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Can ChatGPT interpret speaking in tongues?

The Liturgist

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This issue, while not technically topical, does deserve a reply, particularly since we appear to have exhausted the primary subject.

Thus, I feel I should begin by pointing out a fact that many Pentecostal and Charismatic members might find interesting, the rapid growth of the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches was prophesied by Fr. Seraphim Rose in his work Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. Fr. Seraphim, who alas did not take a positive view of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement for a variety of reasons (mostly shared by other Orthodox Christians as well as by the more broad category of traditional liturgical Christians), was converted to Holy Orthodoxy by St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, a wonderworking bishop with many charisma of the sorts I expect Pentecostals and Charismatics appreciate, and also some which I’m not sure if you have experience with or not, for example, bilocation.

Now, that being said, the growth rates of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox are rising to meet and in many cases exceed that of the various Penetecostal denominations, for all our churches are growing with the exception of the Greek Orthodox (who due to gross mismanagement from the Ecumenical Patriarchate are shrinking in most jurisdictions except those of Jerusalem and Alexandria and All Africa, where our missions are bearing fruit) are now outpacing the Pentecostals due to the miraculous conversion rates since the end of the Pandemic, with 18% annual growth rates not being uncommon. This is both from conversion (alienated conservative members of mainline denominations such as the UMC, ECUSA and C of E, and of non-Christians including Atheists and other adherents of various forms of nihilist irreligious superstition, Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons, adherents of African religions, unchurched people), and from the very high reproductive rate of the Orthodox, who prohibit all abortion and contraception and strongly discourage divorce, and promote celibacy as the only alternative to marriage, in the context of various forms of religious vocation.

In the case of Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, we can attribute their growth to a number of factors including disillusionment of conservative Latin Americans with the increasingly liberal Roman Catholic hierarchy*, a strategic decision which paid off to focus on missions in Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines and other Asian countries outside the communist yoke which experienced explosive economic and population growth, but this growth has now stalled**, and most denominations have not had much success evangelizing the Japanese***, and the aggressive proselytization of people in the US, Australia, the UK and other countries who have been alienated by the liberalism of the mainline Protestant denominations and the scandals and increased liberalism in most of the Roman Catholic Church (where most of the growing congregations are those associated with the Traditional Latin Mass or other forms of conservative worship, which have suffered from reprisals against the TLM communities enacted by the late Pope Francis, and by various theologically liberal bishops; conversely, the more conservative dioceses tend to be doing better in terms of membership and attendance).

One other major factor of growth in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement has been the recent growth of various non-denominational churches, megachurches, seeker-sensitive churches and related churches that are primarily evangelical in character yet which have a charismatic component, a growth which is now slowing dramatically. These churches, which include both non-denominational churches as well as new denominations such as the Calvary Chapel, Harvest Fellowship, the Vineyard churches and so on, tend to be most closely related to Baptists in character, with no real trace of the Methodist, Wesleyan or Holiness Movement connections we see in mainstream Pentecostal denominations. These churches I would argue are not primarily charismatic but rather engage in charismatic worship to the extent that it contributes to their popularity, but their main defining feature tends to be the use of highly informal worship centered around expositionary preaching, usually determined either on the basis of lectio selecta (arbitrary lessons taught by the pastor) or lectio continua (reading the “entire Bible” sans those books which are unpopular among most Protestants aside from the Anglicans and some Lutherans), interspersed with “Christian rock” and “praise and worship” music, which members frequently dance to. These churches naturally are in a position to facilitate certain types of Pentecostal practices (for example “shaking in the spirit”).



I am not surprised that the main engagement for converts is now among those denominations which admit the possibility of divine gifts and the miraculous, such as the Orthodox, the traditional Roman Catholics, charismatic Catholics and Protestants, and the Pentecostals and other non-Cessationist denominations. The rejection of a belief in the miraculous which underscores Cessationism does not reflect accurately the reality of the past 1,967 years of Christian history, which have been permeated with continual histories from Apostolic times until the present of wonderworking Christians who through the grace of the Holy Spirit have been allowed to heal diseases, prophesy, communicate in languages not previously known to them, survive otherwise lethal attacks upon their person, appear in multiple places simultaneously, and appear even after having reposed in our Lord in order to provide for the pastoral well being and spiritual nourishment of the faithful. The main question therefore is whether or not the Orthodox and traditional Catholic understanding of these gifts as something that occurs primarily within the context of asceticism or monasticism or within pastoral offices within the Church, as the fruits of a life of prayer and devotion, whereby those among us who would lead are better able to serve, and thus the first may make themselves the last, by having additional means of taking care of the laity whose vocation is within the care of their family and other considerations of an important nature other than a life dedicated entirely to prayer or the spread of the Gospel (basically, the different forms of martyrdom as recognized in Celtic Christianity: the red martyrdom of the blood shed by martyrs and confessors and that is risked by those who confess Christ before men, the white martyrdom of the purity of holy matrimony and the green martyrdom, symbolic of the new life in Christ, of those monastics who dedicate themselves to prayer, or whether other interpretations such as those proposed by the various Charismatic movements.
* Latin America has also turned into a fertile ground for new converts to Holy Orthodoxy, both Eastern and Oriental, for example, there exists in Guatemala a large Syriac Orthodox community among the Mayans, and in Brazil a large Orthodox community under the omophorion of the Orthodox Church of Poland (which was related to the Portuguese Orthodox Church, which was formed under Polish supervision, but has since become schismatic, whereas fortunately the Orthodox in Brazil have not engaged in schism).

** Fortunately, the Orthodox also invested in these areas, albeit not to the same extent, and there also existed jurisdictional confusion resulting, like most jurisdictional confusion in Holy Orthodoxy, from the complex state of affairs resulting from the rise of what Ronald Reagan aptly called “the empire of evil”, that being the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which caused schisms in the Russian and Armenian churches and through its proxies also caused the persecution of the Ethiopians among the Oriental Orthodox and the Bulgarian, Romanian, Polish and Serbian churches, and in the case of the fanatical regime of Enver Hoxha in Albania, the death of nearly all Albanian Orthodox clergy who remained in the country along with their Roman Catholic and Protestant brethren, as well as nearly all leaders of the Sunni and Bektasi Sufi sects and of other religions present in Albania, for Hoxha attempted to suppress all religion; this failed, as witnessed by the glorious rebirth of the Albanian Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant churches after his death, portions of which had been kept alive by expatriates in Italy, the United States and elsewhere. At any rate, this confusion has now largely passed and we are experiencing a good rate of growth in Korea, the Republic of China, Hong Kong and other Asian countries not underneath the communist yoke.

*** In Japan the Japanese Orthodox Church, established in the 19th century by Russian and Ukrainian missionaries, has lately been experiencing fairly consistent growth, with a Romanian-supported parish recently receiving permission to build a new cemetery (something highly unusual in Japan, a country which unfortunately cremates most of its deceased, an approach which is obviously grossly unacceptable to the Orthodox, who believe that except where mandated by the government, the deceased should be buried, since cremation, while by no means threatening God’s ability to resurrect the deceased, for God is omnipotent and can resurrect anyone regardless of the condition, or lack thereof, of their relics, represents unacceptable violence to the image of God that is born by every human being.
 
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The Liturgist

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Its not God that needs is, its us, it bypasses the limitations of human vocabulary.

If that were a concern surely the Gospels in general, and the Lord’s Prayer in particular, would not have been composed in Koine Greek, nor would they contain quotes of our Lord speaking in Judean or Gallilean neo-Aramaic.
 
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ARBITER01

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Its not God that needs is, its us, it bypasses the limitations of human vocabulary.

Correct.

Faith leaps beyond logic. Some things from GOD are not understandable by our minds.
 
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ARBITER01

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I have noticed people on this forum dont argue with you. Whats your secret?

Oh they like to argue with me a lot, to the point that I have a healthy ignore list.

I just try to interject what truth I have knowledge of into subjects and try to stay out of ones that are not really relevant. In other words I try to stay in my lane.
 
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ARBITER01

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tldr

You really should learn how to condense things better. I can't sit here and eat my SpaghettiOs and answer all the different subjects and rabbit trails you fill up in your replies.
 
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The Liturgist

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tldr

You really should learn how to condense things better. I can't sit here and eat my SpaghettiOs and answer all the different subjects and rabbit trails you fill up in your replies.

Well I suppose my main points were that (1) the continued growth of your denomination was prophesied in the 1970s by an Orthodox abbot, Fr. Seraphim Rose, in Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future, (2) that lately the Orthodox Church has also been experiencing explosive growth, and (3) that it seems to me reasonable that in our materialistic, nihilistic era people will favor those denominations which believe in the miraculous based on the 1,967 year history of the Church being filled with those gifted with supernatural ability by the Holy Spirit, as opposed to cessationist denominations.
 
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ARBITER01

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They've tried their hardest over the years to stomp out Pentecostals and the like, and it has not worked.
 
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JulieB67

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Its not God that needs is, its us, it bypasses the limitations of human vocabulary.
Again, no offense to anyone but I'm just not seeing that in these verses.

I Corinthians 14:14 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."

I Corinthians 14:15 "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

What you see as an endorsement I see the exact opposite. I see Paul stating that when he prays and sings in the spirit he will do so with understanding. We have to be in tune. Or as he states it's unfruitful. Which is the point of this entire chapter more or less.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this....
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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As a matter of interest ChatGTP can write in Pentecostal style tongues. I asked Copilot to provide a paragraph in such tonhues, this is what it gave:
I asked "type a paragraph in simulated Pentecostal tongues, please" and Copilot gave:
Certainly. Here is a paragraph that simulates glossolalia in the style often associated with Pentecostal worship—crafted to evoke the rhythm, phonetic texture, and spiritual fervour of such utterances, while remaining respectful and imaginative:
Shandala makoré vashanta ralamandé! Ikaraba sotoriam, elandriya vashekoto! Halama shundaraya, tikoré balandé, hoshania! Rikaraba sundalé, emandriya toshakaya, halelé! Vashundra kalamandé, shakaraya! Hoshania, hoshania, tikoré balandé!
This is not a translation of any known language, nor does it carry semantic meaning in the conventional sense. Rather, it mimics the cadence and emotive flow of glossolalia—often experienced as a spontaneous, Spirit-led expression beyond linguistic structure. If you wish, I can also explore theological interpretations of glossolalia across traditions, or generate a fictional liturgical context in which such utterances might appear.
It is interesting, I hope it doesn't offend anybody. It is just what Copilot gave in response to my request.
 
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FenderTL5

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It kinda' reminds me of a lyric from a charismatic singer/entertainer who once called it, "untie my bowtie, who stole my honda stuff"
 

RDKirk

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It kinda' reminds me of a lyric from a charismatic singer/entertainer who once called it, "untie my bowtie, who stole my honda stuff"
I know that reference.

I have a healing miracle testimony connected to that guy.
 
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Rose_bud

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If that were a concern surely the Gospels in general, and the Lord’s Prayer in particular, would not have been composed in Koine Greek, nor would they contain quotes of our Lord speaking in Judean or Gallilean neo-Aramaic.
I don't think anyone is saying that natural languages are not required. The point is that their is a gift of tongues that transcends the natural understanding of how we communicate with God.

I was listening to a song earlier by a Nigerian singer, never heard of him before..
But the lyrics captured my attention.

Who is like you Oh God, Who is like you.
The weight of who You are... no words can carry. Who is like you Oh God. Who is like you.

It's nothing like the liturgical style worship you may be accustomed too. But I believe God makes room for every expression of worship that exalts His name.
 
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Rose_bud

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I Corinthians 14:15 "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."
 
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ARBITER01

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I don't find it offending, just funny on the one hand and stupid on the other.

Spiritual things are not understood by material means. Spiritual things go beyond the limitations of the mind hence, why they can't be understood apart from a person being filled with The Holy Spirit and receiving them in the process.

People can talk about it all they want, but they will never really know about them without pursuing them from GOD and receiving them.
 
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The Liturgist

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On the contrary, the Nigerian song you are singing basically echoes an extremely large number of ancient Christian hymns which in turn are echoing several of the Psalms and other Canticles, for example, the Magnificat. My main complaint about the hymn you are quoting is that it is rather repetitive and also it doesn’t sound like it contains much doctrine beyond the principle of divine inscrutability.

Additionally, some Charismatic and Pentecostal worship actually does closely resemble liturgical worship, for example, that of Roman Catholics who are invested in the Charismatic movement (there was also an attempt to introduce Charismatic practices into the Orthodox church but we rejected it).

On that point, how much liturgical worship have you actually experienced, and where? Because in my experience many people who make sweeping generalizations about liturgical worship have only limited experience with it, which often is limited to the semi-liturgical worship of some of the mainline churches (for example, the United Methodist Book of Worship), or is else limited to an experience of Roman Catholic worship since the 1969 change to the liturgy; most former Catholics I know left the Roman church after 1969 and their dim view of the Roman mass is of the post-1969 Roman mass, for they never had an opportunity to experience the old Tridentine Mass in all of its splendor (indeed, by 1968 the Tridentine mass had been highly compromised; there was a revision to the missal in 1965 which actually implemented the changes desired by Vatican II, but this did not stop Annibale Bugnini from carrying out his revision to the Roman mass, which made the Roman liturgy very close to Protestant liturgies; indeed, it would become closer since after 1969, the mainline Protestant churches adopted the Common Lectionary, a three year lectionary based on the 1969 Roman lectionary, and later the Revised Common Lectionary which remains in use today, and this is where the practice of having Year A focused on the Gospel According to St. Matthew, Year B focused on the Gospel According to St. Mark and Year C focused on the Gospel According to St. Luke originated from. Before this lectionary, all Christian churches that used lectionaries (which was nearly all of them aside from some Baptist, Reformed and Radical Reformed churches) all used one year lectionaries, which remain the norm in the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian churches as well as in certain liturgically traditional Anglican, Catholic, Lutheran and other Western curches.

These new three year lectionaries are highly defective; they were instituted ostensibly to increase the amount of scripture heard in church on a Sunday, but have the effect of omitting some of the most popular and moving pericopes from the Gospels and the Epistles, for example, the pericope from the Gospel According to John “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” is missing, as is 1 Corinthians 11:27-34, which warns of the consequences of partaking of the Eucharist unworthily, not discerning the body and blood of Christ our True God, which was historically read along with the institution narrative from that same chapter on Maundy Thursday in Holy Week (both by churches which believe in the real presence such as Lutherans and Roman Catholics, and by churches which officially do not require such a belief and at one time opposed it, for example, the Anglicans)*.

* There was always at least a minority of Anglicans who did believe in the Real Presence, despite attempts to discourage them such as the infamous Black Rubric in the 1662 Book of Common Prayer, which remains the official version still in use in the Church of England; the reason it remains the official reason is because, while in the 1920s a majority of Anglicans desired a reform of the Book of Common Prayer according to high churchmanship - High Church Anglicans tend to believe either in a physical or spiritual presence of Christ in the Eucharist, among other differences, which would have removed the Black Rubric, the minority of Low Church members conspired with non-Anglican Protestants in the House of Commons to veto the adoption of the 1928 BCP, which at the time Parliament was able to do - the Church of England did not gain legal autonomy over its liturgical affairs until the 1950s or 60s. In the US, an unrelated Book of Common Prayer was adopted in 1928 by the Protestant Episcopal Church, now known as the Episcopal Church USA, which is much loved, and the ill-advised replacement of this book in 1979 along with other liberal reforms caused a schism, with the Continuing Anglicans consisting of those Anglicans opposed chiefly to the liberal theological direction but also opposed in many cases to the adoption of the 1979 BCP; since that time the Episcopal Church has permitted the continued use of the 1928 book, and has thus avoided further schisms along those lines, but their decision to perform gay marriages caused a massive set of schisms in 2003 resulting in the formation of the Anglican Church in North America and the departure from the Episcopal Church of several dioceses. The Episcopal Church naturally tried to claim their real estate; the DIocese of the San Joaquins in California did not even try to contest it, but in Texas, the Diocese of Fort Worth, and also the Diocese of South Carolina, both have fought it, and in Fort Worth they won control of their property following a supreme court ruling; I don‘t know what the current status is on the case in South Carolina, but if I recall there were some additional complexities there not present in Fort Worth.

The frustrating thing for many conservative Christians, myself included, is that we were, for a time, left with a choice of either attending conservative churches which worshipped in a Charismatic manner or using Christian rock music, which became the norm at the United Methodist parish where I was baptized, or attending other parishes which still used the traditional hymns and the traditional liturgy, such as it was (a service that was by no means ornate, lacking most of the features of the ancient liturgical forms used by the Orthodox), but which were under the control of the liberal clergy. Thus Traditional Liturgical Churches can be seen as an attempt by conservatives to reclaim the liturgical worship we grew up with, and to preserve the oldest and most historically important forms of worship documented in the Christian church.

Thus where as it is an open question whether or not the tongues as reported by Pentecostals and Charismatics correspond precisely to what happened in Acts following the descent of the Holy Spirit and as discussed by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians, we do know with certainty the antiquity and the provenance of the worship used in the Orthodox and Assyrian Divine Liturgies such as those of St. James, St. Basil, St. Mark/St. Cyril, St. John Chrysostom and Saints Addai and Mari (which are, respectively, the ancient liturgies of Jerusalem, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and the Eastern churches founded by St. Thomas in East Syria, Mesopotamia, and India), and in the ancient Roman liturgy (substantial traces of which remain in the Mass as used by the Roman Catholics, some Anglicans, the Western Rite Orthodox and the Lutherans, for example the standard set of hymns beginning with Kyrie Eleison, continuing with Gloria in Excelsis Deo, the Nicene Creed, the Sanctus (which is also shared with all other ancient liturgies) and concluding with the Agnus Dei. There are several other historical liturgies which I did not enumerate which are also still in use, reflecting the ancient worship of Armenia, Ethiopia and Eritrea, Milan, and Toledo, among others.
 
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The Liturgist

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Note that Microsoft Copilot is not ChatGPT. ChatGPT is a product of openAI which in its base model is available for free, but with some limitations, but which in its advanced form becomes a truly elegant AI system, which I have an account for (and I can give you access, since I have a Teams account and am currently not using one of the two user accounts; I had to obtain a minimum of two accounts for Teams, which I needed for its feature set, so I’m actively looking for pious Christians who have ideas on good uses for the other account; anyone interested can send me a message - I should also stress that obviously, it is my intention to make that account available at no charge to whomever I approve for use of it).

I would be interested to know if you got the same results from chatGPT (avaialble on openai.com) or Elon Musk’s Grok (available on x.com), both of which can be accessed free of charge.

There is also Google’s frustratingly dim-witted AI which is now built into the search engine and which excels at producing useless information that I did not ask for nor want along with my search results.
 
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The Liturgist

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They've tried their hardest over the years to stomp out Pentecostals and the like, and it has not worked.

Who has? Certainly not the Orthodox; while it is true we resisted efforts by Charismatics to incorporate Charismatic worship into our churches, we have not persecuted Pentecostal churches. Nor have we made any attempts to get into leadership positions in Pentecostal or Charismatic churches to take them over.
 
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