Can God create a rock he cannot destroy?

[ahman]

An atheist posed this question to me once, and my only answer was that being a simple human, how was i supposed to know? and that the concept was beyond me and only God could truly answer it. it wasn't a very good answer.

so, what do all you guys think of this quesiton?

 

[Buzz Dixon]

Define "create" and "destroy."


If I imagine a rock in my head, I have created it in a limited sense. If I imagine the rock destroyed, the original pristine concept of the rock simultaneously still exists.

 

[ahman]

by create, i think that the question means a physical rock...one you could pick up and skim...and destroy, make it explode or disappear into nothingness.

in it's strictest sense though, it's not entriely relevant, as the question is more pointing out that if God cannot make something he can't destroy, or cannot destroy something he has made, that he is limited in some way and the whole thing is a sham as semitic religions believe he is omnipotent and omniscient

 

[Buzz Dixon]

Since God exists throughout the entire span of time, a rock created in 1 BC still exists then even if it is destroyed now.


God can alter but not undo His creation. Anything He destroys was created to be destroyed, hence it has fulfilled it purpose for Him and is thus perfect in every manner.

Assuming God would change His mind by creating a rock then destroying it is the sort of fallacy athiests like to propose so they can avoid staring eternity in the face.

 

[ahman]

thankyou, that sounds like a pretty good explanation to me, and next time i hear that question, im gonna nail 'em

 

[Machjo]

I was faced with a similar question once:

Can perfection become imperfect?


Another way of looking at it is:

Can the sage become a fool?

Of course not! To choose to become a fool would be foolish, and so a sage would never be foolish enough to make such a foolish decision to begin with, and so the sage cannot become a fool. In the same light, anyone who should make such a decision would obviously not be a sage to begin with, thus still making it impossible fo a sage to become a fool.

The same would apply to perfection, since wisdom would naturally be a part of perfection.

So now as for the question of whether or not God could create a rock he cannot destroy, seeing that he is all-powerful, he therefore cannot create a rock he cannot destry, since that would mean he wasn't all-powerful to begin with. But then seeing that, being God, he must by definition be all-powerful, it would therefore be impossible for him to create anything he couldn't destroy.

Another argument would be that, if he is the Creator, and not the Destroy, why would he create something to be destroyed; he just wouldn't bother creating it to begin with. After all, he's all-wise too, is he not?

I don't know if these are good arguments, but that's my attempt.

 

[ahman]

they are pretty good points, but then, the atheists point of view is that if either are possible it means that god is in some way limited and not all-powerful.

i think buzz hit the nail on the head when he said that nothing can ever truly be destroyed, since to do so you would have to make it so that the "something" was never created or thought of in the first place.

the only thing that doesn't truly exist is something that nobody has thought of or made...and since God is all-knowing, that is in fact nothing, so on some level, everything ever, has existed in some primitive form, and always will exist in that way unless it is changed.

thus, it is impossible to create something and then destroy it completely, only change it. God could of course destroy it, but that would mean starting existence again, which probably won't happen coz some bright spark atheist thought of a question which put god under the pump.

i think that's what buzz was saying at any rate...someone feel free to bring me back to earth if i've started rambling.

 

[12volt_man]

they are pretty good points, but then, the atheists point of view is that if either are possible it means that god is in some way limited and not all-powerful.

If God is logically consistent, as His nature dictates He must be and as the Bible teaches, then the question is not can He, but will He?

God can, in theory, do anything He likes but to destroy matter, create a rock so big He can't lift it, create a square circle or any of those things would be to violate His nature.

The question is not can God do this or that, but can a logically consistent God behave in an illogical manner?

 

[ServantofTheOne]

I would respond by asking the atheist to answer this question before i answer his.

Can something be created from nothing?

 

[Buzz Dixon]

I don't know if these are good arguments, but that's my attempt.

Sorry, but they're not good arguments. In fact, we are charged to become fools for Christ in order that we may gain true wisdom. The wiser a human thinks he or she is, the more foolish they are in reality.

The Greeks called that sin hubris.

 

[ahman]

hey, be nice buzz, they were good attempts, and no more foolish than my original answer.

i think they are good starts, and that with the contributions of other people here, that he will learn, just as you did. encouragement is good, criticism, unless it's constructive, and yours wasn't really, is not needed.

how about you tell him why his arguments were not good and say that it was a goot try?

 

[Lifesaver]

God is omnipotent. That means that, among other things, He can destroy any rock.
Therefore, every rock, without exception, is "destroyable by God".

Something that is destroyable by God and cannot be destroyed by God is a contradiction in terms. It does not mean anything.
It is just like saying "married bachelor" or even "fbgh&8ulçç".

Can God make fbgh&8ulçç?
Depending on how this is interpreted, the answer may be either "no" or "not applicable", but the result is the same: that in now way means God is not omnipotent. Omnipotent means that He can do anything. A rock that He can't destroy is not a thing. It is nothing. Noise without a meaning.

 

[Buzz Dixon]

hey, be nice buzz, they were good attempts, and no more foolish than my original answer.

I AM being nice. See this? That's my nice face.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

They got a million of them. Someone on the "how to talk to an atheist" thread really broke it down nicely, something like this;

Can you really say God has limits because of an inability to impose limits on an unlimited attribute? Most will reasonably answer no of course not. The other point is whether or not being all-something is a limit in itself. Again most would have to admit it is not a limit to be all-powerful, or all-good...etc. All such hypotheticals mocking our beliefs about God's attributes can usually be broken down into these two points.

 

[NanakiFFVII]

My answer to that question would be yes God can create a rock he can't destroy, but he can also destroy it. It's duality, which is something we can observe in nature. Are electrons particles or waves? Yes. They behave like both even though particles and waves act very differently. Depending on various situations they will act either as either particles or waves. So I would answer it like that. If the situation is can he create it? the answer is yes. If the situation is can he destroy it? the answer is yes.

 

[ahman]

I AM being nice. See this? That's my nice face.

good to see, now if we all had a nice face and some nice words to accompany it....and a rock we couldn't destroy, the world would be a better place

amen. peace to all.