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Actually, it was quite a bit way more absurd than the OP, which, btw, neither you nor your buddies have been able to refute.
How can one refute was doesn't exist? Your question is bogus. There is no such thing as "FreeGrace2ism". It's just another childish tactic of name calling. But knock yourself out, my child. Seems you can't resist.You failed to refute the excuse people in hell will have in FreeGrace2ism.
... There is no such thing as "FreeGrace2ism"....
The childish tactic of name calling is all you guys have left in your "arsenal".Sure there are. FreeGrace2ism is 1.5pt Arminianism. Anti-Reformed/Calvinist and a zealot extreme Dave Hunt will probably quote you in his next book to back him up.
...Unlike Calvinism and Arminianism though, I CAN and have provided verses that SAY exactly what I believe. ...
Well, of course Jesus would agree with me. I spoke truth, and He IS the truth.
Actually, that is exactly the basis for who He saves. You are mistaken to claim that God chooses who believes by giving them this so-called "gift of faith" that enables them to believe. If that were true, then Paul's answer to the jailer was most disingenuous.Yes it's true the God has chose us for salvation through belief. That point isn't really arguable. That's the means God uses to save (justify). However, God doesn't save because of belief. In other words, He's not using that as a basis for salvation.
OK, another claim from a Calvinist. What verse informs you of that?Belief is an act that has to be done by a spiritually minded person.
There is nothing in this passage, or any other, that SAYS that an unbeliever cannot believe the gospel. In fact, Paul's entire ministry was trying to persuade Jews to believe the gospel message. If you were correct, he wouldn't have had to try to persuade anyone of anything.For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:6-8 NASB)
Until he believes in Christ, which greatly pleases God, and through which, God then saves him. 1 Cor 1:21 teaches what God chooses to do for those who believe.So we have the mind of the flesh (the natural man) being hostile to God. Nothing he does is pleasing to God.
Sure. But just a little bit further in that passage Paul argues that believers still may live according to the sin nature (v.13) and the consequences of doing so. So even believers may "present" themselves as slaves to sin, per 6:16, which precedes ch 8 and provides context for all that follows ch 6.Paul then says:
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Romans 8:9 NASB)
Wow, you have really misunderstood Scripture. One pleases God by faith.So how can one please God? By being in the Spirit. How are we in the Spirit? The Spirit dwells in us.
yes. He calls (which is NOT election, but an invitation) believers. That's who will be conformed to the image of His Son.A few verses later he says this:
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Romans 8:28-30 NASB)
If you honestly look at what this passage says, Paul tells us who God calls (elects). He calls those who are predestined to be confirmed to the image of Christ.
Correct. The call is to believer only.We also know that this isn't a general call to all people. Why? Because it says that those who are called are justified. And I don't think that any of us are universalists.
Of course it is, and I have wholly agreed throughout.So it's clear that Paul believes that salvation is wholly of God. Does he discuss this elsewhere? Sure.
Yes, and what you continue to miss or dodge is that man MUST respond in faith. Acts 16:31 says so.Both of these passages give a beautiful picture of salvation. Both completely God-centered.
You know, even just 1 verse that refutes your theology is enough of a refutation. But apparently you don't believe that.Now, I'm sure there will be naysayers that will try to find a verse here or there to counter this (crazy as that sounds), but for the rest of us, we rest on the truth.
Actually, that is exactly the basis for who He saves. You are mistaken to claim that God chooses who believes by giving them this so-called "gift of faith" that enables them to believe. If that were true, then Paul's answer to the jailer was most disingenuous.
The jailer asked him very clearly what he MUST DO to be saved. And Paul's answer was equally clear: BELIEVE, and you will be saved.
To deny what Acts 16:30 and 31 is teaching is not rational.
OK, another claim from a Calvinist. What verse informs you of that?
There is nothing in this passage, or any other, that SAYS that an unbeliever cannot believe the gospel. In fact, Paul's entire ministry was trying to persuade Jews to believe the gospel message. If you were correct, he wouldn't have had to try to persuade anyone of anything.
Until he believes in Christ, which greatly pleases God, and through which, God then saves him. 1 Cor 1:21 teaches what God chooses to do for those who believe.
Sure. But just a little bit further in that passage Paul argues that believers still may live according to the sin nature (v.13) and the consequences of doing so. So even believers may "present" themselves as slaves to sin, per 6:16, which precedes ch 8 and provides context for all that follows ch 6.
Wow, you have really misunderstood Scripture. One pleases God by faith.
Heb 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
Apparently you weren't aware of this verse when you made that erroneous comment.
yes. He calls (which is NOT election, but an invitation) believers. That's who will be conformed to the image of His Son.
Correct. The call is to believer only.
Of course it is, and I have wholly agreed throughout.
Yes, and what you continue to miss or dodge is that man MUST respond in faith. Acts 16:31 says so.
You know, even just 1 verse that refutes your theology is enough of a refutation. But apparently you don't believe that.
So, Acts 16:30 and 31 is just a "story" to you? Hm.Cool stories, bro. When you're ready to refute, let us know.
So, Acts 16:30 and 31 is just a "story" to you? Hm.
btw, the refutation already occurred. Quite some time ago. I brought the challenges to Calvinism, and none of you refuted me or defended yourselves. I know that you thought you did.
Where is your claimed refutation of anything I've posted? I can find every post disagreeing with my views. Fine. That is not refutation.You've not refuted what I said. So my post stands unrefuted. Posting a story out of context doesn't count. I know you think it's refuting. But it's not.
Where is your claimed refutation of anything I've posted? I can find every post disagreeing with my views. Fine. That is not refutation.
In fact, I challenged Calvinists to show verses that SAY that Christ died ONLY for the elect/some/believers/etc. And you all failed to do so.
I challenged Calvinists to show how Calvinism doesn't provide an excuse for the hell dwellers. And all you guys could come up with is "sin is the reason" they are in hell. Yet, since God ONLY chose some, and Christ ONLY died for that some, that in itself IS an excuse for the hell dwellers. Yet not one Calvinist was able to undersand, or admit it. But it is true.
So, how is it again that you refuted anything I've said, hammster?
Where is your claimed refutation of anything I've posted? I can find every post disagreeing with my views. Fine. That is not refutation.
In fact, I challenged Calvinists to show verses that SAY that Christ died ONLY for the elect/some/believers/etc. And you all failed to do so.
I challenged Calvinists to show how Calvinism doesn't provide an excuse for the hell dwellers. And all you guys could come up with is "sin is the reason" they are in hell. Yet, since God ONLY chose some, and Christ ONLY died for that some, that in itself IS an excuse for the hell dwellers. Yet not one Calvinist was able to undersand, or admit it. But it is true.
So, how is it again that you refuted anything I've said, hammster?
Where is your claimed refutation of anything I've posted? I can find every post disagreeing with my views. Fine. That is not refutation.
In fact, I challenged Calvinists to show verses that SAY that Christ died ONLY for the elect/some/believers/etc. And you all failed to do so.
I challenged Calvinists to show how Calvinism doesn't provide an excuse for the hell dwellers. And all you guys could come up with is "sin is the reason" they are in hell. Yet, since God ONLY chose some, and Christ ONLY died for that some, that in itself IS an excuse for the hell dwellers. Yet not one Calvinist was able to undersand, or admit it. But it is true.
So, how is it again that you refuted anything I've said, hammster?
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