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The OP isn't Catholic.Sorry, but I'm serious about this: How can you imply that you have to be Catholic to be saved? And what's this about saved at death vs. some other kind of saved later on? That makes no sense. What part of John 3:16 am I not understanding?
Hello, mikeforjesus. It is good to see you here.
I'm not sure I understand your situation. Can you explain more what you mean about having troubled others? I am reminded that some of Jesus' followers were troubled by His command that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood, so I'm not sure that troubling others is in itself a problem.
Granted, the way it happens and the effect it may have on you and others may be a problem. To that end, I will tell you what I was told in the monastery of St. Shenouda when I went there a few years ago, by the wise and venerable priest there: The first rite of the Church is love. So before anything else, as the foundation of everything we do, we need to be loving. If you feel that in some sense you have been overly rigid or unloving towards people, then I would pray to the Lord that He soften your heart.
One prayer that I like to pray in situations similar to what you appear to be saying is the Sunday Psali for the Lord Jesus Christ, from the midnight praises. You may find it here: The English Translation of St. Antony Monastery, CL :: Sunday Psali for Jesus Christ
For me personally, it resonates deeply. "Your yoke is sweet, and Your burden is light." This is how it should be. Sometimes we make things harder than they should be in the pursuit of the Lord, but remember what our father Abba Anthony of the desert said to Abba Pambo: "Do not put your trust in your righteousness, nor regret past actions, but control your tongue and stomach."
As for returning to God, do you know HH Pope Shenouda III's popular sermon on the subject? Here it is with English subtitles. It helps me in my times of trouble, and I pray that it will help you too.
(No surprises here: the answer is prayer, as it always is.)
Hi dzherimiIt is a beautiful sermon by pope Shenouda. I watched the whole thing without being bored and His words were relevant. I felt he revealed the devil plot. I really wish and will try to endure in prayer but I really feel I have to show others that I am caring for my earthly future. I plan on looking for work as an engineer.
I don't know how to have balance because if I stop praying I feel I am lost and have to continue praying to make up for my future of being sluggish in prayer. It is good though if God has changed my heart to only desire Him but I feel I will be told off or persecuted for not having any earthly desires and I will be convinced rightly so. But it is true I have to pay back others for their help to me. Also I thought if I want a wife I have to succeed in life which I feel I can with God grace without praying too much unlike Hannah who obtained a promise of a son through her prayers.
I am not convinced I don't have to worry about Protestants and that God is looking after them. In that sense I have not found the church and even Jesus does not want me to obey Him if I have only found the truth mentally but not in my conscience as I explain below that He said we must count the cost. If I preached salvation is only known in the church to gain favor among orthodox (even though I do not believe that but because I am confident I won't affect Christians outside the church ) I worry my family will consider I am listening to the devil or being fooled by extremists them internally not being convinced of my way for lack of me being a good example of orthodoxy and for spending my dad money in the past when I was not working and I worry I will hurt or cause fights for my brothers future fiance whose parents are Coptic Catholic but she is orthodox and it will be blameworthy of me because even though orthodoxy should be preached God only wants it to be revealed to others by people who are like st Anthony the great who had grace and was a witness of orthodoxy and people saw proof of his saintliness through miracles but only to those worthy of seeing miracles. I also worry affecting everyone else especially those in my life.
As Jesus said we should consider if we can follow Him before we become His disciple. Lest after I try to build a tower and an not able to finish others mock.
Some orthodox think I have to be rich before I become a monk to know I am not running away from life and can endure monasticism.
I atleast believe I am not supposed to be dependant on my parents before I say all my brothers and sisters family needs to be orthodox. And I will not say that until I am not dependent on them and have seeked God assurance that I don't need to worry about Protestants if that was His will. Maybe that will not hinder Protestants from being saved but that is not my conscience now and I have yet to find that truth if it is the truth. It might even help Protestants but I am convinced the opposite helps Protestants so will stick to that until I know better.
St Anthony said not to worry about past that can not be fixed by us but what about that which can ? God can perhaps fix that which we can't fix if He wants
I like this! Thank you.
Note that the extreme anti-Protestant anti-ecumenical sentiment you have encountered elsewhere on the Net is basically "netodoxy" and does not reflect the current position of the Oriental Orthodox Church.
I think I have troubled people with Jesus words unless you eat My flesh you have no life in you to mean Protestants may never be saved or have a chance at being worthy of a reward but I have given a good reasoning for believing as orthodox we should accept Protestants. I know in my conscience it is wrong to cast doubt in Protestants ability to be saved because I may hinder the gospel for people who may even be close to death who can doubt Christianity because there are too many denominations claiming to be the way who are offended by disunity and the bad representation orthodox give of God
How can I come back to God as He said you can not go back to Him without reconciling with others (I mean in terms of reward as you can still be saved but not if you refuse reconciliation from unforgiveness and those in your faith )? Do you forgive me my rebellion ?I can say I insist and hold to death Protestants can be saved but you may not believe me and you may think I will change my mind. So how do I cancel this negative effect ? I can not be Protestant but a Christian who believes in unity of all believers because I can not get out of my mind you need to be baptised and/or born of water to be saved and eat His flesh but I believe Protestants can be forgiven in the age to come so I would still have to be orthodox and I think the Holy Spirit within me supports unity because of my conscience. Our conscience will accuse or excuse us in the day of Jesus
My defense for it being proper to accept Protestants is in the link below
Christian blog: Christianity
Anyway how do I cancel my negative affect on others of allowing those views not within my conscience to affect me. How do I get them to forgive me by not being offended anymore from me. I am willing to say I hold to death Christian unity but you may think I will return to those extremist views which make the path more narrow than it is which is in Jesus.
Also I would like your views on below
Christian blog: Knowing you are a Christian
Hi again, mikeforjesus.
It is bed time and then some here, but I wanted to say a few things.
First, the holy scriptures tell us that sufficient for the day is its own trouble (Matthew 6:34). I point this out because there is a lot of worry about the future in your posts. As you have pointed out, God will fix what He wills. Be still and know that He is God.
Second, of course prayer is good to keep us balanced, but even more than that it is as HH Pope Shenouda III put it in the sermon: it is taking from God. So if you recognize these problems (lack of balance, worry over your family, etc.), these are things to bring before the Lord in your prayers, because He has all that you need to deal with all of this. Maybe you will not be like Hanna in the temple, but just as in her example it is perseverance in prayer which leads to the kind of saintliness we see in St. Anthony and others.
Also, remember the story of the angel appearing to St. Anthony (at least I think it was him; I am away from my books right now, so I can't check, but it's definitely in the translation of the sayings of the Desert Fathers that I have) where the angel told him that there was man who was his equal in holiness residing in the city. Upon hearing this, St. Anthony went by the angel's direction to see this man and found a simple physician living an anonymous life who went about his work with prayer, gave his money to the poor, and every day chanted the Sanctus with the angels. No doubt there were probably worries and anxieties in this man's life, too (after all, that's part of the human condition, in so far as we become wrapped up in them), but the angel showed St. Anthony and us what was really important to living a balanced spiritual life. It is not so much the absence of problems (not at all, in fact; recall St. John the Little: "Lord, send me enemies, and give me strength for the fight"), but the focus on daily faithfulness in the way the Lord sets before us. Not everyone is called to the desert as St. Anthony or St. Paul the Hermit was. So I don't believe we can or should say that God only wants Orthodoxy revealed by those who are as saintly as St. Anthony. Of course we want to always try to be good representatives of our faith before others, as here on CAF, but there is a bigger lesson to be taken here about trusting in the Lord and honestly just...y'know...maybe slowing down a bit and taking things in an accepting and open fashion (note: NOT indifferent, as some people would have us be for having the temerity to say that Orthodox Christianity is uniquely true, as our faith commands of us, but in the sense of being soft-hearted, as we've talked about). Maybe not everyone is meant to preach to this or that people as in the days of St. Paul before the pagan Greeks, or in the fiery and righteous ways of someone like Iyowannis the Iconoclast in India or my beloved and holy father St. Shenouda the Archimandrite, but certainly you have a place too. We all do.
So why not try instead in situations like you mentioned with the Coptic Catholic future in-laws: do not worry about fights, because you will not cause them (commit yourself to that). Just be a good Orthodox Christian and avoid cross words about anyone. It is hard to get into arguments when you keep to the hours in the Agpeya, for instance, because you will occupy yourself with prayer, which is the best work and the antidote to all worries.Maybe they will even see what you have as an Orthodox Christian and desire it. Who knows. Either way, again our job is to be loving towards everyone.
You don't need to anguish over such things.
Giving them to God is the answer.
Thanks yes. I will wait for strength from Him
The works HIS FATHER commanded is found in John 6What is to partake in the sacraments? I do not believe the Catholics or Orthodox have cornered a supply of the flesh of God. If you take a piece of bread and a sip of wine from an ordained priest, you yet need to do God's will to be saved. The food alone is not sufficient.
John 4:31 In the meanwhile, the disciples urged him, saying, "Rabbi, eat." 32But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you don't know about." 33The disciples therefore said one to another, "Has anyone brought him something to eat?" 34Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work. -- World English Bible
If I want to be saved like Jesus was saved, then I must accomplish the works his father commands.
If I want to be saved like Jesus was saved, then I must accomplish the works his father commands.
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