Can Freedom of Speech be Bad?

[Christsfreeservant]

Romans 5:3-5 ESV

“Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.”​

Freedom of Speech

A lot of people are pushing for freedom of speech, but is that all good? Yes, it is wonderful to have the freedom to share our beliefs, but if we actually got total freedom of speech in our nations, do you know what that might look like? I mean, freedom of speech is the right to express ANY opinions without censorship or restraint. Is that really what we want?

What if everyone could say whatever they wanted whenever or wherever they wanted with no restraint at all, with no rules whatsoever governing what they say? All hell could break loose! We would have to isolate ourselves and our children from all outside influences in order to protect our eyes and ears and their eyes and ears from seeing and hearing the utter filth of the world. And people could say to us whatever they wanted with no restraint.

Right now, as far as I can tell, most social media sites or blogging sites or other discussion sites, where people can express their opinions, thoughts, and beliefs on various subjects, have rules of etiquette and propriety and respect. Most appear to have reasonable guidelines in order to avoid an absolute free-for-all and utter chaos, and some sites will allow you to set your own guidelines as far as what you want to or don’t want to see or hear.

But what if we all had total freedom of speech with no restraint and no censorship (no controls, no rules, no guidelines)? You see, I think sometimes we don’t always think these things all the way through. For, it is a lot like those who are pushing for prayer to be back in schools, but what about those not of the Christian faith? Are we to force our beliefs on them? No! And do we want them to force their beliefs on us? No!

What would then keep the schools from allowing any religion to force their beliefs on the students? Would you want Satanists to have the right to force your children to pray to Satan? We have to not be so quick to “jump on the bandwagon” of a lot of these things that sound good, in theory, but that could open up a whole world of evil we don’t want, in practice.

So, just saying that if we have total freedom of speech, which sounds like a good thing, with no restraints or censorship at all, then it could backfire on us, and we could end up with what we don’t want at all. For a society to operate properly, there has to be rules, but the rules should be general rules of decency and respect and not be rules that force us to have to watch, read, and/or listen to what we object to in our own consciences.

So, freedom of speech, even though it sounds good, could be a door wide open into increased public persecution of Christians or any group of people whose beliefs or opinions differ from theirs. Freedom of speech, thus, could actually increase our suffering, as people would then have the freedom to say to us whatever they wanted, without restraint, and there would be no rules and/or moderators to stop them from doing so.

Suffering for Our Good

But then here is another aspect of this. The Scriptures teach us that suffering is for our good. And actually, when the church is under persecution, historically that has actually been a good thing for their spiritual growth and for the advancement of the gospel and for the salvation of human lives. For when we are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, it motivates us to draw closer to our Lord and to listen to and to obey him and to want to share the gospel with others because we know that time is short.

So, although being persecuted for righteousness’ sake is painful, having too much freedom with no persecution at all can lead us to spiritual apathy and laziness and to being lukewarm in our Christian faith and practice. So, if this “freedom of speech” actually increases our persecution, it might actually be a blessing in disguise for the American churches who have largely gone the way of the world and who are not being the light of the world and the salt of the earth that God called them to be.

We know that the Scriptures teach that we who follow Jesus Christ with our lives will be persecuted, and those of us who are following the Lord with wholehearted devotion are being persecuted, to some extent here in America. But overall the American church has not had to suffer the kind of persecution for their faith that the church has had to suffer in many other nations throughout the world, but that will change, most certainly.

If we are paying attention, we can see where things are moving, and they are not moving in the direction of what is good, but what is evil, and so we know that Christians will soon, or in the near future, begin to experience increased persecution for their faith in Jesus Christ here in America. It is inevitable, because it has been moving that direction for some time, and because the Scriptures teach that persecution will increase in these last days, and this increased “freedom of speech” could be one of the avenues.

But, again, when this happens, we have to remember that this is for our good, and we need to let the Lord Jesus do in our lives what he wants to do in our lives through this persecution. In fact, we are to rejoice in our persecution and in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance and character and true hope. And many who are living now in spiritual adultery or apathy right now will be revived in their walks of faith.

And we need to see this persecution, as well, as God’s love being poured out on us because discipline is for our good to grow us and to mature us in our walks of faith and so that we will be on fire for the Lord, and so we will be sharing the truth of the gospel with the people of the world for their salvation. So, when persecution increases, yield your lives over to the Lord and let the Lord do his work in your hearts and lives he wants to do for his glory and for your spiritual maturity, and walk by faith and not by sight.

[Rom 5:3-5; Phil 3:7-11; 1 Pet 1:6-7; 1 Pet 4:12-17; 1 Thess 3:1-5; Jas 1:2-4; Matt 5:10-12; Lu 21:12-19; 2 Co 1:3-11; Heb 12:3-12; Jn 15:1-11]

Trust Him

An Original Work / August 15, 2012
Based off Psalm 27:14

Wait for the Lord; be of courage;
Be strong and take heart today.
Do not fear when foes attack you.
Trust in God always.
He will rescue you in times
Of trouble and distress,
He’ll comfort you in all ways
As you trust Him with your life today.
Trust in Him always.

God is with you; He’ll not leave you.
You can always count on Him.
He will fulfill all He promised
Before you began.
His word teaches you
All that you need for this life.
Let Him lead you. Open your heart;
Let his truth envelope you today.
Listen and obey.

Love your Lord God; follow Jesus.
Repent of your sins today.
Make Him your Lord and your master;
Trust Him and obey.
Follow Him where’er He leads you
In His service; be His witness,
Telling others about Jesus’
Price that He did pay
For your sins always.

 

[1an]

Romans 5:3-5 ESV

“Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.”​

Freedom of Speech

A lot of people are pushing for freedom of speech, but is that all good? Yes, it is wonderful to have the freedom to share our beliefs, but if we actually got total freedom of speech in our nations, do you know what that might look like? I mean, freedom of speech is the right to express ANY opinions without censorship or restraint. Is that really what we want?

What if everyone could say whatever they wanted whenever or wherever they wanted with no restraint at all, with no rules whatsoever governing what they say? All hell could break loose! We would have to isolate ourselves and our children from all outside influences in order to protect our eyes and ears and their eyes and ears from seeing and hearing the utter filth of the world. And people could say to us whatever they wanted with no restraint.

Right now, as far as I can tell, most social media sites or blogging sites or other discussion sites, where people can express their opinions, thoughts, and beliefs on various subjects, have rules of etiquette and propriety and respect. Most appear to have reasonable guidelines in order to avoid an absolute free-for-all and utter chaos, and some sites will allow you to set your own guidelines as far as what you want to or don’t want to see or hear.

But what if we all had total freedom of speech with no restraint and no censorship (no controls, no rules, no guidelines)? You see, I think sometimes we don’t always think these things all the way through. For, it is a lot like those who are pushing for prayer to be back in schools, but what about those not of the Christian faith? Are we to force our beliefs on them? No! And do we want them to force their beliefs on us? No!

What would then keep the schools from allowing any religion to force their beliefs on the students? Would you want Satanists to have the right to force your children to pray to Satan? We have to not be so quick to “jump on the bandwagon” of a lot of these things that sound good, in theory, but that could open up a whole world of evil we don’t want, in practice.

So, just saying that if we have total freedom of speech, which sounds like a good thing, with no restraints or censorship at all, then it could backfire on us, and we could end up with what we don’t want at all. For a society to operate properly, there has to be rules, but the rules should be general rules of decency and respect and not be rules that force us to have to watch, read, and/or listen to what we object to in our own consciences.

So, freedom of speech, even though it sounds good, could be a door wide open into increased public persecution of Christians or any group of people whose beliefs or opinions differ from theirs. Freedom of speech, thus, could actually increase our suffering, as people would then have the freedom to say to us whatever they wanted, without restraint, and there would be no rules and/or moderators to stop them from doing so.

Suffering for Our Good

But then here is another aspect of this. The Scriptures teach us that suffering is for our good. And actually, when the church is under persecution, historically that has actually been a good thing for their spiritual growth and for the advancement of the gospel and for the salvation of human lives. For when we are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, it motivates us to draw closer to our Lord and to listen to and to obey him and to want to share the gospel with others because we know that time is short.

So, although being persecuted for righteousness’ sake is painful, having too much freedom with no persecution at all can lead us to spiritual apathy and laziness and to being lukewarm in our Christian faith and practice. So, if this “freedom of speech” actually increases our persecution, it might actually be a blessing in disguise for the American churches who have largely gone the way of the world and who are not being the light of the world and the salt of the earth that God called them to be.

We know that the Scriptures teach that we who follow Jesus Christ with our lives will be persecuted, and those of us who are following the Lord with wholehearted devotion are being persecuted, to some extent here in America. But overall the American church has not had to suffer the kind of persecution for their faith that the church has had to suffer in many other nations throughout the world, but that will change, most certainly.

If we are paying attention, we can see where things are moving, and they are not moving in the direction of what is good, but what is evil, and so we know that Christians will soon, or in the near future, begin to experience increased persecution for their faith in Jesus Christ here in America. It is inevitable, because it has been moving that direction for some time, and because the Scriptures teach that persecution will increase in these last days, and this increased “freedom of speech” could be one of the avenues.

But, again, when this happens, we have to remember that this is for our good, and we need to let the Lord Jesus do in our lives what he wants to do in our lives through this persecution. In fact, we are to rejoice in our persecution and in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance and character and true hope. And many who are living now in spiritual adultery or apathy right now will be revived in their walks of faith.

And we need to see this persecution, as well, as God’s love being poured out on us because discipline is for our good to grow us and to mature us in our walks of faith and so that we will be on fire for the Lord, and so we will be sharing the truth of the gospel with the people of the world for their salvation. So, when persecution increases, yield your lives over to the Lord and let the Lord do his work in your hearts and lives he wants to do for his glory and for your spiritual maturity, and walk by faith and not by sight.

[Rom 5:3-5; Phil 3:7-11; 1 Pet 1:6-7; 1 Pet 4:12-17; 1 Thess 3:1-5; Jas 1:2-4; Matt 5:10-12; Lu 21:12-19; 2 Co 1:3-11; Heb 12:3-12; Jn 15:1-11]

Trust Him

An Original Work / August 15, 2012
Based off Psalm 27:14

Wait for the Lord; be of courage;
Be strong and take heart today.
Do not fear when foes attack you.
Trust in God always.
He will rescue you in times
Of trouble and distress,
He’ll comfort you in all ways
As you trust Him with your life today.
Trust in Him always.

God is with you; He’ll not leave you.
You can always count on Him.
He will fulfill all He promised
Before you began.
His word teaches you
All that you need for this life.
Let Him lead you. Open your heart;
Let his truth envelope you today.
Listen and obey.

Love your Lord God; follow Jesus.
Repent of your sins today.
Make Him your Lord and your master;
Trust Him and obey.
Follow Him where’er He leads you
In His service; be His witness,
Telling others about Jesus’
Price that He did pay
For your sins always.

I am sorry, but I do not read long posts, but my two penny-worth is this.

If the free speaker is proposing something that is harmful, Hitler comes to mind, then imo, free speach is extremely harmful and should be banned.

Mind you, I also blame the audience for going along with it. IMO they are equally culpable.

If everyone followed the teaching of Jesus the world would be a far better place, but we live in a wicked world. Unfortunately.
.

 

[Katania]

Being outside the US, when I first began posting on the Internet a couple of decades ago I was quite taken aback by the American libertarian approach to free speech. Particularly when it came to issues like people who trolled or verbally abused others in very cruel ways, and also when it came to the subject of pornography. It seemed to me that there was a constant testing of boundaries similar to the way a child tests boundaries.

In Europe we have a convention of human rights (UK, where I live, is still bound by this despite Brexit). The most important rights being freedom from torture & slavery, and the right to life. Free speech is not an absolute right. Rather, it's one of a number of important human rights to be balanced against each other - and much of the potential risks of free speech you refer to are mitigated by emphasising the existence & importance of other competing rights.

I think a lot of people out there are exercising their free speech at every opportunity - and, in doing so, perhaps doing themselves and their causes more harm than good. Proverb 18 warns us about that. With regard to being persecuted for expressing Christian beliefs, I haven't experienced that. I've been ridiculed a bit, and one friend has distanced herself. I've said little about Christianity other than that it's helped me personally, and I believe the actions of those people were ignorant - but not persecutory. Those people were also, without exception, people who are very opinionated - even on subjects they know very little about.

I do feel that the New Testament provides authority for not pushing our views on others who disagree and aren't interested in discussion. It's a good general rule for life that a lot of atheists could probably benefit from. In a society where there are clashes of different belief systems and also lots of non believers, I think a comprehensive list of human rights and a sound legal tradition in which those rights are very carefully weighed against each other by as impartial a judge as possible is a good safeguard against the risks unfettered speech could pose.

 

[TobiaAJoshua]

the problem with the argument that freedom of speech only applies to some and not to others would only come haunt us Christians

 

[Christsfreeservant]

the problem with the argument that freedom of speech only applies to some and not to others would only come haunt us Christians

True, but no rules and everything wide open would be like what Pinocchio experienced on that island. He learned that some rules and restraints can be for our protection.

 

[Katania]

the problem with the argument that freedom of speech only applies to some and not to others would only come haunt us Christians

I meant in terms of not demanding others share our beliefs. When, however, others demand we share their beliefs then I think an assertive approach is called for.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Being outside the US, when I first began posting on the Internet a couple of decades ago I was quite taken aback by the American libertarian approach to free speech. Particularly when it came to issues like people who trolled or verbally abused others in very cruel ways, and also when it came to the subject of pornography. It seemed to me that there was a constant testing of boundaries similar to the way a child tests boundaries.

In Europe we have a convention of human rights (UK, where I live, is still bound by this despite Brexit). The most important rights being freedom from torture & slavery, and the right to life. Free speech is not an absolute right. Rather, it's one of a number of important human rights to be balanced against each other - and much of the potential risks of free speech you refer to are mitigated by emphasising the existence & importance of other competing rights.

I think a lot of people out there are exercising their free speech at every opportunity - and, in doing so, perhaps doing themselves and their causes more harm than good. Proverb 18 warns us about that. With regard to being persecuted for expressing Christian beliefs, I haven't experienced that. I've been ridiculed a bit, and one friend has distanced herself. I've said little about Christianity other than that it's helped me personally, and I believe the actions of those people were ignorant - but not persecutory. Those people were also, without exception, people who are very opinionated - even on subjects they know very little about.

I do feel that the New Testament provides authority for not pushing our views on others who disagree and aren't interested in discussion. It's a good general rule for life that a lot of atheists could probably benefit from. In a society where there are clashes of different belief systems and also lots of non believers, I think a comprehensive list of human rights and a sound legal tradition in which those rights are very carefully weighed against each other by as impartial a judge as possible is a good safeguard against the risks unfettered speech could pose.

Thank you, Katina. I appreciate all you said. And I agree we should never force anyone to have to listen to what they don't want to hear, but the Scriptures definitely teach that Christians must be sharing their faith with others as Jesus and his NT apostles did. And true Christians should not reject the Scriptures.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Thank you, Katina. I appreciate all you said. And I agree we should never force anyone to have to listen to what they don't want to hear, but the Scriptures definitely teach that Christians must be sharing their faith with others as Jesus and his NT apostles did. And true Christians should not reject the Scriptures.

and when necessary, use words. s

just a quick note to say “fair thee well” take care! have enjoyed all my fellow travellers very much. the rest is up up to you, and you, and you. Speech is often over rater, where silence says it best, especially when not picking up a guilt ball meant to force others into action.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I am sorry, but I do not read long posts, but my two penny-worth is this.

If the free speaker is proposing something that is harmful, Hitler comes to mind, then imo, free speach is extremely harmful and should be banned.

Mind you, I also blame the audience for going along with it. IMO they are equally culpable.

If everyone followed the teaching of Jesus the world would be a far better place, but we live in a wicked world. Unfortunately.
.

IMO, if a post is too long for you to read, read another one that is shorter. There are plenty of short posts on this site. And if you don't bother to read what someone posts, then out of respect for that poster, don't respond to what you didn't bother to read, and especially don't begin by insulting the poster by telling him or her that the post was too long and therefore, not only did you not bother to read it, but you are going to respond to it anyway. That is not following the teaching of Jesus. Just asking for a little respect here. Thank you.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

One solution may be trying to sort Churchanese from the common language and culture. IE: from meanings in the physical (the shadow of the spiritual belief) and transform the thought into the spiritual application from God to the world, so that everyone receives the same massage. Churchanese can be VERY biased, the spiritual message CANNOT, it is impossible.

From Peter’s teaching we find that God restricts teachers to what is heard from God. That is why the early church each brought something from their gift. I’m supposing the whole message was derived from the parts.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

True, but no rules and everything wide open would be like what Pinocchio experienced on that island. He learned that some rules and restraints can be for our protection.

the only sign that Jesus put forth was the sign of Jonah, oddly found only(iirc) in Grim’s Gaspeti (sp?) (Pinocchios dad) *_* & one place only that Jesus didn’t refer to the OT writings

 

[rocknanchor]

The constant repetition of an immoral maxim may lead to immoral life. Words that seem harmless, because they float lightly like thistledown, may bear in them a seed of evil which may take root and bring forth evil fruit. - Ellicott​

Still, I don't wish to separate, as this ‘freedom’ comes to all as 2-fold, the forms of freedom of speech and freedom of conduct and for the redeemed, grace has a history of abounding more.

Without sufficient liberty of speech, the marketplace of ideas suffers limitations (resulting convictions by the Holy Spirit).

Without following sufficient liberty of conduct, such as in the well-known phrase, “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness”, (glorifying God in our bodies), as you mentioned our cultural norms of morality are in a downward trend as they note the upright resistance as “cynical”.

But speech and conduct have their part in the Christian response in a fallen world,

For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men – (1 Peter 2:15)​

If that choice is their determined stay of rebellion, then they will have to pay horribly for it,

Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us. (1 Peter 2:12)​

 

[Christsfreeservant]

The constant repetition of an immoral maxim may lead to immoral life. Words that seem harmless, because they float lightly like thistledown, may bear in them a seed of evil which may take root and bring forth evil fruit. - Ellicott​

Still, I don't wish to separate, as this ‘freedom’ comes to all as 2-fold, the forms of freedom of speech and freedom of conduct and for the redeemed, grace has a history of abounding more.

Without sufficient liberty of speech, the marketplace of ideas suffers limitations (resulting convictions by the Holy Spirit).

Without following sufficient liberty of conduct, such as in the well-known phrase, “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness”, (glorifying God in our bodies), as you mentioned our cultural norms of morality are in a downward trend as they note the upright resistance as “cynical”.

But speech and conduct have their part in the Christian response in a fallen world,

For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men – (1 Peter 2:15)​

If that choice is their determined stay of rebellion, then they will have to pay horribly for it,

Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us. (1 Peter 2:12)​

The point of the post was to point out the fallacy of having absolute and total freedom of speech with no restrictions and no restraints. Yes, we want to have freedom of speech, but there does need to be rules of etiquette and mutual respect which allow for expression of one's beliefs while not causing undue harm to others. I think the moderators do a good job on CF of moderating such situations, from what I have witnessed. And from what I can tell, I believe their rules are fair, so far anyway.

 

[Katania]

I think the moderators do a good job on CF of moderating such situations, from what I have witnessed. And from what I can tell, I believe their rules are fair, so far anyway.

As a newcomer to the site, I agree. I spent a bit of time looking through the site guidance on first joining, and it seems that a fair bit of thought has been put into promoting free but respectful speech.

A site I used to post on became restrictive to the point where in a very short time it went from being a busy site to one where what little discussion did take place was soon brought to a close. Despite the regulars on the site generally behaving like courteous adults, for some reason the moderators felt unable to trust them/us to handle discussion about even the most vaguely controversial issues. A great shame, when that happens.

 

[rocknanchor]

The point of the post was to point out the fallacy of having absolute and total freedom of speech with no restrictions and no restraints. Yes, we want to have freedom of speech, but there does need to be rules of etiquette and mutual respect which allow for expression of one's beliefs while not causing undue harm to others. I think the moderators do a good job on CF of moderating such situations, from what I have witnessed. And from what I can tell, I believe their rules are fair, so far anyway.

Oh, now I think I see, you meant for this to be CF site-wide and not gov't laws protecting free speech?

 

[Christsfreeservant]

As a newcomer to the site, I agree. I spent a bit of time looking through the site guidance on first joining, and it seems that a fair bit of thought has been put into promoting free but respectful speech.

A site I used to post on became restrictive to the point where in a very short time it went from being a busy site to one where what little discussion did take place was soon brought to a close. Despite the regulars on the site generally behaving like courteous adults, for some reason the moderators felt unable to trust them/us to handle discussion about even the most vaguely controversial issues. A great shame, when that happens.

Thank you, Katania, for sharing that. Yes, I have been on some other sites which were not good in how they handled things, and I agree with you that CF does a good job of promoting free but respectful speech.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Oh, now I think I see, you meant for this to be CF site-wide and not gov't laws protecting free speech?

No, I was just citing how CF did things as a good example of how things ought to be done. I think they do a good job here of promoting free but respectful speech and that their rules are fair, as far as I have experienced. But my main point was that, in seeking after "free speech" we have to be careful that we don't push it to the other extreme to where it is a free-for-all and there are no rules and no regulations over what can be said or not. There is a balance that must be found and I just cited CF as a good example of one site that appears to handle the subject of free speech in a fair and balanced way.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Oh, now I think I see, you meant for this to be CF site-wide and not gov't laws protecting free speech?

On social media, for example (Twitter and Facebook, in particular), there has been a big battle over free speech with all the fact checkers and people's posts being removed because they apparently did not agree with the official narrative. Censorship is a big issue right now on social media. So there is talk about having "free speech" on Twitter, and so I was examining what that might mean in the purest sense of the definition of "free speech" should we actually get what we think we want, so that we understand what total free speech could look like, and so we understand the importance of rules and regulations, and thus some element of censorship. Now is all censorship and are all rules fair? No!

 

[rocknanchor]

Surprised nothing I said was salvaged. Nonetheless, our views on the current handling of intelligble thought is quite varied, for censorship is now 4-to-5 yrs old. Now, what started in the legacy news medias, picked up by social media has now taken over political rivals inwardly exposing pure dis-information.

Free speech limitations, no thanks!