Can a computer ever have a conscious?

[stan1980]

Like a human? I mean, say you could programme a computer or robot to replicate a human brain, would it ever truly have internal thoughts like we do and believe it was real and feel or experience emotions like pain, love, fear, happiness etc or would it just be churning through a bunch of binary code and simply be giving the impression it was the same as us?

In other words, would it feel as real as I feel real?

Personally, I can't see how it would, it would just be an inanimate object doing lots of complex sums. Thoughts?

 

[The Nihilist]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

 

[quatona]

Like a human? I mean, say you could programme a computer or robot to replicate a human brain, would it ever truly have internal thoughts like we do and believe it was real and feel or experience emotions like pain, love, fear, happiness etc or would it just be churning through a bunch of binary code and simply be giving the impression it was the same as us?

In other words, would it feel as real as I feel real?

Personally, I can't see how it would, it would just be an inanimate object doing lots of complex sums. Thoughts?

For starters, the problem would be how to determine whether something that says it feels real really feels real. I´m not even sure you feel as real as I feel real (or vice versa).

The proposed Turing test doesn´t seem to help with this.

Actually, I wouldn´t even know how to reasonable discern between "real" emotions and merely perceived emotions, not even with myself. This distinction doesn´t make sense to me.

 

[Caylin]

I believe that yes, someday they might be able too. After all, the human brain has principles that it works upon that theoretically should be possible to reproduce. I don't think it would be possible using binary computers like we use now.

The *real* problem here is, should we build them if they can become sentient? Owning another thinking being is slavery. What good would having one do us? If we force it to work for us with no way to leave it's job, and no pay, I feel that is slavery.

 

[quatona]

The *real* problem here is, should we build them if they can become sentient? Owning another thinking being is slavery. What good would having one do us? If we force it to work for us with no way to leave it's job, and no pay, I feel that is slavery.

Before considering the ethical problems I personally would ask:
Why the heck would I want a computer to have emotions and feelings? I want a computer to do what I want it to do. I don´t want a computer that is subject to mood changes, a computer that answers "Nah, come on, I don´t feel like doing this today" when I press "enter".

 

[Caylin]

Well, the common suggestion is use them for dangerous or tedious tasks, that require intelligence and discretionary decision making. Piloting interstellar slow ships would be one example. Repairing the inside of a nuclear reactor might be another.

 

[quatona]

Well, the common suggestion is use them for dangerous or tedious tasks, that require intelligence and discretionary decision making. Piloting interstellar slow ships would be one example. Repairing the inside of a nuclear reactor might be another.

I personally don´t think that feelings and emotions (or self-awareness, for that matter) are particularly useful for making intelligent and discretionary decisions in these contexts. But that´s just me.

 

[Caylin]

Well do feelings and emotions automatically mean sentience?

 

[quatona]

Well do feelings and emotions automatically mean sentience?

I´d think they would. This, at least, was the premise in the OP - if I have understood it correctly.

 

[Caylin]

I thought he just mean self awareness. Anyways, those are the examples people like to give. I still think the if it is self aware then we prolly shouldn't build it just to be a slave. I'm tired though so I'm prolly not making much sense.

 

[GQ Chris]

Of course Computers can rise up. Ever hear of Cyberdyne Systems?

 

[Caylin]

So... terminator 4? Anyone holding out and hops on it being any good? I mean its gonna have Christian Bale...

 

[GQ Chris]

Dangit I wanted to play John Connor.

 

[The Nihilist]

So... terminator 4? Anyone holding out and hops on it being any good? I mean its gonna have Christian Bale...

if there is a god that loves us, the movie will be about batman taking down the terminators

 

[mpok1519]

animals are self-aware; technicians are very close to perfecting 'AI'.

But, some argue consciousness is simply a state of perception, the ability to sense and feel, well, anything I suppose.

 

[Caoimhe]

Hmm, I wonder what really defines as "conscious" or "consciousness"... maybe some of you could elucidate it for me.

As to Stan1980's question... when we compare human brains with computers I think it's safe to say that there is at least one distinction between them. Human brains need not a mechanical "switch" or button to propel any causal reactions. Consciousness, a vague term I risk using, is there when we are awake but also while we're asleep. Psychology offers the view that during REM sleep we humans dream ergo we maintain a "conscious" state at all time. Computers do not do this as they are incapable. As opposed to human brains, the computer relies on someone else to flick that "on" switch. And during times when it is "off" it does not think or function as humans do.

I guess if one takes the biological perspective, all emotions could really be the results of chemical interaction and discharge, namely neurotransmitters, passing through intricate axons, dendrites and whatnot. But for computer to experience the same level of perceptions and emotions as humans do, one would have to create a synthetic brain that functions exactly as or closely as it can get to a human brain. Now I'm no biochemist but I conjecture that the brain has a specific code for deciphering "happiness" whenever say, endorphin is released. If a computer were to experience this same kind of "happiness" as a human brain does, it would require all the necessary biochemical interaction within it. But it must not be instigated by a controller with a remote, per se. Emotive response must occur freely just as a random incident in the world causes a specific emotion to be experienced by a human brain.

IF and only IF science and technology can succeed in creating a synthetic brain that is as viable and complex as the real human brain, then sure, I guess computers can think and feel as we do. But at this point in time this seems like an impossible task.

This discussion is very intriguing and I have a few questions of my own.

First, how do you inject consciousness into something that doesn't possess it?

Second, how do you remove consciousness from those who have it without harming or killing them?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Personally, I can't see how it would, it would just be an inanimate object doing lots of complex sums. Thoughts?

Considering that the brain is just a network of firing neurons, and it is conscious, perhaps an inanimate object doing lots of binary operations could be constructed in a way as to develop an emergent property of having a conscious mind.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

technicians are very close to perfecting 'AI'.

I'm a computer programmer. I think that AI is far from being "perfected".


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[keith99]

I'm a computer programmer. I think that AI is far from being "perfected".


eudaimonia,

Mark

Agree totally. In computer terms what some claim is on the horizon is Alpha testing. I don't think even that is going to happen any time soon. Though it will not surprise if ver soon there are programs that can do a very very good imitation in specific areas. But those may show interesting failures when somehting unexpected is encountered.

 

[ttreg]

How are we to creat AI when we dont even completely understand the human brain?