Calvinism

[ZiSunka]

Do presbyterians have to be calvinists?

 

[HiredGoon]

Short answer: Yes, a presbyterian is someone who holds to the Westminster Confession of Faith, a calvinist confession, and the presbyterian form of church government.

 

[rnmomof7]

I do not understand the connection of the 2 things.

I do not know if all Presbyterians without exception are Calvinist. I come from a church that has non Calvinist members.

However in the conservative Presbyterian Churches Reform doctrine is taught and preached.

I believe that everyone that has repented and has faith in Jesus Christ as his Savior is saved.I believe all of the saved are elect of God even if they do not know the doctrine or believe in election.

I am not quite clear how someone could not know they are saved.. We are told after we are saved we are a new creation. The scripture says we have the witness of the Holy Spirit to our salvation.

So if someone says they "hope " they are saved or they are working on it or they "think" they are saved.. I would not be confident in their salvation..

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[rnmomof7]

Short answer: Yes, a presbyterian is someone who holds to the Westminster Confession of Faith, a calvinist confession, and the presbyterian form of church government.

My Presbyterian church does not demand belief in Calvinism to be a member. They only require belief in the basic Christian doctrine and that you have a salvation testimony .

 

[GrinningDwarf]

RC Sproul, in his book Chosen By God, tells of a the president of a Presbyterian seminary who was not a Calvinist because he didn't believe in a God who dragged some people kicking and screaming off to heaven against their wills while shutting others out who might otherwise want to be there. Sproul said he couldn't imagine that the president of a Presbyterian seminary could have such a grossly distorted caricature of Calivinism.

So I guess the answer would be 'no'...apparently you don't have to be a Calvinist to be a Presbyterian.

 

[tigersnare]

Conservative Presbyterians [will] be Calvinsts.

 

[rnmomof7]

Conservative Presbyterians [will] be Calvinsts.

My church is about 1/4 Arminian . The come and are members because they like the fact we are not seeker friendly and the Bible is the foundation of everything we do.

We are VERY conservative.. BTW

 

[HiredGoon]

I have no idea why someone would want to be a member of a Presbyterian church if they were not a calvinist or reformed christian. I stand by my definition in my previous post. A presbyterian (a member of a presbyterian church, not a regular attender) should hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith along with the Larger and Shorter Catechisms (otherwise known as the Westminster Standards) as doctrinal standards subordinate to the Word of God. Anything short of this would be "presbyterian" in name only.

 

[tigersnare]

should hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith along with the Larger and Shorter Catechisms (otherwise known as the Westminster Standards) as doctrinal standards subordinate to the Word of God. Anything short of this would be "presbyterian" in name only.

AGREED!

 

[Willo]

Do presbyterians have to be calvinists?

The evangelist Charles Finney was a presbyterian, but he wasn't a Calvinist

 

[Elderone]

For a few years we attended a PC (USA) church and never heard of the Westminster Documents, TULIP, etc. It wasn't until attending a Reformed Presbyterian Church that we became aware of them.

I'm not sure of the number of people at the PCA we are now attending that know of them. Reformed churches in our area are as scarce as hens teeth, and this is a "second" choice for us.

We, the posters on this forum, probably associate with churches that are Reformed/Calvanist/Conservative because we know the difference. That's what I look for anyway.

 

[St.Augustine]

We are VERY conservative.. BTW

glad to hear it

 

[TheMagi]

I have no idea why someone would want to be a member of a Presbyterian church if they were not a calvinist or reformed christian. I stand by my definition in my previous post. A presbyterian (a member of a presbyterian church, not a regular attender) should hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith along with the Larger and Shorter Catechisms (otherwise known as the Westminster Standards) as doctrinal standards subordinate to the Word of God. Anything short of this would be "presbyterian" in name only.

I disagree. My background is in the Free Church of Scotland, which is as reformed, conservative, and presbyterian as you can get, Westminster confession etc., and obviously, this was the case everywhere until about the 1850's.

But Presbyterianism is a form of Church government; the Westminster confession was written by a Presbyterian assembly, but even at the time there were many Presbyterians who disagreed (wanting a 'lame erastian presbytery'..., etc.) .

Ecclesiology doesn't necessarily impinge on whether you are an Arminian or not! To be a Presbyterian is to want church government by Presbyteries.

Plenty of Presbyterian demnominations are pretty far from the Westminster confession, and have been for over a hundred years - even the Church of Scotland, which officially demands it.

Magi

 

[rnmomof7]

I disagree. My background is in the Free Church of Scotland, which is as reformed, conservative, and presbyterian as you can get, Westminster confession etc., and obviously, this was the case everywhere until about the 1850's.

But Presbyterianism is a form of Church government; the Westminster confession was written by a Presbyterian assembly, but even at the time there were many Presbyterians who disagreed (wanting a 'lame erastian presbytery'..., etc.) .

Ecclesiology doesn't necessarily impinge on whether you are an Arminian or not! To be a Presbyterian is to want church government by Presbyteries.

Plenty of Presbyterian demnominations are pretty far from the Westminster confession, and have been for over a hundred years - even the Church of Scotland, which officially demands it.

Magi

In this country all the conservative Presbyterian denominations are Calvinist in doctrine and standard.
(EPC, OPC , BPC, PCA etc)

 

[cygnusx1]

may I just say that one of the great beauties of 'Calvinism' for me at least is that it is non-denominational , it trancends denominations.


I have met Anglican, Methodist , Presbyterian , Baptist , Pentecostal Calvinists!

And I am almost sure that there might be (I seem to remember seeing it during a google , even Catholic Calvinists , The Augustinian variety )


I myself am not affililiated with any denomination , I am just a Christian who happens to believe many things that each denomination can emphasise .

After all , there was no denominations in the early Church , there was just good Church's and bad church's .Rev 2-3

Also many Christians do tend to seek to establish themselves as THE Church .
And it is strange to me to see at least two massive denominations each claiming that they are the TRUE Church............

 

[Antman_05]

To be a member of the Presbyterian Church you must adhere to the Westmister Confession of Faith.

Becuase you can go to the Pressie Church and not be a member.

So was he a member or was that we he came from?

 

[Gabriel]

As some of you know, I am a Ruling Elder in the PCA. A person who wishes to become a communing member of our particular church, which would make them a Presbyterian in title at least, would be required to attend our new member's class where they are taught our doctrine (which many would call Calvinism, but I like to refer to it simply as what it is and that is; TRUTH, the history of the PCA as well as our particular church, and the WCF. Said interested party must then fall into at least one of the follwing criteria and answer in the affirmative to all five questions in red.

CHAPTER 6 Of The PCA Book of Church Order

Church Members​

6-1. The children of believers are, through the covenant and by right of birth, non-communing members of the church. Hence they are entitled to Baptism, and to the pastoral oversight, instruction and government of the church, with a view to their embracing Christ and thus possessing personally all benefits of the covenant.



6-2. Communing members are those who have made a profession of faith in Christ, have been baptized, and have been admitted by the Session to the Lord's Table. (See BCO 46-4 for associate members).



6-3. All baptized persons are entitled to the watchful care, instruction and government of the church, even though they are adults and have made no profession of their faith in Christ.



6-4. Those only who have made a profession of faith in Christ, have been baptized, and admitted by the Session to the Lord's Table, are entitled to all the rights and privileges of the church. (See BCO 57-4 and 58-4)

1. Do you acknowledge yourselves to be sinners in the sight of God, justly deserving His displeasure, and without hope save in His sovereign mercy?

2. Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and Savior of sinners, and do you receive and rest upon Him alone for salvation as He is offered in the Gospel?

3. Do you now resolve and promise, in humble reliance upon the grace of the Holy Spirit, that you will endeavor to live as becomes the followers of Christ?

4. Do you promise to support the Church in its worship and work to the best of your ability?

5. Do you submit yourselves to the government and discipline of the Church, and promise to study its purity and peace?

 

[TheMagi]

Also many Christians do tend to seek to establish themselves as THE Church .

I'm not sure that this is the case with Presbyterian churches to the same degree. For example - the Free Church of Scotland can be pretty intolerant, but we don't have any problem at all conceding that it is perfectly possible to be a christian without adhering to the full Westminster confession. A 'church' - in the sense of denomination - is held to be a group of people holding the same beliefs, including what might otherwise be considered adiaphora, as other churches: see, for example, 'Hold Fast your Confession', edited by Donald Macleod.

Magi

 

[TheMagi]

In this country all the conservative Presbyterian denominations are Calvinist in doctrine and standard.
(EPC, OPC , BPC, PCA etc)

Yes, it is usualy the case. But why? Isn't it more historical accident? Why should a belief in, say, TULIP, make you regard church government composed of a mix of elders and ministers to be preferable, to say, being an independent, and vice versa?

Magi

 

[Radagast]

...Plenty of Presbyterian demnominations are pretty far from the Westminster confession, and have been for over a hundred years - even the Church of Scotland, which officially demands it...

Isn't that a little inconsistent?

-- Radagast