Interesting. My article looks at specific Scriptures while yours goes to a bunch of writings by Calvinists filled with tons of misrepresentations and the typical Calvinist revisionist history. Must be that tradition bug biting again. ;-) Looks a lot like Debate Tips #s 9-12 to me.
Interesting. My article looks at specific Scriptures while yours goes to a bunch of writings by Calvinists filled with tons of misrepresentations and the typical Calvinist revisionist history. Must be that tradition bug biting again. ;-) Looks a lot like Debate Tips #s 9-12 to me.
THE BIBLE TEACHES US THAT WE ARE SAVED BY THE SPIRIT:
We are not made sons and daughters of God by our choice, our ability to discern the spiritual goodness of God or believe the Gospel. This ability to receive the Gospel is “lead by the Spirit.”
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Ro 8:14)
The Gospel is “revealed” “unto us by the Spirit.”
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. (1 Cor 2:10-13)
“no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Cor 12:3)
The Spirit “giveth life.”
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. (2 Cor 3:6)
The Spirit releases us from bondage and gives us freedom.
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Cor 3:17-18)
THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT THE SPIRIT GIVES US REGENERATION:
The Lord performs the act of giving a new heart and it’s not contingent on the free will of man.
And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. (Deut 30:6)
How did you get to where you are today, sitting in church on Sunday’s, reading your Bible, struggling to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength?
God.
God brought you to where you are today. He gave you a knew heart. It was God that brought you to a place where you can believe on His dear son Jesus Christ.
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: (Eze 11:19)
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Eze 36)
I’ll include a handy graphic that explains the order of salvation as presented in scripture.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1)
You cannot control the operations of the Holy Spirit, not by your will or choice. God will do as He pleases and brings salvation to those He chooses.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:3-8)
The Spirit brings us to faith by raising the spiritually dead, giving them life…([bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]t, that’s what Calvin believed)
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. (Joh 5)
The Holy Spirit moves us from a state of spiritual death and decay to life.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (2 Cor 5;17-18)
It doesn’t matter what you do you cannot impress God. You can perform works, you may be a nice person, you could even claim to have faith but without the new birth performed by the Holy Spirit it means nothing. The Holy Spirit must move a “dead” sinner to life and belief.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. (Gal 6:15)
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) (Eph 2:5)
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:10)
The Bible teaches that due to sin fallen man cannot believe in the Gospel.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (Col 2:13)
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (Tit 3:15)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Pet 1:3)
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Pet 1:23)
In our fallen state the Holy Spirit regenerates our soul. This is a gracious act of God. Amen.
Amazing Post! Love the picture, I am a visual learner...
I am pretty sure I have posted quite a bit more than links. And what is the difference between posting a link and copying and pasting entire posts or articles or charts in the thread? It is certainly a discussion, but we are also debating several issues here. Posting links at times doesn't change that. You must have a very narrow understanding of what "debate" means. But your response here is just a red herring anyway as it does not address what I said at all. Maybe that is why you don't think this is a debate?What I find interesting is that you believe this is a debate. This is a discussion. Nothing formal. At least not from the Arminian side…unless you count posting links debating or adding something of substance. Lol
Man, talk about wild prooftexting. And more blatant misrepresentations of Armianinism woven in between the prooftexts. Disappointing. I would encourage anyone to check out my blog where I address just about every prooftext that is brought up here and show how they do not support the Calvinist view when read in context and when the actual language is carefully considered. God bless.THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT THE GOSPEL IS NOT GIVEN TO ALL:
We fail to recognize the sinfulness of sin if we believe the Gospel is discerned in the flesh and therefore something we can believe in on our own. The Bible teaches us that sin kills, we are dead in sin, can do nothing to be saved and that the Gospel is hidden from us until revealed to us by God.
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (Matt 11:25-27)
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. (Matt 13:10-11, 16)
The Arminian free will tradition gives too much credit to man in the flesh. “for flesh and blood hath not revealed it…”
The truth of the Gospel is revealed to us.
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (Matt16)
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. (Luke 8:10)
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. (Luke 10:21)
The Holy Spirit draws sinners to Christ for salvation.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6)
The biblical quotations above demonstrates how the Holy Spirit gives us hearing, learning and an explanation of the parables. Now we read how “every man” “that hath heard” will be “raised” up for salvation.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. (John 6)
The Bible teaches that only those given the ability by the Holy Spirit will come to faith in Christ.
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. (John 6)
God calls His people, not everyone to believe.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. (John 10:3-6)
Speaking to national Israel Christ tells them He has other sheep, Gentile sheep, that He will call. God’s calling under the new covenant of grace is not based along ethnic lines.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. (John 10)
You cannot believe unless you are one of Christ’s sheep.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (John 10)
The Gospel is spiritual. That is why you must be called to believe in Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit, that is the only way to discern the Gospel.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor 2)
Have you noticed that nobody has addressed John 5 yet? Unless I missed it. If so, please refer me to where it was addressed.Amazing Post! Love the picture, I am a visual learner...
For the many theological absurdities that result from the Calvinist ordo salutis, see here: https://arminianperspectives.wordpr...inist-ordo-salutis-a-brief-comparative-study/THE BIBLE TEACHES US THAT WE ARE SAVED BY THE SPIRIT:
We are not made sons and daughters of God by our choice, our ability to discern the spiritual goodness of God or believe the Gospel. This ability to receive the Gospel is “lead by the Spirit.”
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Ro 8:14)
The Gospel is “revealed” “unto us by the Spirit.”
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. (1 Cor 2:10-13)
“no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Cor 12:3)
The Spirit “giveth life.”
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. (2 Cor 3:6)
The Spirit releases us from bondage and gives us freedom.
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Cor 3:17-18)
THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT THE SPIRIT GIVES US REGENERATION:
The Lord performs the act of giving a new heart and it’s not contingent on the free will of man.
And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. (Deut 30:6)
How did you get to where you are today, sitting in church on Sunday’s, reading your Bible, struggling to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength?
God.
God brought you to where you are today. He gave you a knew heart. It was God that brought you to a place where you can believe on His dear son Jesus Christ.
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: (Eze 11:19)
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Eze 36)
I’ll include a handy graphic that explains the order of salvation as presented in scripture.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1)
You cannot control the operations of the Holy Spirit, not by your will or choice. God will do as He pleases and brings salvation to those He chooses.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:3-8)
The Spirit brings us to faith by raising the spiritually dead, giving them life…([bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]t, that’s what Calvin believed)
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. (Joh 5)
The Holy Spirit moves us from a state of spiritual death and decay to life.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (2 Cor 5;17-18)
It doesn’t matter what you do you cannot impress God. You can perform works, you may be a nice person, you could even claim to have faith but without the new birth performed by the Holy Spirit it means nothing. The Holy Spirit must move a “dead” sinner to life and belief.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. (Gal 6:15)
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) (Eph 2:5)
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:10)
The Bible teaches that due to sin fallen man cannot believe in the Gospel.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (Col 2:13)
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (Tit 3:15)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Pet 1:3)
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Pet 1:23)
In our fallen state the Holy Spirit regenerates our soul. This is a gracious act of God. Amen.
Don't cry bro. It'll be ok. If this was a debate you'd be in trouble. The op asks "why are you a Calvinist" not why tradition is so important we should try to explain away biblical doctrine. haha.I am pretty sure I have posted quite a bit more than links. And what is the difference between...
Man, talk about wild prooftexting.
Have you noticed that nobody has addressed John 5 yet? Unless I missed it. If so, please refer me to where it was addressed.
THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT SALVATION IS GIVEN BY OUR SOVEREIGN GOD:
Whatever God commands, wills and ordains will be accomplished. If God seeks to save that which was lost, have faith, He will save them.
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (Isa 55:11)
The Arminian free will tradition teaches that we are to “get saved” by conceding to the truth of the Gospel which leads to our spiritual regeneration. This is often called “decisional regeneration,” where the creatures faith acts as the key ingredient to kick start our salvation. Salvation is given through Jesus Christ alone, based on the love of God and His mercy toward us, and not gained through our actions. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. (Joh 3:27)
The modern Evangelical tradition supporting free will believes that Christ desperately wants to save all of humanity but is not able to do so because of libertarian free will. Christ was sent to “seek and save that which was lost” and will accomplish what He sets out to do for He has “power over all flesh” and will give freely to “as many as” God the Father “hast given him.”
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. (John 17:2)
Salvation is freely given and not based on the will of man.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. (Rom 9:16)
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. (1 Cor 3:6-7)
It is God who makes the difference.
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? (1 Cor 4)
Even our good works after spiritual regeneration find their beginning in God.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Phil 2:12-13)
We are born again, “begat“ by the word of truth, it is given to us and not gained by our actions.
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (Jam 1:18)
We have an understanding of spiritual things because it was “given” to us.
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (1 Joh 5:20)
PS: If I were to pick a freewill, works based religion it would be something with meat on it. Something like Romanism or Orthodox, smells and bells baby!
Arminian theologists thoughts about you by now: Acts of the Apostles 26:24Here's another image worth a gander. I believe it's by William Perkins.
Arminian theologists thoughts about you by now: Acts of the Apostles 26:24
Seriously though, JM, I am glad you are on my side!
I appreciate this, but it is unfortunate that it had to include another misrepresentation of Arminianism woven in to the comment: "Arminians point to man and his contribution to salvation and the Calvinist points to God alone."I'm just cranky and should apologize for my sarcasm. Arminians miss the point of the-(God)-ology and it gets me frustrated. We go round and round over the same issues. Arminians point to man and his contribution to salvation and the Calvinist points to God alone. I post a text. They post a text. It never stops.
I realize God is teaching me patience and one day I will have it!!
Until then I'll will glory in Christ alone,
Salvation was given not got.
for there is nothing I did on my own,
The price for my sin Christ bought.
He gave freely of His grace,
Now I stand forgiven in the Son.
My harden heart He replaced,
Through Christ alone I have won!
(Not the best verse in the world but it was off the top of my head.)
Yours in the Lord,
jm
Don't cry bro. It'll be ok. If this was a debate you'd be in trouble. The op asks "why are you a Calvinist" not why tradition is so important we should try to explain away biblical doctrine. haha.
I use scripture and you claim I'm proof texting...I post an article using history and I get charged with revisionism. Don't cry homie.
Now, if I post a verse without giving a context, or explanation as to what I think it teaches...is that intellectually acceptable?
Of course not.
I will get to John 5, maybe, but you are being very rude by changing the topic “why are you a Calvinist” to “why you should be an Arminian.”
It might surprise you but, and it may be difficult for an Arminian to understand, it’s not all about YOU.
That’s the whole point of Calvinism.
Now, I will come back to John 5 after I have sufficiently answered the question asked of Calvinists. You have shifted the emphasis from God to man. This was not about Arminianism but you did, in typical Arminian fashion, turn this into a thread about man.
Atta boi.
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