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Calvinist interpretation Luke 13:34

trident343

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“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."

What are the other interpretations of this verse other than James White's Jerusalem="Jerusalem's Leaders"

Also if you know an alternative view, could you let me know which writer/theologian came up with it. Thanks :)
 

kenrapoza

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Actually I think that James White's point is significant, but most people miss it. I've seen people completely miss the significance of Jesus gathering his people together and pronuning judgment on apostate rulers. A few months ago, I debated an Arminian and a parallel verse to this one was thrown out (Matt. 23:37). Below is my response to that particular verse citation, I hope that it helps clarify things because I believe that it is the majority Calvinist interpretation.

You've boldened the statement in point #4 that humans are capable of resisting God's will and cited Matt. 23:37 as an example. This is a common passage used by Arminians to try to refute Irresistible Grace, but it is not saying that at all. God's will and God's grace are two separate things. And there are different ways that the Bible speaks of God's will.

What is the context of Jesus' statement? The context in chapter 23 is Jesus' denunciation of the Jewish religious leaders who murdered the prophets (23:31) and are therefore the enemies of God. Jesus even lays at their feet the blood of Abel and Zechariah (23:35), which is a way of saying that these leaders are following in the footsteps of those who have opposed God and killed His messengers from the first to the last. He even says that they will continue to kill his followers after him (23:34). Verse 37 is the conclusion of Jesus' denunciation of the leaders. But notice what he doesn't say. Jesus doesn't say that he wanted to gather them but they were unwilling, he says that he wanted to gather Jerusalem's children. In other words, those whom he intends to gather are not those whom he was talking to. He is not even speaking of regenerating grace in this passage, he is speaking of earthly powers who oppose the kingdom of God, but in the end will only end up in destruction for it (23:33, 38). He doesn't say "I wanted to gather you to myself but you wouldn't let me!" In effect, he is saying "I have been longing for the day when I gather my children together, but you who have opposed me all along will not be a part of that, your end will be destruction!" And Jesus, the true and good Israel, was right there fulfilling his Messianic task, advancing the history of redemption towards that ultimate day prophesied when he will gather his children from the four corners of the earth and we will be with him. Truly then he will be our God and we will be his people.
 
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AndOne

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I think you will be hard pressed to find any other interpretation within Calvinist circles of the passage from Luke 13 or Matthew 23 that is different from that of James White. It really is a pretty cut and dry point that Jesus was making - any other intepretation would have to have an agenda attached to it as far as I'm concerned.
 
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heymikey80

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“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."

What are the other interpretations of this verse other than James White's Jerusalem="Jerusalem's Leaders"

Also if you know an alternative view, could you let me know which writer/theologian came up with it. Thanks :)
I really don't get it. What's the nature of the objection?

Is it Irresistible Grace? Then it reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the Calvinistic doctrine.
Is there an assertion that Jerusalem is entirely elect at this point in time? If so, why?

If not, nobody's said that irresistible grace can't be resisted by those on whom it's never delivered. That would just be silly.

Further afield, resistance / opposition isn't the point of irresistible grace. It's a grace that we don't have the facility to actually put up any force against God. Nobody can prevent God from creating.

Is it an assertion about free will? Then it reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the free agency aspect of free will -- on which even Calvinists agree.

Calvin himself pointed out that people have the ability to move in directions that they will -- that their actions are not fatalistically inclined against their wills. Their wills conform their actions to the will's desire.

The problem is the sinfulness of the will.

Is it an assertion of God's concern for the lost?
it's a more interesting proposition, and it would tend to subdivide Calvinists in debate over whether Christ's expressed concern is for reprobates, or a general group of mixed saved & reprobate, or not specifically relevant to salvation but to God's representation by the Israelites, or a group God will eventually bring to salvation, or ... what. The splits develop a "divide & conquer" strategy among opponents to Calvinism. The issue is interesting, though it has multiple answers to consider.
 
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