Can non-Catholics be saved?

[Jamza]

Hello, I was just wondering whether Roman Catholics believe that Christians from the other denominations can be saved? For example, I believe in Jesus, have repented and follow the teachings of the Bible and spead the gospel to others as well as I can.

I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church for its righteous moral teaching, great history, size, culture, and general determination to spread the gospel. However, I'm not a Catholic, as you see from my icon I don't have a denomination. I attend a Baptist church, but believe all Christians should be united in the universal church - the people of God/ bride of Christ. Would I be considered saved in Catholic doctrine.

 

[Metanoia02]

Indeed non-Catholic Christians can be saved.

 

[InnerPhyre]

It's not for us to say if you are saved or not (or anyone for that matter). That is a judgment left only to God. Yes it is possible for protestants to be saved though.

 

[Alexis OCA]

Deja vu all over.

 

[Benedicta00]

Catholics don’t even consider themselves as saved.

We believe salvation is a process and that only God judges you. We can't know a person's heart and know what truly is inside. We can only judge their actions, behavior whether it is good or bad but we can not know their hearts and we can not see them as God sees them. For that we don’t know who is saved and who isn’t.

We believe that when you are born again (baptized) you are a member of Christ’s mystical body which is his Church, even if you aren’t officially in union with His visible (“C”atholic) Church and are "saved" from the fall of mankind, and now are reconciled to God the father, and you came to God through Christ (you baptism, saved by grace alone) and you are a new creation. We then believe since you are newly born, newly made you must then live that out by then accepting what was given to you (grace) through faith and good works, persevering to the end then you will be saved in the end.

 

[Jamza]

Thanks, thats helpful. As I said, I have the opinion that all Christians belong to the Church, despite our slight denominational differences, although I can see why Catholic Christians might see the the Catholic Church as the true church. Thanks for your comment, Innerphyre, though to be honest I wouldn't like to class myself a protestant (I'd rather evangelical if pushed). If you've heard about the current issues in the Church of England you can see why, it seems to embaress itself with moral teaching like the gay issue, and most notably that of the Archbishop questioning his faith after the Tsunami! What happened to Jesus' words 'such things must happen'? As I said, I respect the Catholics for standing firm for righteousness. God bless

 

[Stormy]

Jamza : Why don't you find out more about the Catholic Church. You seem to have a respect for the opinion of the Church. There is nothing keeping you outside of its doors, but yourself. I am in RCIA and will be welcomed into the Church this Easter. It has been a beautiful experience.


Now to my Catholic family here on OBOB: Yes, I know that the Church accepts all Christians into their fold by baptism. And yes, I know that we can not judge anyone. BUT... The Eucharist? Is it not said that without it... there is no life. ( I hate it when I do not have my Bible handy to show the verse)

The true Presence is not the only reason that I am joining the church, but it is the main reason. I do not think that all christian churches are equal. Is that wrong?

 

[tjboie2001]

Yes Non Catholics can be saved why not. And you are talking about the Roman catholics I am a memeber at a Roman Cathoilc church it is the same as any other Catholic church.

 

[Jamza]

Its definitely an interesting discussion here , thanks again for everyone who's commenting.

Stormy = I do respect the Catholic Church a lot. Something that stands out for me (I know the church is the people) but the cathedrals in Europe etc reli fill me with a sense of awe and the presence of God. However, I don't intend joining. I have a strong church family at my baptist church, and actual family attend their too. Seems like I'd be abandoning them if I left Plus, I think you should make the best of where God has put you, so I think I'll stick with all the work I'm involved with there.

tjboie: I thought Catholics believed only Catholics could be saved, looks like I was wrong, so it shows I've learnt something - and I use the Roman Catholic Church to mean all Catholics yes, I believe its the technical term for Catholicism, though catholic as a word means universal.

 

[tjboie2001]

Its definitely an interesting discussion here , thanks again for everyone who's commenting.

Stormy = I do respect the Catholic Church a lot. Something that stands out for me (I know the church is the people) but the cathedrals in Europe etc reli fill me with a sense of awe and the presence of God. However, I don't intend joining. I have a strong church family at my baptist church, and actual family attend their too. Seems like I'd be abandoning them if I left Plus, I think you should make the best of where God has put you, so I think I'll stick with all the work I'm involved with there.

tjboie: I thought Catholics believed only Catholics could be saved, looks like I was wrong, so it shows I've learnt something - and I use the Roman Catholic Church to mean all Catholics yes, I believe its the technical term for Catholicism, though catholic as a word means universal.

That is ok you did good.

 

[Michelina]

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?

Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

http://www.christianforums.com/t1185358-can-non-catholics-be-saved.html

I have a strong church family at my baptist church, and actual family attend their too.

This is great, Jamza, but more than this is required of a Christian as he grows in his walk. We need to seek God's Will in all things. We wouldn't want you to go away with the impression that the Church to which you belong is a matter about which God or we are indifferent. That is far from the Truth.

The question must occur to you: What is the Church Our Lord established? It is clear from SScripture that He wanted that Church to be perfectly one in mind and heart (John 17). Yet there is the blatant scandal of thousands of denominations. How did that happen? It's not your fault, of course, Jamza. All an individual needs to do is to seek His Will regarding this larger question in order to rest his conscience and know that he has truly sought God's Will.

Here is a resource for you. God be with you:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

 

[Veritas]

What Michelina said!

 

[ps139]

Stormy, I think ignorance of the Eucharist and willfull rejection of the Eucharist will bring about different consequences.

 

[Michelina]

Jamza : Why don't you find out more about the Catholic Church. You seem to have a respect for the opinion of the Church. There is nothing keeping you outside of its doors, but yourself. I am in RCIA and will be welcomed into the Church this Easter. It has been a beautiful experience.

Now to my Catholic family here on OBOB: Yes, I know that the Church accepts all Christians into their fold by baptism. And yes, I know that we can not judge anyone. BUT... The Eucharist? Is it not said that without it... there is no life. ( I hate it when I do not have my Bible handy to show the verse)

The true Presence is not the only reason that I am joining the church, but it is the main reason. I do not think that all christian churches are equal. Is that wrong?

You're right, Stormy. All Christian Churches are not equal. There is only one true Church. That was and is the will of Our Lord. There will only be one Church in heaven.

But Bill, ps139, is pointing out the need for non-Catholic Christians to learn about the Eucharist. Since you have a great love for the Most Blessed Sacrament, it may very well be that you will have opportunities to help non Caths in this regard. I'll bet you will!

 

[Glynnw]

Of course they can be saved. We Catholics do not have the market on that.

 

[Benedicta00]

Jamza : Why don't you find out more about the Catholic Church. You seem to have a respect for the opinion of the Church. There is nothing keeping you outside of its doors, but yourself. I am in RCIA and will be welcomed into the Church this Easter. It has been a beautiful experience.


Now to my Catholic family here on OBOB: Yes, I know that the Church accepts all Christians into their fold by baptism. And yes, I know that we can not judge anyone. BUT... The Eucharist? Is it not said that without it... there is no life. ( I hate it when I do not have my Bible handy to show the verse)

The true Presence is not the only reason that I am joining the church, but it is the main reason. I do not think that all christian churches are equal. Is that wrong?

Well you are right, the Eucharist and Jesus’ words to us about that… “Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood you have no life in you.”

I believe many holy non Catholic Christians who are truly born again and who accept the grace of God through faith and who do walk with Christ, doing God’s will do receive Him in a spiritual communion where he does come and reside, make his home in them and purify and sanctify them. But again just because someone says “Lord Lord” that doesn’t mean they are what I described. Only God knows and I believe he does come to them some how, some way, the same way he comes to us just not in the substantial way he comes to us.

This does not mean I am down playing the Church and the necessity to be in union with her but I’m just saying that the reformation and all those who left the flock, there are those who are victims of this and really by no fault of their own are not in union with Christ’s Church and God isn’t going to let the reformation stop him from communing with those who he finds worthy of Him.

And so shame, shame, shame on all the Catholic who have this gift so easily available to them and are like “whatever” about it.

Think about it, you have these non Catholics who do not have access to the teaching of the truth nor do they have access to the Eucharist but they strive to be holy, strive to follow Him as best as they know how, best as they were taught how and then we have Catholics who look like they rather have a root canal then be at Mass. In whom do you think Jesus makes in home in?

 

[Jamza]

Thanks Michelina for some very helpful comments, I agree with you that different denominations are a scandal as you put it; think what we could achieve if unified. Though having said that, and I don't mean any offense by this, but from what I've read, the reformers in the sixteen hundreds did have moral reasons for splitting with the Catholic Church. I believe these concerns were the widespread use of those special dispensations from the Church that forgave sins (I can't remember the term) and the doctrine of purgatory, which didn't seem to have a solid grounding in Scripture.

That said of course, the factions really should have reunited, and I know that the criticisms that the Protestants had were also linked to the Church's association with different states in Europe, and how some corruption developed in some instances to do with politics, as is inevitable with any large organisation. And I don't consider anything like that to be relevent anymore, and see the Catholic Church as a very righteous and pure institution.

You seem a very godly person and I will definitely seek God's will about all these things, thank you very much for your insights.

ps139, isn't the Eucharist just the equivilent of Communion? I'm not sure in what way this is paramount. It is very important in my church, as a symbol of our new covernant with Jesus, I believe. Does the Catholic Eucharist have a further significance than this?

Thanks again, and God bless you.

 

[RhetorTheo]

Salvation is theoretically possible for non-Catholics, but it's not something you should rely upon. The only clear and safe path is the visible Catholic Church.

 

[RhetorTheo]

ps139, isn't the Eucharist just the equivilent of Communion? I'm not sure in what way this is paramount. It is very important in my church, as a symbol of our new covernant with Jesus, I believe. Does the Catholic Eucharist have a further significance than this?

I think the Eucharist is former bread and wine (the body and blood), and Communion is what is done with the body and blood.

 

[Benedicta00]

Thanks Michelina for some very helpful comments, I agree with you that different denominations are a scandal as you put it; think what we could achieve if unified. Though having said that, and I don't mean any offense by this, but from what I've read, the reformers in the sixteen hundreds did have moral reasons for splitting with the Catholic Church. I believe these concerns were the widespread use of those special dispensations from the Church that forgave sins (I can't remember the term) and the doctrine of purgatory, which didn't seem to have a solid grounding in Scripture.

That said of course, the factions really should have reunited, and I know that the criticisms that the Protestants had were also linked to the Church's association with different states in Europe, and how some corruption developed in some instances to do with politics, as is inevitable with any large organisation. And I don't consider anything like that to be relevent anymore, and see the Catholic Church as a very righteous and pure institution.

You seem a very godly person and I will definitely seek God's will about all these things, thank you very much for your insights.

ps139, isn't the Eucharist just the equivilent of Communion? I'm not sure in what way this is paramount. It is very important in my church, as a symbol of our new covernant with Jesus, I believe. Does the Catholic Eucharist have a further significance than this?

Thanks again, and God bless you.

Oh boy, were getting deep now.

First, it is a misconception about the reformation and the issues of Luther. Luther was right about abuses in the Church and right to bring them to the attention of the pope to get them to stop (and they did stop) but he was wrong changing Christ’s doctrine. When the pope would not agree with him on his view of history, his view of the bible and his view of the ECF, then Luther cut himself loos and sadly no matter what sect yu refer to yourself as, you are born from this seed of Luther.

Luther did not leave because the Church taught error, he left because the Church would not agree with him.

On the Eucharist, it is the real presence of Jesus where he comes to us, binds himself to us and puts that divine life in us, this is how/why we are “saved”, because the divine eternal life itself comes and lives and dwells in us.

Evangelicals do not have this, this is not what Evangelicals have in their communion services.