- that has already been done -- but rather to serve God. If you choose not to serve God any longer (ie Hebrews 6) of course you lose out on what you have been offered. That is the full testimony of scripture; in fact it's the vague implications of passages which tends to confuse the issue because people come up with a perseverance of the saints doctrine conflated with "once saved always saved" and no one knows what's going on...

 

[Angel of God]

I was wondering, can salvation be lost?

I mean, once someone is saved, can he loose his salvation?

If one commits scandal..against Holy Spirit(Jesus Words)then he can lose his salvation.
See Matthew 5, 29..30; that is a scandal against Jesus Words for virgins(monks, priests and pastors also..)

 

[GL2814]

I was wondering, can salvation be lost?

I mean, once someone is saved, can he loose his salvation?

Once saved always saved. If a person could lose their salvation; then, Christ's death on the cross was not good enough.

 

[L3g3nd]

Once saved always saved. If a person could lose their salvation; then, Christ's death on the cross was not good enough.

By that token, all the world would be saved. If one cannot break their relationship with Christ through unbelief and denial, how then are those who have not believed Him in danger of eternal damnation?

 

[onetenth]

it can't be lost - but it can be rejected.

I go along with Little Tigress earlier.

To me, scriptures seem to fall on both sides. Looking at the parable of the sower, some seed fell on shallow ground, some among weeds. The seeds grew, but died after a time. This parable is about the Gospel being planted among the people. It would indicate that there are some who accept the Gospel for a time, but for some reason stop. Were they saved, and then turned their backs? Or were they never truly saved at all? Only God would know their hearts.

I think the difference between the shallow or weedy soil and the good soil is in abiding:

John 15:

5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

Some that accept the Gospel don't continue to abide in Christ. Whether they turned away from it, never had it, or lost it, I'm not sure we can tell. All I know is that if I abide in the Vine, I don't have anything to worry about. No one and no thing can snatch me out of His hand.

We just had the Harvest thing here in So. Cal. and many accepted the invitation to accept Christ. I can't help but wonder how many of those will abide . I pray for them often.

 

[Peter]

I don't hold my salvation. I can't lose it. Next question.

The Reader Peter

 

[hlaltimus]

Can salvation be lost? Which salvation? As salvation is a general term which is applied in a number of specific ways in the scriptures, more than one kind of genuine "Salvation" is to be considered. If your salvation experience included sound evidence of regeneration, or, a new heart....No, that salvation will continue without end throughout all eternity. If you happened to ask God to forgive you for a particular sin or sins in your life without asking Him to forgive you for your very person, that may be a different matter. Forgiveness of an act and forgiveness of a person and the acts for the sake of that person are two different things which will distinguish a salvation which can be lost from one which cannot. However, even if you do have good evidence of regeneration and full atonement covering, this evidence will always be just that: Good evidence and not perfect evidence. Perfect, incontestable evidence will only be found in eternity to come where we will no longer have opportunity to make amends, and so we must walk with caution while in this life and never be too "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] sure" of a security which we cannot flawlessly detect, while at the same time placing more emphasis upon things which we can more easily apprehend, such as sanctification of life. Regenerative salvation cannot be lost, but many have no doubt been lost who erroneously presumed upon that kind of salvation which they never truly had.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

I was wondering, can salvation be lost?

I mean, once someone is saved, can he loose his salvation?

Is grace and faith given to you?eph 2:8-9 or earned romans 4:16, 11:6

Matt 18:12, john 10:26-29

who placed you in the heavenlies..... you or God ...eph 2:6

 

[Jon0388g]

'Lost' is not really the best word to describe it, although 'rejected' is.

Firstly, salvation is a free gift from God, through Jesus Christ: Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." The gift is already ours, it is our choice whether we choose to accept it, to 'believe' it, or not.

Secondly, we must understand that this gift is given to ALL mankind, and upon our rejection, then and only then is one 'not saved'. Many verses throughout the Bible speak of the Book of life kept in heaven by God: He clearly says in Exodus 32:32 'The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book." ' Also Revelation 3:5 ' " He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life...." ' This shows that everybody's name is initially in the book - kind of like a massive consensus of creation lol, and we are all saved through Christ, but when we are judged as to who accepts Christ's gifts or not, our names our blotted out, or kept in!!

 

[eoe]

(Revelation 22:19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

If the name was in the book of life was he "not really saved"? IF it is then removed is he still saved?

(Philippians 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Why have any fear or trembling if salvation is assured? Why do you need to work out anything?


This whole discussion is flawed due to a totally broken understanding of salvation in the first place. Salvation is not a one time event. It is a process that began after the fall, saw its fruition in the incarnation of the Logos and will be finished at the dread judgement seat of Christ. Until we are standing on the other side of the narrow gate we are not totally saved.