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Would you still go to church if you found out you were not elect? Since election is impossible to know why waste your time with church. If you are saved you are saved if you are dammed you are dammed either way you can live it up and none of your actions matter one way or the other.
Also God states he loves everyone and wants all to be saved but then only elects a few because he has to show his judgment. That seems to make God impotent. The apostle Paul said "This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.-1 Timothy 2:3-4"
This would imply that God was bound against his will to elect only some so he could show judgment instead of going with his will to save all.
And God desires all to be saved much in the same way he desires all not to murder. When he sent down that command, he didn't think, "oh, maybe now they'll stop killing each other." It's another case of God's standard being higher than what will happen.
So you can suppress predestination?
If God predestined all then isn't murder part of his will?
Blind post
even if I knew I was predestined to go to hell, I would still go to church,
praising God is a good thing, to only do it because you want to get something out of it makes you no better then a mercenary
plus I know I would have to do it now because I would not be able to do it when I get to hell
How would someone find out that they are not elect?Would you still go to church if you found out you were not elect? Since election is impossible to know why waste your time with church. If you are saved you are saved if you are dammed you are dammed either way you can live it up and none of your actions matter one way or the other.
Also God states he loves everyone and wants all to be saved but then only elects a few because he has to show his judgment. That seems to make God impotent. The apostle Paul said "This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.-1 Timothy 2:3-4"
This would imply that God was bound against his will to elect only some so he could show judgment instead of going with his will to save all.
jdbrown said:How would someone find out that they are not elect?
None are righteous and Jesus came for the sinners not the righteous so Jesus came for everyone. How is that different from Catholic or Orthodox Christianity?
20 Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” 11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ 16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
None are righteous and Jesus came for the sinners not the righteous so Jesus came for everyone. How is that different from Catholic or Orthodox Christianity?
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