It is okay to believe this but it could be the sacraments are needed to bring us to heaven upon passing this earth. Otherwise why am I orthodox?
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It says in John 6:51 "I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
The bread which the disciples were about to partake of is representative of his (at that time) upcoming crucifixion. It is similar to the meal of lamb which God instructed the Jews to eat at Passover before they would leave Egypt.
When John the Baptist looked at Jesus, he said "Behold, the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world."
Thus John 6:51 is not concerning the sacrament of communion for those already saved, but it's concerning salvation through Christ unto those who are not saved.
Be mindful that there is no distinction in any text of whether catholic means saved and protestant means not saved, for catholicism was not in place during the ministry of Jesus, nor during the lives of the 11 apostles- of those who wrote the epistles.
In fact, in all the New Testament there is no mention of any particular denomination, but only God's truth. Therefore the Bible is not Catholic truth, nor is it Protestant truth. (this is the main reason why I do not give my denomination in my profile, but rather I give the designation of Christian.. because the Bible states that there is no distinction of Jew or Gentile., it follows that there would be no distinction of denomination either; but all believers are in Christ).
Therefore, look at the bare bones of God's word, and not through the fully dressed denominational clothing that each denomination dresses God's word with.
The actual eating of Christ's flesh is not pictured in the text or in any text. But rather the partaking of the gospel where eating is compared to receiving which is compared to humbling ones thoughts to God's word of truth.
It says in Jeremiah 15:16 "Your words were found and I ate them, and Your words became for me a joy and delight of my heart."
It says in James 1:21 "In humility receive the implanted word which is able to save your soul."
It says in Proverbs 3:5 "Lean not to your own understanding but trust in the Lord with all your heart, acknowledge Him in all your ways, and He shall direct your path."
It says in Ps.50:23 "To him who orders his way aright I will show the salvation of God."
It says in Isa.53:2 "For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot."
It says in Mat.18:3 "Truly I tell you," He said, "unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
It says in Jerem.17:7 "Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD and whose trust is the LORD. For he will be like a tree planted by the water."
It says in Isa.53:2 "And (He grew up) like a root out of parched ground."
It says in Jerem.17:8 "(the blessed man is like a tree) That extends its roots by a stream and will not fear when the heat comes; But its leaves will be green, And it will not be anxious in a year of drought nor cease to yield fruit."
You being orthodox is without your saying it, being a catholic. The true orthodox is being in Christ and thus, without a specific denomination. The designation that you are using, is a divisive distinction of yours that you practice while at the same time you, by your posts in this thread, are desiring unity with Protestants.It is okay to believe this but it could be the sacraments are needed to bring us to heaven upon passing this earth. Otherwise why am I orthodox?
The greatest is a servant to allI think I have troubled people with Jesus words unless you eat My flesh you have no life in you to mean Protestants may never be saved or have a chance at being worthy of a reward but I have given a good reasoning for believing as orthodox we should accept Protestants. I know in my conscience it is wrong to cast doubt in Protestants ability to be saved because I may hinder the gospel for people who may even be close to death who can doubt Christianity because there are too many denominations claiming to be the way who are offended by disunity and the bad representation orthodox give of God
How can I come back to God as He said you can not go back to Him without reconciling with others (I mean in terms of reward as you can still be saved but not if you refuse reconciliation from unforgiveness and those in your faith )? Do you forgive me my rebellion ?I can say I insist and hold to death Protestants can be saved but you may not believe me and you may think I will change my mind. So how do I cancel this negative effect ? I can not be Protestant but a Christian who believes in unity of all believers because I can not get out of my mind you need to be baptised and/or born of water to be saved and eat His flesh but I believe Protestants can be forgiven in the age to come so I would still have to be orthodox and I think the Holy Spirit within me supports unity because of my conscience. Our conscience will accuse or excuse us in the day of Jesus
My defense for it being proper to accept Protestants is in the link below
Christian blog: Church ristianity
Anyway how do I cancel my negative affect on others of allowing those views not within my conscience to affect me. How do I get them to forgive me by not being offended anymore from me. I am willing to say I hold to death Christian unity but you may think I will return to those extremist views which make the path more narrow than it is which is in Jesus.
Also I would like your views on below
Christian blog: Knowing you are a Christian
Well i havent read your blog but if you want to fellowship with others that are not in your group go visit their churches and have communion or make an effort to invite those who arent oriental othodox to your church. Extend the right hand of fellowship and welcome them as brothers and sisters.I think I have troubled people with Jesus words unless you eat My flesh you have no life in you to mean Protestants may never be saved or have a chance at being worthy of a reward but I have given a good reasoning for believing as orthodox we should accept Protestants. I know in my conscience it is wrong to cast doubt in Protestants ability to be saved because I may hinder the gospel for people who may even be close to death who can doubt Christianity because there are too many denominations claiming to be the way who are offended by disunity and the bad representation orthodox give of God
How can I come back to God as He said you can not go back to Him without reconciling with others (I mean in terms of reward as you can still be saved but not if you refuse reconciliation from unforgiveness and those in your faith )? Do you forgive me my rebellion ?I can say I insist and hold to death Protestants can be saved but you may not believe me and you may think I will change my mind. So how do I cancel this negative effect ? I can not be Protestant but a Christian who believes in unity of all believers because I can not get out of my mind you need to be baptised and/or born of water to be saved and eat His flesh but I believe Protestants can be forgiven in the age to come so I would still have to be orthodox and I think the Holy Spirit within me supports unity because of my conscience. Our conscience will accuse or excuse us in the day of Jesus
My defense for it being proper to accept Protestants is in the link below
Christian blog: Christianity
Anyway how do I cancel my negative affect on others of allowing those views not within my conscience to affect me. How do I get them to forgive me by not being offended anymore from me. I am willing to say I hold to death Christian unity but you may think I will return to those extremist views which make the path more narrow than it is which is in Jesus.
Also I would like your views on below
Christian blog: Knowing you are a Christian
Read romans 10No I would be glad if it can be moved to another forum particularly the traditional theology forum. I have never had communion in another church. If I can't debate these things I don't care to be in the church since the church may often neglects my problems and concerns and I have doubts that need to be addressed. I am not going to let any person control my conscience. I feel I am sinning to turn nearly everyone off from God because we can't even say to one who wants to be orthodox to help the strength of orthodoxy to help other Christians their faithful Christian parent who passed could have been saved because we can't even say for sure Christians outside the church who don't hate it are saved who are outside because they want to save others souls and make them righteous and spread hope of salvation to them and therefore not grief. Because God actually accepts Protestants but we may hinder them from believing God. Maybe it is time I leave orthodoxy if that is not accepted
I have yet to be convinced of orthodoxy and to see it as a just and beautiful message. But I do not think it is right to tell me to go to another church to have communion. I don't need to have communion to know it is the truth the Holy Spirit fell on cornelius to tell him it is the truth and to get baptised.
Maybe I did not want to debate anyway but just to get help which involved discussion if you define debate as not being open to changing your view but to defend and teach it as right
Mike: No, no, my friend...please don't misunderstand. When I write "these things are not up for debate", I mean that it is not appropriate for those outside of our faith like the posters you are interacting with to give advice against it on the grounds that its practices or customs are not the same as theirs, e.g., in matters of ecclesiology (i.e., "take communion at other churches" or the like), just like it would not be appropriate for us to chastise a Roman Catholic who is keeping to his own church's rule about not having married priests even though that is not our custom. Obviously you may debate or ask questions of fellow Orthodox people, as is common when there is some issue concerning how we ought to govern ourselves. Remember the big debate concerning canon 15 of Nicaea at the time of the election of HH Pope Shenouda III's successor? That was a debate, and it needed to happen, and there's nothing wrong with it.But we don't invite everyone in the world to help us decide how we will govern ourselves. Only those people who are actually in the Church.
So by all means, continue to ask questions! But you might also want to first ask a mod to move this thread to the Traditional Theology forum where people will not argue against your Church simply for having strict ecclesiology, closed communion, etc. These are side issues to the main issue concerning whether to accept Protestants as fellow Christians (of course we do, assuming they hold to the Nicene Creed), or how to understand the Eucharist, or any of this. You are already doing a good job with these by relying on the ancient Christian commentary, as there is no question that the fathers cannot enlighten for us.
And may God be with you in your struggles.
I think I have troubled people with Jesus words unless you eat My flesh you have no life in you to mean Protestants may never be saved or have a chance at being worthy of a reward but I have given a good reasoning for believing as orthodox we should accept Protestants. I know in my conscience it is wrong to cast doubt in Protestants ability to be saved because I may hinder the gospel for people who may even be close to death who can doubt Christianity because there are too many denominations claiming to be the way who are offended by disunity and the bad representation orthodox give of God
How can I come back to God as He said you can not go back to Him without reconciling with others (I mean in terms of reward as you can still be saved but not if you refuse reconciliation from unforgiveness and those in your faith )? Do you forgive me my rebellion ?I can say I insist and hold to death Protestants can be saved but you may not believe me and you may think I will change my mind. So how do I cancel this negative effect ? I can not be Protestant but a Christian who believes in unity of all believers because I can not get out of my mind you need to be baptised and/or born of water to be saved and eat His flesh but I believe Protestants can be forgiven in the age to come so I would still have to be orthodox and I think the Holy Spirit within me supports unity because of my conscience. Our conscience will accuse or excuse us in the day of Jesus
My defense for it being proper to accept Protestants is in the link below
Christian blog: Christianity
Anyway how do I cancel my negative affect on others of allowing those views not within my conscience to affect me. How do I get them to forgive me by not being offended anymore from me. I am willing to say I hold to death Christian unity but you may think I will return to those extremist views which make the path more narrow than it is which is in Jesus.
Also I would like your views on below
Christian blog: Knowing you are a Christian
You being orthodox is without your saying it, being a catholic. The true orthodox is being in Christ and thus, without a specific denomination. The designation that you are using, is a divisive distinction of yours that you practice while at the same time you, by your posts in this thread, are desiring unity with Protestants.
But no true unity can be achieved as long as you call your catholic doctrine 'orthodox'. And in doing so, you are stating that what you believe to be 'true unity'.. that all Protestants become Catholic. However, that is elevating your doctrine.. not exalting Christ, the Savior of both catholics and protestants; and all the world.
The (catholic) sacraments of communion are given for those catholics at the closeness of their death? Just in case they didn't go see a priest and repent for sins committed that day.
For the protestant, (I presume concerning different protestant denominations) they as gathered members have monthly communion.
But each Christian may also at any time in their own home take communion, but it's not necessarily required upon each time of prayer in repenting for sins.
Neither is a priest required to be present when approaching God in prayer (whether on one's death bed or not). For the apostles Paul and Peter wrote that all believers are priests unto God.
What is written in the Bible.. is the orthodox.
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