Can anyone explain...

Goodbook · Dec 8, 2015

Seems a bit...different. I wonder why they have that rule?
I think maybe thats going a bit far. Whats different about southern men and women?

FaithfulPilgrim · Dec 8, 2015

Goodbook said:
Can someone tell me what the role of a deacon is..isnt it the same as a church elder? I thought there were female deaconesses in the bible.

At all the Baptist churches I have been to (Southern and Free Will), they were always lead by a single pastor.

In these churches, the deacons are elected by the members of the congregation and assist the pastor. Their job is to make sure everything is going properly in the church.

Goodbook · Dec 8, 2015

As far as I know in my church both men and women can be deacons/elders/pastoral assistants.

We have a pastor and then a youth pastor, both male. The youth pastor can preach as well when our pastor is away. Sometimes we've had elders preaching, but not very often.

Its tempting to think the pastor is leading the church but actually our church is led by Jesus. He's just the one mostly being the mouthpiece on Sundays.

MrJim · Dec 8, 2015

Goodbook said:
Can someone tell me what the role of a deacon is..isnt it the same as a church elder? I thought there were female deaconesses in the bible.

At the SBC a deacon is in a role I would consider as an "elder" elsewhere...though I think technically the "elder" is the pastor and deacons are deacons...they are elected...and not all deacons are old-timers at all...at the last "election" a deacon was voted in and he's probably 31 or so. But definitely no women in the deacon or pastor role....SBC rule as I understand it per "Baptist Faith & Message"...and I would agree with that teaching 100%.

Goodbook · Dec 8, 2015

Whats "Baptist faith & Message" I mean what do you mean by that.

I remember going to a presy church and they had females as elders and even one that was my age. I thought that was a bit odd, not that she was female but that she was young.

MrJim · Dec 8, 2015

Goodbook said:
Whats "Baptist faith & Message" I mean what do you mean by that.

I remember going to a presy church and they had females as elders and even one that was my age. I thought that was a bit odd, not that she was female but that she was young.

http://www.sbc.net/bfm2000/bfm2000.asp

Goodbook · Dec 8, 2015

thanks what about the ABC churches do they have a statement of faith like the SBC website?
Just to compare.

now faith · Dec 8, 2015

mikedsjr said:
My stance: It was void after the last apostle died.

Name one person since then able to walk streets, touch people with even their shadow and they are healed? If this had occurred today it would be all over the news because people all around would be flocking to this person.

Study a bit on Smith Wigglesworth,I don't know about his shadow but his ministry was amazing.

If the gifts were gone when the Apostles died ,did the Jews at Pentacost or the Gentiles when the Holy Ghost was poured out on them lose the Spiritual Gifts?

It would be helpful if what was given had a expiration date in God's Word.

But I don't want to take this off topic,I personally have no condemnation if a Brother or Sister has there own beliefs to me Christ is first and doctrine shouldn't divide us as much as it does.
There's a hard road ahead with a eternal promise at journeys end.

Goodbook · Dec 8, 2015

I dont think he was baptist or grew up in the baptist church. I wasnt asking about him.
Personally I know the gifts havent died out but some churches do not have members that operate in the gifts or even open to them, so no wonder they dont have them.

Goodbook · Dec 9, 2015

Also, in some other churches the gifts had been abused or misused, so some people choose to go to baptist churches that arent associated with that kind of thing.

Eg. I know one bible baptist who didnt want me to talk to his daughters about speaking in tongues. They used to go to an pentecostal church, or the family was..and it was chaotic.
The good thing about baptist churches is things mostly are done decently and in order.

mikedsjr · Dec 9, 2015

now faith said:
Study a bit on Smith Wigglesworth,I don't know about his shadow but his ministry was amazing.

If the gifts were gone when the Apostles died ,did the Jews at Pentacost or the Gentiles when the Holy Ghost was poured out on them lose the Spiritual Gifts?

It would be helpful if what was given had a expiration date in God's Word.

But I don't want to take this off topic,I personally have no condemnation if a Brother or Sister has there own beliefs to me Christ is first and doctrine shouldn't divide us as much as it does.
There's a hard road ahead with a eternal promise at journeys end.

Smith wiggleworth, like all the others today, did his healing in controlled environments. There is nothing in Scripture demonstrating they only healed in the temple. They were always out within the world they lived in. People flocked to them in the streets. There is no known case of this since the last Apostle died.

MWood · Dec 9, 2015

The Apostle Paul talks about the gifts ending. I can't remember which letter, but it is there.

Goodbook · Dec 9, 2015

I think he meant they all come to an end..but love or charity never ends.

Eg prophecies, can fail when we cant see them come to pass.
Tongues will cease because we cant talk all the time.
Knowledge will vanish because even all the libraries and internet cant hold on to it all forever.

MWood · Dec 9, 2015

Goodbook said:
I think he meant they all come to an end..but love or charity never ends.

Eg prophecies, can fail when we cant see them come to pass.
Tongues will cease because we cant talk all the time.
Knowledge will vanish because even all the libraries and internet cant hold on to it all forever.

I'll look for the scriptures, I'll get back to you.

now faith · Dec 10, 2015

mikedsjr said:
Smith wiggleworth, like all the others today, did his healing in controlled environments. There is nothing in Scripture demonstrating they only healed in the temple. They were always out within the world they lived in. People flocked to them in the streets. There is no known case of this since the last Apostle died.

So Wigglesworth was a fake?
He never ministered in the homes or streets?

What about the book of James?

James: 5. 13. Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15. And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Would it be possible to pray in faith today?

Vs 15 is unconditional, no if it be thine will.
But my Brother in Christ one day we will meet Christ face to face and all will be made known.

God Bless

Goodbook · Dec 10, 2015

Im not saying wigglesworth was a fake I never met him.
Im just saying i dont think he was a baptist..unless im wrong about that. This is a baptist forum.

I mean this part of the christian forum. So people who belong to baptist churches, including myself, post here. We cant really relate if you talking about someone who was, say pentecostal. If you mentioned someone who identified as baptist and also demonstrated spiritual gifts that would be more edifying.

I think there must be as there are some people in my church who minister especially to the sick, but I dont know they were as gifted or anointed as wigglesworth was, who seemed to have Gods favour. However as he is no longer with us today...cant really say.

We have a man in nz who used to belong to the anglican church but is now a healing evangelist for everyone and thats Bill subritzky. He has come and ministered in my baptist church and prayed for me and I was healed.

MrJim · Dec 10, 2015

Goodbook said:
thanks what about the ABC churches do they have a statement of faith like the SBC website?
Just to compare.

http://www.abc-usa.org/what_we_believe/

mikedsjr · Dec 10, 2015

Goodbook said:
Im not saying wigglesworth was a fake I never met him.
Im just saying i dont think he was a baptist..unless im wrong about that. This is a baptist forum.

I mean this part of the christian forum. So people who belong to baptist churches, including myself, post here. We cant really relate if you talking about someone who was, say pentecostal. If you mentioned someone who identified as baptist and also demonstrated spiritual gifts that would be more edifying.

I think there must be as there are some people in my church who minister especially to the sick, but I dont know they were as gifted or anointed as wigglesworth was, who seemed to have Gods favour. However as he is no longer with us today...cant really say.

We have a man in nz who used to belong to the anglican church but is now a healing evangelist for everyone and thats Bill subritzky. He has come and ministered in my baptist church and prayed for me and I was healed.

Out of curiosity, are you stating instantly healed after his prayer?

mikedsjr · Dec 10, 2015

now faith said:
So Wigglesworth was a fake?
He never ministered in the homes or streets?

What about the book of James?

James: 5. 13. Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15. And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Would it be possible to pray in faith today?

Vs 15 is unconditional, no if it be thine will.
But my Brother in Christ one day we will meet Christ face to face and all will be made known.

God Bless

From the history I read up on Smith, I don't know I he did. I'm not making a claim that God will not hear the prayers of the elders of church to heal someone. I have a pastor/friend who does hospital and house visits of the sick and elderly. I have no doubt he prays for them.

I'm not going to claim my faith is so great and mighty. I recognize the analytical/pessimistic brain I have. Someone wants to claim some preacher like Smith or Benny Hinn heal people, then what they are truly claiming is an instance healing power that was demonstrated by Jesus and the Apostles in Acts. I want hard evidence Benny Hinn or Smith are who they say they are. If they are, people should have flocked to them in streets. Why would they flock to them? Because hard evidence forced them to believe it happened and they wanted some of that healing as well. What you find from all of these modern faith healers is scams. They wanna sale you something.

Yes, I flat out question the integrity of these individuals. They don't need to provide proof. Proof should be found that they loved people so much their healing people while walking the streets, going to the store or even walking to a hospital room of one of their parishioners.

But no. It never happens in these places. It happens in controlled environments where offerings are taken up.

It's a money scam. Preying on the sick.

I read Smith would never pray twice for a person because that meant they doubted. Scripturally, healing had nothing to do with the person's faith in being healed. At least most cases.

Goodbook · Dec 10, 2015

hmm looks quite different..less scripture used.
SBC totally bombards you with it on their statement of faith.

I notice ABC talking about ordination of women. But I was thinking..how God gives prophets, evangelists, teachers, pastors, apostles..for building up of the church. Maybe its not that women can't hold these posts its just men had been doing the hard work and women have been doing just as much but in a different way.

Like for example. When you build a house, if you notice, its mostly 99% of the time, a man that is building it and doing the labour. But its mostly the women who influence the men and also decorate the house and furnish it and make it functioning.

I also notice that wisdom builds her house in Proverbs...this is a woman. But..I have never actually built a house. I mean sorry but I was never taught how and even in school they don't teach you that. So..maybe I just need to study scripture a bit more on this building thing. But I can tell you if I designed the house I am living in...I would make some changes because I'm the one who has to live in it...

even for example going to university, they give you a Bachelor's degree, and a Masters, but they never give any woman a Spinster's degree or a Mistress'. I mean that would just be wrong, wouldn't it? (even though that's grammatically correct, feminists would howl). But actually I wouldn't mind because then it would avoid all this post-feminist gender confusion.

Or maybe men aren't men any more because the last time these men or hired men built homes in nz we found out they were using shoddy building materials and now there's all this drama and litigation over leaky homes built in the 90s. So maybe women have to learn building now. I mean I had to file Standards at the Engineering Library and I tell you hardly anyone looked at them. They made it really hard to access, and...kept changing them all the time. Gods word says that people who change weights and measures all the time are an abomination.

sorry.don't mind me.

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