Can I ask this? (belief and education)

[Roark]

I hope I don't get banned for asking this question.

Without making assumptions. Can we draw any conclusions about the level of education a person has and their likelihood of being a believer vs a non-believer?

I talk to people at my university all the time. It seems that the further they progress into their education, the more agnostic they become. It is hardly ever the opposite case-- non-believers coming to college and becoming believers.

The prof's in the science department are probably (very) largely non-believers. From what I understand, the profs in philosophy (and religion) are nearly completely atheist/agnostic.

Without ticking everyone off, are there any data that relate level of education and tendency to believe/dis-believe?

 

[DailyBlessings]

Well, the collegiate atmosphere has a way of deconverting people. I don't think it has so much to do with education level as social pressures. Christian beliefs do not make me popular in my department, for example, and I know this is true in many quarters. And I'm pretty liberal as Christians go, so I imagine the pressure on someone who was raised fundamentalist must be far worse. Constant exposure to ridicule is a powerful entity in shaping people's minds; we are not the independent players that we'd like to imagine.

 

[michabo]

Higher education is strongly correlated with increased levels of liberal theology and atheism. Theism is still a majority position and fundamentalism does not disappear completely.

It's hard to tell if there is a causal relationship. Does education promote scepticism which promotes liberal theology, or are sceptics more likely to be liberal theists and also more likely to take more schooling, or is there something else entirely going on?

 

[Achichem]

Without ticking everyone off, are there any data that relate level of education and tendency to believe/dis-believe?

Quite a few studies actually, but don't jump to conclusions.

See most people beliefs(any) are structured on assumptions(often coming from childhood) as one would expect. As one moves through education, they are taught to think in terms of questions instead of conclusions(to varying degrees of success) often then ones premise of faith is voided(atheists become less so, religious become as well). That is not to say however that a faith can not be based on questions, it just less commonly seen.

Then there is the fact that many faith fill people are not attached to traditional forms of education regardless of their ability to have great success at it. (which certainly skew the results)

The point, sure you can find trends as to high amount of agnostics(atheistic leaning) in a traditionally Western university setting. That trend should be expected due to the contrast in natures between traditional education and traditional faith.

Just don't jump to the conclusion that means agnostic are smarter....

The fruits of education: critical analysis, ability to access knowledge, ability to see others POV, ability to think in questions exist in theists, atheists, and agnostic alike...

Personally I certainly think agnosticism as a concept has to play a role in some form or another;that is if someone wishes to unlock the fullness of their potential intelligence or faith. Yet that might just be my own bais speaking.

 

[Jamza]

Clearly the assumption here is that those who hold religious beliefs tend to be less intelligent than agnostics/atheists. I would say the nature of Western academia with its 18th century Enlightenment background tends to produce agnosticism; or at least erodes the likelihood of holding a fundementalist religious position. I would however cite Thomas Aquinas, Augustine and Anslem as examples of extremely intelligent yet highly religious figures.

 

[FSTDT]

Roark,

Without making assumptions. Can we draw any conclusions about the level of education a person has and their likelihood of being a believer vs a non-believer?

I talk to people at my university all the time. It seems that the further they progress into their education, the more agnostic they become. It is hardly ever the opposite case-- non-believers coming to college and becoming believers.

Theres no shortage of studies that indicate a strong correlation between education and non-believerism (<-- just made that word up).

Let me give you few examples:

"and the theory of relativity......that all things are relative...thats false!
people that believe that all things are relative are really confused...

this computer isnt really in front of me...its my mind thinking it is...its all relative...yes is yes...and yes is no....
relativity contradicts!"

Humble Servant, Myspace



"by the way guys the big bang thery has been proven wrong even darwin said he made it up b4 he died"

SavedbytheBlood, e-Team Revolution



"And so, the question for evolutionists: How do paranormal capabilities evolve?

For instance the little dog who knows precisely when his owner first starts to
come home (the featurette you see on German cable channel); how did the little dog evolve that capability?"

medved, Free Conservatives



"Male primates don't shave. They never shaved. They do not grow beards. Male humans who never shave grow beards. Therefore humans and primates do not share a common ancestor."

LittleNipper, Christian Forums



"Talk about ad hominem! Hey, it's not my fault if scientists are idiot...or arrogant enough to apply a word [fact] to a theory without understanding the definition of said word."

Angyl, Rapture Ready

Can you estimate the level of science education any of those individuals have based on their statements? I think so.

A lot of conservative Christian theology has to do with creationism, and I'll be kind enough to let BibleDefender explain exactly what this entails:

"I wish some other creationists would help me. The flood becomes harder and harder to support when you get more information."

Bible Defender, Christian Forums

Similarly, credibility of prophecies, codes in the Bible, endtimes, and so on appears more and more specious as you begin to search rational reasons to believe those claims.

 

[Roark]

"I wish some other creationists would help me. The flood becomes harder and harder to support when you get more information."

Bible Defender, Christian Forums

This has to be the quote of the year

 

[michabo]

Clearly the assumption here is that those who hold religious beliefs tend to be less intelligent than agnostics/atheists.

I think people here have been very clear that we're asking about education and not intelligence. I know several people that are more educated than their intelligence warrants

 

[evange]

You know, I read somewhere that belief in God decreases with a bachelors degree, but then increases among those with graduate and post graduate degrees. Hmmmm.....

 

[Received]

The underlying philosophy, theorizing out loud, might have something to do with the relation a sense of undifferentiated fear has with education. Uneducated individuals, it seems to me (and michabo has pointed out), would have higher probability to hold religious beliefs, if for no other reason than through their ignorance and their inability to consider meticulously their own beliefs they hold beliefs that are relatively absurd. Educated people have thought out the difficulties, unveiled the contradictions, perceived arguments that point to a less threatening universe, and therefore tend to be free from such fearful theological standings. When you don't think about things inherent to your worldview, it's easy to see how God can be a dude who will condemn you to hell, hates women, homosexuals, and basically everything you don't like; but a simple contemplation on such things -- which uneducated people do not engage in -- would reveal the injustices involved with such things, and the potential for projecting oneself into one's God-beliefs, among other things.

 

[DailyBlessings]

You know, I read somewhere that belief in God decreases with a bachelors degree, but then increases among those with graduate and post graduate degrees. Hmmmm.....

That makes sense- I would assume that has more to do with age and maturity than a correspondance of education and belief though.

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi Roark,

"Without making assumptions. Can we draw any conclusions about the level of education a person has and their likelihood of being a believer vs a non-believer?"

I don't really think so, as it's said that Einstein and Hawking are both theists of a sort. By all accounts, C.S. Lewis and Bertrand Russell were both brilliant men, yet their views on God/theology are at opposite poles.

It appears to depend on what one is willing to believe, because, be honest, to believe in God, or almost any type of spirit realm beyond this does take a leap of faith. If one's ideas about the world and universe are based solely on imperical data, then they are not going to go beyond their five senses.

If one is open to other possibilities, then anything is possible. There is a wealth of data available, and growing, on the 'supernatural' in various aspects. Most scientist poo-poo it, but these are studies done by very credible scientists, physicists, psychologists, sociologists, etc.

It is all about the old saying, "the more we learn the less we know."

 

[Merlin]

The research data tends to go along with your observation.
Sad, but true.

 

[MewtwoX]

I think this points out something fairly self-evident:

Those who question, are those who learn.

Regardless of being Atheists, Agnostics, or Liberal Christians/Liberal Theists, the point remains that those who question their deeply held presuppositions are those who learn and understand life.

 

[Mskedi]

I think this points out something fairly self-evident:

Those who question, are those who learn.

Regardless of being Atheists, Agnostics, or Liberal Christians/Liberal Theists, the point remains that those who question their deeply held presuppositions are those who learn and understand life.

Well said.

 

[JGG]

It tends to depend on the type of education. For instance someone in the sciences, or philosophy who are made to question all their conclusions all the time will have a hard time not questioning their theology. Someone going to learn a trade, or maybe even theology may not be forced to do that.

Also, schools tend to be very multicultural, and people who are high in religiousity tend to do their darndest to only have major interactions with others of the same faith. Because no other viewpoints are ever expressed, there isn't much reason to doubt them.

 

[KCDAD]

Without making assumptions. Can we draw any conclusions about the level of education a person has and their likelihood of being a believer vs a non-believer?Without ticking everyone off, are there any data that relate level of education and tendency to believe/dis-believe?

Your premise relies on a consensus definition of "education". I would argue that what you are calling education is really indoctrination. The fact is that a large percentage of college professors are agnostic, atheist or otherwise non-believers. Science, especially, feels a need to separate itself from the non-intellectual presumptions of religion. This does not play out in the rest of society.
Since not all intelligent/educated people are professors, correlating education with non-belief is not the same as intelligence with non-belief.