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What this does tell us, though, is that two types of "tongues" were known to the early church, both "universal language" tongues and ecstatic utterance tongues.
Yes,- in languages that everyone can understand. If not, an interpreter is needed. That was Paul's entire point.
Your flattery is unwarranted! But thank you. My second given name is Andrew. Mom and Dad must have figured I was going to need all the help I could get. LOLIndeed. For example, a fear of holy objects that one is carrying which are not visibly displayed. Out of curiosity have you ever dealt with it? You’re so stout-hearted and indefatigable, I would say you have the perfect temperament to do war with the evil one.
Indeed it is truly meet your name is Mark, for like the Holy Evangelist and enlightener of Alexandria and all Egypt, you can be thought of like a lion and as a disciple of St. Peter the Apostle.
Now, we are talking!!I don’t understand why people can’t sing one of the very many beautiful hymns composed for Christian worship over the last 1,400-1,992 years, or for that matter, the Psalms and Evangelical Canticles.*
Singing incomprehensible non-verbal repetitive patterns when one has such a compelling heritage of Christian worship music in continuous use since time immemorial (in many cases we are not sure exactly how old these hymns are but have only an approximate idea or understanding of when they appeared) just seems wrong. Of course I say the same thing about the use of praise and worship music or Christian rock music, which just strikes me as entirely wrong.
*For example,the Trisagion, Ho Monogenes, Te Deum Laudamus (a favorite of my friend @MarkRohfrietsch ), Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silent, Gloria in Excelsis Deo, Agnus Dei, Phos Hilarion, Haw Nurone (a Syriac Orthodox hymn that is perhaps my favorite due to its Eucharistic content), the Cherubic Hymn, It Is Truly Meet, and All of Creation are all hymns that are on average about 1500 years old (some newer, some older) and most of which exist in several (by which I mean hundreds) of settings), actually, technically one could argue Gloria in Excelsis Deo, Agnus Dei and the Sanctus could fall into the category of evangelical canticles insofar as their content is taken directly from the Gospel text, but the three definite evangelical canticles the Benedictus, Magnificat and the Nunc Dimitis )also known as the Song of Symeon). These together with the Psalms, particularly some Psalms such as Jubilate Deo and Psalms 94, 95, 96, 102, 103 and 106 and Psalms 147, 148, 149 and 150 are extremely heavily used in Christian worship, along with the Old Testament canticles (which include two songs of Moses (the one from Deuteronomy being highly penitential), the song of Habbakuk, Benedicite Omni Opera and a few others, for example the Songs of the Suffering Servent, which are Christological prophecies from Isaiah).
he gift of tongues is not for the preaching of the gospel. Never has been.
This is what people seem not to understand about the miracle on Pentecost.And speaking in tongues (different languages) is certainly a gift of the spirit. But knowing and speaking different languages today is not the same as that pentecostal tongue. Many unbelievers know and speak different languages. And on that pentecostal day if was proof of the Holy Spirit. But no confusion is involved today. If a foreign believer spoke to me on that day, I would hear it in English. That was the point and the proof that something miraculous was happening.
It's important to understand that the Catholic Church teaches the original gift of tongues at Pentecost as a miraculous ability to speak real, unlearned human languages for the purpose of evangelisation. Contemporary Pentecostal expressions—such as glossolalia or ecstatic speech—are not rejected outright, but they are subject to discernment and must align with Church teaching on the Holy Spirit’s authentic action.Can ChatGPT interpret speaking in tongues?
Shawn Bolz, who was recently accused of fabricating prophecies in his ministry, recently shared that it appears OpenAI’s chatbot, ChatGPT, can translate speaking in tongues, also known as glossolalia.
In a recent discussion about God and technology shared on YouTube, Bolz highlighted what is being called the “ChatGPT Tongues Challenge,” which a number of Charismatic and Pentecostal Christians have been engaging in online.
“This week, one of my friends reached out to me who's also a journalist and a writer, and she said, ‘Have you done the ChatGPT tongues thing yet?’ And I said, ‘What are you talking about?’ She goes, ‘I spoke in my prayer language on ChatGPT and it actually interpreted some of my prayer language in different languages around the world,’” Bolz said.
Continued below.
Can ChatGPT interpret speaking in tongues?
Can ChatGPT interpret speaking in tongues Many Charismatic and Pentecostal Christians have been engaging in the ChatGPT Tongues Challenge to see if OpenAI s chatbot can translate speaking in tongues,www.christianpost.com
That was my point about the end time pentecostal tongue. I think it will happen again on a grander scale. And yes, no one would have to learn a different language as it is the Holy Spirit speaking through them., but a myriad of different people with a myriad of different native languages hearing the apostles speaking in their own individual native languages. It was a miracle of universal comprehension.
In such a case, an interpreter would not be needed.
But the Corinthians were experiencing some kind of phenomenon, and Paul did not tell them to stop. In fact, he said he did it more than anyone else. But he instructed them to control it.That was my point about the end time pentecostal tongue. I think it will happen again on a grander scale. And yes, no one would have to learn a different language as it is the Holy Spirit speaking through them.
But the so called speaking in tongues today that is unknown to anybody, especially in churches -I don't find it biblical. Prayer/speaking within ourselves and within the church should be understood. That was Paul's point.
It wasn't the universal comprehension of Pentecost...it was something requiring interpretation
I'll say right up front that if I agreed with all Roman Catholic teaching, I'd be Roman Catholic.That said, Pentecost wasn’t universal comprehension but rather people hearing the Holy Apostles speak in their own language. As such, it is reasonable that if tongues consist of the ability to miraculously speak a real language one does not personally know, but which some people do, that would indicate the need for interpreters in the same way in which interpreters are used by police, courts, hospitals and related services to communicate with people who speak a different language - the only difference here being the speaker of the language doesn’t know the language they speak, but someone else in the congregation might (all of St. Paul’s churchess we are aware of were in predominantly Greek speaking areas, but likely had some who could speak Latin, various Aramaic dialects, Coptic, Persian, and perhaps Ge’ez (the language of the Ethiopians still in vernacular use at that time), Classical Armenian and Iberian (which become known as Georgian) and other languages spoken in proximity to the Roman oikumene.
I'll say right up front that if I agreed with all Roman Catholic teaching, I'd be Roman Catholic.
You are not arguing that there weren't two different glossolalia phenomena occurring among the apostles.As would I, but neither of us are in the position of agreeing with all Roman Catholic teaching. For example, I am not convinced this charism, or any gift given by God, need appear in one form only but would rather be contoured to the needs of the Church.
I should also add I am not speaking about what happened on Pentecost with St. Peter and the other Apostles, but rather what might have been the case with St. Paul.
My own experience with an Orthodox monk was being able to understand him in the absence of a shared language, and this idea has been regarded by many Orthodox as the raison d’etre of speaking in tongues.
My position, based on the recorded history of Orthodox monasticism and the wonderworking saints we have records of going back to the first century, is one of hard non-cessationism; whereas many Presbyterians and others believe that speaking in tongues and other spiritual charisms positively ceased after the end of the “Apostolic Age”, I believe that these gifts have continued in the service of the church, and that the forms in which we still experience them are definitive. Like the great Orthodox monk Fr. Seraphim Rose, who will likely be glorified (canonized) at some point in the near future, I have definite concerns about some practices associated with the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement, although one particular concern of mine which Fr. Seraphim did not address in Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future (a title best understood in the sense of Orthodoxy vs. novel forms of Christianity and new religious movements) is the issue of discontinuity: specifically, the glossolalia which began being reported at the Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles and which is now a defining feature of many Pentecostal and Charismatic churches lacks historical continuity with the experience of this charism and other charisms such as prophetic abilities which we have seen among the Orthodox wonder-working saints since the beginning.
You are not arguing that there weren't two different glossolalia phenomena occurring among the apostles.
I'm just not seeing that in scripture. Tongues means languages. And I believe Paul spoke more than one language. And he himself stated we need to have understanding within our own prayers and in the church. So he certainly couldn't have been promoting someone speaking an unknown language to no one. He more or less stated that was pointless.But the Corinthians were experiencing some kind of phenomenon, and Paul did not tell them to stop. In fact, he said he did it more than anyone else. But he instructed them to control it.
On Pentecost it was a known language but Paul wrote about the importance or having an interpreter present when someone was speaking in tongues which suggests that it might not have always been in a known language. Just for the record I’ve never spoken in tongues nor have I ever interpreted it, just making an observation.Exactly. It was known languages. I never understood how it became what it is today.
Not only that but some extremists even go so far as to say that until someone actually speaks in tongues they haven’t received the Holy Spirit. They often use phrases like let go and let the words flow from your mouth which is just encouraging someone to speak jibberish. I’m not saying that speaking in tongues is fake, I’m just saying that I don’t think it’s a gift that we choose, I think it’s a gift that God chooses to bestow on someone.Easy to understand, its because people wanted to fake them, because somebody taught them that tongues meant that the Holy Spirit has fallen on them, and they are now empowered in a way that they were not before.
He also told them not to speak in tongues unless there was someone there to interpret. So it’s really not clear whether the interpreter was interpreting a known language or an unknown language. It could be either one.I'm just not seeing that in scripture. Tongues means languages. And I believe Paul spoke more than one language. And he himself stated we need to have understanding within our own prayers and in the church. So he certainly couldn't have been promoting someone speaking an unknown language to no one. He more or less stated that was pointless.
But I know people believe in this but I'm not seeing it biblically. I know the Pentecostal tongue went out in all languages. But I feel as if Paul is talking about people and different languages period and how they effect the church.
Well, that's the thing. If an interpreter is interpreting period it would be a known language to them. It wouldn't be unknown to them personally.the interpreter was interpreting a known language or an unknown language. It could be either one.
being biblical.They often use phrases like let go and let the words flow from your mouth which is just encouraging someone to speak jibberish.
I see that pentecostal tongue differently when it comes to the end times and people giving their testimony. It will certainly be the Holy Spirit speaking though them in a language everyone would understand or else it would not be used for a witness unto all nations.
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