Can a person be both an atheist and a Christian?

Worldslaziestbusker · Dec 6, 2011

Perhaps I am reading between the lines too hard, but some responses I have received to the question in the original post, both here and in real life, suggest that some Christians are comfortable with someone preaching Christianity regardless of their sincerity because the message is more important than the salvation or the integrity of the messenger.
To give you some idea of how the situation looks to an outsider, perhaps you could consider an analogous situation wherein someone who gives no credence to the writings of L. Ron Hubbard and who does not believe in thetans performs E-meter readings and conducts Clearings on the behalf of the Church of Scientology. Is that person a Scientologist? Are they acting ethically?

Izdaari Eristikon · Dec 6, 2011

Worldslaziestbusker said:
Perhaps I am reading between the lines too hard, but some responses I have received to the question in the original post, both here and in real life, suggest that some Christians are comfortable with someone preaching Christianity regardless of their sincerity because the message is more important than the salvation or the integrity of the messenger.
To give you some idea of how the situation looks to an outsider, perhaps you could consider an analogous situation wherein someone who gives no credence to the writings of L. Ron Hubbard and who does not believe in thetans performs E-meter readings and conducts Clearings on the behalf of the Church of Scientology. Is that person a Scientologist? Are they acting ethically?

IMHO a person who doesn't believe the basic ideas of Christian orthodoxy (by which I mean essentially the contents of the Apostles Creed, whether or not their denomination uses creeds) shouldn't act as any sort of Christian minister, evangelist, teacher or counselor. But I'm very happy to have them show up in church. Sometimes people become part of the community first, and then become believers.

Worldslaziestbusker · Dec 6, 2011

Izdaari said:
. But I'm very happy to have them show up in church. Sometimes people become part of the community first, and then become believers.

Thanks for your response. I can see that a person who might come to believe would be welcome in a congregation, but as the person in question seems to have lost their faith while at the seminary, the likelihood of a re-conversion seems low. I know some Christians have a never say die approach to encouraging people to take up the alleged gifts on offer, but I think the switch back to belief would require either some convincing evidence or a dramatic personality alteration to get the particular cynic of whom I write to shift from their current position.

elahmine · Dec 6, 2011

Worldslaziestbusker said:
Thanks for your response. I can see that a person who might come to believe would be welcome in a congregation, but as the person in question seems to have lost their faith while at the seminary, the likelihood of a re-conversion seems low. I know some Christians have a never say die approach to encouraging people to take up the alleged gifts on offer, but I think the switch back to belief would require either some convincing evidence or a dramatic personality alteration to get the particular cynic of whom I write to shift from their current position.

I have heard stories from people who went through seminary, and then they thought to themselves something along the lines of, " What am I doing." and "How do I know this isn't all a lie." It seems to be usually a result of the pressure of being ordained. The seminarians end up getting closer to God and going back to Christ. However, this may not be the situation of the person you have mentioned. If this is not the case, they shouldn't be ministering to anyone. You can of course love and be apart of the Christian community, but it is grossly inappropriate to preach administer/take part of the sacrament of Holy Communion if you do not believe in the tenets of the Christian faith. To be a Christian it is required to believe in the things talked about in the Nicene Creed.

linssue55 · Dec 6, 2011

Worldslaziestbusker said:
Hello everyone
I have a question about definitions. An acquaintance of mine does not believe in God, does not accept the divinity of Jesus Christ, and does not think of the crucifixion as his path to salvation. In short, he is an atheist, like me. We are different, however, in that he attends church and refers to himself as Christian, his argument for this being that he has respect for the cultural traditions, and enjoys the sense of community derived from being part of a congregation.
Is it possible to be an atheist Christian? Can you be Christian without Christ?
Regards
WLB

NO!

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the
kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my
Father who is in heaven.

Many will say to me on that day (last judgement), Lord, Lord, did we not
prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out
demons and perform many miracles?

Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you (unbelievers).
Away from me, you evildoers!

Rao · Dec 14, 2011

Worldslaziestbusker said:
An acquaintance of mine does not believe in God, does not accept the divinity of Jesus Christ, and does not think of the crucifixion as his path to salvation. In short, he is an atheist, like me. We are different, however, in that he attends church and refers to himself as Christian, his argument for this being that he has respect for the cultural traditions, and enjoys the sense of community derived from being part of a congregation.
Is it possible to be an atheist Christian? Can you be Christian without Christ?

I think the point lies in what does it mean to be with/without Christ. Someone may not formally believe in the story of Jesus' life and death, one reason could be that he was born and lived in a culture or family where other religions (or atheism) are predominant and everyone is strongly educated to believe that everybody else's religion is completely fabricated, but such person may however at heart completely agree with Jesus' teachings and be de-facto behaving according to them. What if he is confused on how to see himself but substantially already there?

However in your first post you mention that his conscious explanation is not about behaviour and values, but only about traditions and membership. Honestly, I don't think that these alone can make someone a Christian. Could be a sign of willingness to get close tho...

Worldslaziestbusker said:
If your definition of agnostic Christian is the same as mine, then I know many. The definition as I understand it is people who believe in God, but who are less than one hundred percent certain on the matter.

Meh... there are very, and I mean very, few people who are one-hundred percent sure. Nearly everyone who swears to be sure is lying to himself, just afraid of being wrong and trying to compensate for it. You'll know this by seeing how angry they get when their faith is questioned or their beliefs argued against.

Norah63 · Dec 14, 2011

isn't that an oxymoron, to say agnostic Christian?

Worldslaziestbusker · Dec 14, 2011

Norah63 said:
isn't that an oxymoron, to say agnostic Christian?

Agnostic describes a position regarding knowledge, not belief, so it's not an oxymoron to put the two things together.
I think Christian atheist is an oxymoron, as one label describes a belief excluded by the lack of belief described in the other, making the phrase nonsensical.

elahmine · Dec 14, 2011

Worldslaziestbusker said:
Agnostic describes a position regarding knowledge, not belief, so it's not an oxymoron to put the two things together.
I think Christian atheist is an oxymoron, as one label describes a belief excluded by the lack of belief described in the other, making the phrase nonsensical.

I'm afraid not knowing whether you believe in God or not is opposite to Christianity.

Worldslaziestbusker · Dec 14, 2011

elahmine said:
I'm afraid not knowing whether you believe in God or not is opposite to Christianity.

It's not a matter of knowing which way your belief lies, but your certainty about your belief. I don't believe in God, but I am not certain that God does not exist. I am an agnostic atheist.
A gnostic atheist would claim certainty on the matter, but that would require faith (belief in the absence of evidence) to go from not(belief God) to belief(not God). These are two very different positions. I am not prepared to take the gnostic athiest position because it is inconsistent with my own requirements regarding evidence.

An agnostic Christian is not taking a position in opposition to Christianity, only refraining from claiming absolute certainty about the existence of God.

elahmine · Dec 15, 2011

Worldslaziestbusker said:
An agnostic Christian is not taking a position in opposition to Christianity, only refraining from claiming absolute certainty about the existence of God.

That is my point. If there is no certainty of God, there is no Christianity. Christianity has very specific theistic beliefs that are to be accepted if one is to consider themselves Christian. You are supposed to believe with certainty that the Christian God is the one and only God, and that he is the true God. Also, that He exists.

Norah63 · Dec 16, 2011

That is the bridge of faith one must cross.
You must believe that God is and that He is a re warder of
those who diligently seek Him.
With out that all you have is doubt and unbelief.
And that is all the enemy has to offer is, "hath God said?"

JCFantasy23 · Jan 2, 2012

Worldslaziestbusker said:
Hello everyone
I have a question about definitions. An acquaintance of mine does not believe in God, does not accept the divinity of Jesus Christ, and does not think of the crucifixion as his path to salvation. In short, he is an atheist, like me. We are different, however, in that he attends church and refers to himself as Christian, his argument for this being that he has respect for the cultural traditions, and enjoys the sense of community derived from being part of a congregation.
Is it possible to be an atheist Christian? Can you be Christian without Christ?
Regards
WLB

No, you are either a Christian or you are not. If you don't believe in it, you can't be it. Going to church is a different kind of thing altogether.

lismore · Jan 4, 2012

Worldslaziestbusker said:
Is it possible to be an atheist Christian? Can you be Christian without Christ?
Regards
WLB

Is it possible to hot and cold? Wet and dry? Up and down? Dead and alive?

elahmine · Jan 6, 2012

lismore said:
Dead and alive?

If you are a zombie, yes. Sorry had to say it.

Worldslaziestbusker · Jan 8, 2012

Thank you for the many responses. Besides a statement that they would be welcome on the chance of their faith reviving, it seems unanimous that someone who does not accept the divinity of Jesus or the salvation on offer through his sacrifice cannot be considered a Christian, even in the most liberal climes of Christianity.
Do many churches have mechanisms for informing people that they aren't part of the faith, or that their efforts representing the faith are harmful and that you would like them to either stop their actions or to stop referring to themselves as Christian?

elahmine · Jan 9, 2012

Worldslaziestbusker said:
Thank you for the many responses. Besides a statement that they would be welcome on the chance of their faith reviving, it seems unanimous that someone who does not accept the divinity of Jesus or the salvation on offer through his sacrifice cannot be considered a Christian, even in the most liberal climes of Christianity.
Do many churches have mechanisms for informing people that they aren't part of the faith, or that their efforts representing the faith are harmful and that you would like them to either stop their actions or to stop referring to themselves as Christian?

I would say most seminaries and ordination processes try to make sure they only accept Christians. However, it really isn't the practice to try and find non-Christians and tell them that they are harmful or that they can't call themselves Christians. It is made obvious through either preaching or the catechisms of most churches, what it is to be a Christian.

hedrick · Jan 9, 2012

Worldslaziestbusker said:
Thank you for the many responses. Besides a statement that they would be welcome on the chance of their faith reviving, it seems unanimous that someone who does not accept the divinity of Jesus or the salvation on offer through his sacrifice cannot be considered a Christian, even in the most liberal climes of Christianity.
Do many churches have mechanisms for informing people that they aren't part of the faith, or that their efforts representing the faith are harmful and that you would like them to either stop their actions or to stop referring to themselves as Christian?

Every church I've ever known has some form of orientation for prospective members, and asks then if they accept Christ as Lord and Savior.

There are enough variations in the way people see Christ that we might well have members who don't agree with someone else's idea of the divinity of Christ. Similarly with the atonement. THere are people whose idea of what Jesus' death meant don't agree with other people's.

Theofane · Jan 20, 2012

Worldslaziestbusker said:
Hello everyone
I have a question about definitions. An acquaintance of mine does not believe in God, does not accept the divinity of Jesus Christ, and does not think of the crucifixion as his path to salvation. In short, he is an atheist, like me. We are different, however, in that he attends church and refers to himself as Christian, his argument for this being that he has respect for the cultural traditions, and enjoys the sense of community derived from being part of a congregation.
Is it possible to be an atheist Christian? Can you be Christian without Christ?
Regards
WLB

Is it possible that your friend isn't being entirely honest with you or himself? What you've described sounds contradictory and hypocritical. If this person doesn't attend church services because he's interested in worshipping God, he should find a sense of community somewhere else IMO.

Q: Is it possible to be an atheist Christian?
A: It's possible to pretend, but not for very long.

Q: Can you be Christian without Christ
A: No!

IMO, too many Christians are actually covert atheists. There are already too many pretenders! Atheists are spies for the Enemy if they are not part of the Body of Christ.

Jupiter Drops · Feb 18, 2012

No.

In fact, your acquaintance is not Christian. There's no such thing as an Atheist Christian or other 'categories' people like to label themselves in. He does not accept God, does not believe in Jesus Christ, and doesn't know the Holy Spirit. That already states that he rejected Jesus and His Path, so no.

You have to be one or the other. You can't just 'respect' the 'traditions.' We Christians are not about traditions. We're about salvation. It's all about following Jesus Christ. We support each other and are one through Jesus.

Some people like to think that they can be the ones who can make things their own and be 'okay' by it by being both or slapping shallow labels to their souls. However, they're fooling themselves through their sheer ignorance and arrogance.

That's not how we Christians are. We are passionate for Jesus, the One and Only.

Your acquaintance is already putting himself in danger. Pray for him that he may turn away from his lukewarm ways and accept Jesus.

Can a person be both an atheist and a Christian?

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