Calvinism in the SBC

miamited · Mar 11, 2011

Hi Knight,

Yea, that's why I asked for a more clear definition of what you meant by 'calvinisism'. I surely agree that mankind is totally depraved and unable to do anything to 'earn' his way to eternal life. However, let me just say that I am not one who defines the act of believing as 'work'. Jesus said to Nicodemus, whosoever will believe, and so I'm just not going to ever understand that the Scriptures teach that there is nothing that a person can 'do' to receive eternal life. We must belief, but I do believe that God opens our heart to the calling of the Holy Spirit to enable us to believe when the gospel is presented and explained to people.

As regards eternal security, yes, I believe that once we are born again we can have eternal security in our coming salvation, but, BUT, that security can only be known by the individual. Only the individual can know that they have the eternal security that comes from the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Only the individual knows whether or not they can 'see' the kingdom of heaven.

I am not agreeable to the teaching of irresistable grace.

Anyway, there's the understanding of a born again believer who worships with a baptist fellowship.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

MatthewDiscipleofGod · Mar 11, 2011

98cwitr said:
If you read and believe the Bible cover to cover, you can't help but develop a TULIP theology.

That isn't true. I have read it cover to cover multiple times. I believe it all. I have even read the N.T. in Greek. I deny ALL 5 points of the TULIP.

miamited · Mar 11, 2011

Hello Matt,

Agreed.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

98cwitr · Mar 11, 2011

MatthewDiscipleofGod said:
That isn't true. I have read it cover to cover multiple times. I believe it all. I have even read the N.T. in Greek. I deny ALL 5 points of the TULIP.

Oh? Seems pretty biblically supported to me

The Five Points of Calvinism, TULIP

the particular baptist · Mar 11, 2011

"It will avail nothing to assent to this or that doctrine, unless the Lord writes it on the heart." ~William Tiptaft (1803-1864), seceder from the Church Of England, pastor of the strict & particular baptist Chapel at Abingdon, England~

JM · Mar 11, 2011

“Are you an Arminian or a Calvinist? If the former, you are a foe; if the latter, a friend.” And thus the most dangerous and insidious enemies of vital godliness are received into the camp of Christ because they can repeat the watchword and wear the dress of His soldiers. Thus I saw truth to be fallen in the streets, vital godliness uncared for, external things highly regarded, Christ’s sheep unfed, and the devil’s goats unseparated."

J. C. PHILPOT [seceder]

Hammster · Mar 12, 2011

I surely agree that mankind is totally depraved and unable to do anything to 'earn' his way to eternal life.

Like I said earlier, if you truly believe in Total Depravity, then you have to be a Calvinist. Otherwise, nobody could be saved.

Hammster · Mar 12, 2011

MatthewDiscipleofGod said:
That isn't true. I have read it cover to cover multiple times. I believe it all. I have even read the N.T. in Greek. I deny ALL 5 points of the TULIP.

Not often we see Baptists deny the security of believers. But at least you are consistent with your beliefs. Kudos.

realtruth101 · Mar 12, 2011

Hammster said:
Another misrepresentation of Calvinists by someone who must not attend church.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

you keep demonstrating your fruit...... and by your own words you say "another misrepresentation of "CALVINIST" whats a Calvinist? Is it not the word used to imply (People who follow the teachings of the man named Calvin). from your own words the bible says your in error, need I post the scripture again? Sectarianism is SIN! reread 1 Corinthians 1:12 was Calvin crucified for you? and you are wrong in your assumption that I don't attend church, not that it would really matter, since you obviously attend church and don't even reconize the word "Calvinist" is sectarianism and the bible says its wrong........read more listen less

DeaconDean · Mar 12, 2011

Knightwolflord said:
Greetings to all my Baptist Christian brothers and sisters in Christ!

I was baptized into the Latin rite of the Catholic Church as a baby, but due to various circumstances I was raised a Southern Baptist. Now, I was a devout Southern Baptist for much of my young life, but I never really thought of myself in denominational terms (i.e. I saw my faith as equivalent to Christianity 101). After I returned to the Catholic Church, and the process of discerning that return (I pretty much had to become a catechumen, lol), I learned that my beliefs were Calvinist, or at least held many Calvinist ideas. I then noticed that many of my Evangelical friends and family members (I am the only practicing Catholic in my family, pretty much everybody else is Baptist) also held ideas that were Calvinist. The more I thought about my past and such, the more I realized how vibrant Calvinism is within the Southern Baptist Convention (reading Lifeway pamphlets is proof enough) and, from my vantage point, American Evangelicalism as a whole.

I wanted to get some thoughts from some of the Baptists here on this. Am I wrong in my perception? If not, why is Calvinism so prevalent?

In any case, I wish everyone here a most blessed Pascha/Easter!

I can't help but notice that you say, rather, I believe that you are now a practicing Catholic.

If you hold to Calvinist beliefs, as your post says, how long do you think you can continue as a Catholic before your Calvinist beliefs clash with Catholic doctrines?

God Bless

Till all are one.

DeaconDean · Mar 12, 2011

realtruth101 said:
you keep demonstrating your fruit...... and by your own words you say "another misrepresentation of "CALVINIST" whats a Calvinist? Is it not the word used to imply (People who follow the teachings of the man named Calvin). from your own words the bible says your in error, need I post the scripture again? Sectarianism is SIN! reread 1 Corinthians 1:12 was Calvin crucified for you? and you are wrong in your assumption that I don't attend church, not that it would really matter, since you obviously attend church and don't even reconize the word "Calvinist" is sectarianism and the bible says its wrong........read more listen less

Friend, I couldn't help but notice that your icon denotes your a "Non-Denominational".

With all due respect, this is the Baptist area, I must respectfully ask that you cease and desist debating here.

Please make yourself familiar with the rules for the Baptist area.

Thank you for your co-operation.

God Bless

Till all are one.

P.S.: Calvinism is a "theology" not a denomination or religion.

Hammster · Mar 12, 2011

realtruth101 said:
you keep demonstrating your fruit...... and by your own words you say "another misrepresentation of "CALVINIST" whats a Calvinist? Is it not the word used to imply (People who follow the teachings of the man named Calvin).

No, it's not. I've read very little Calvin.

from your own words the bible says your in error, need I post the scripture again? Sectarianism is SIN! reread 1 Corinthians 1:12 was Calvin crucified for you? and you are wrong in your assumption that I don't attend church, not that it would really matter, since you obviously attend church and don't even reconize the word "Calvinist" is sectarianism and the bible says its wrong........read more listen less

I assumed that you don't attend church because that would mean that you would have to listen to a pastor, who is a man, and follow what he says. But if you would like to change your view, that's fine with me.

MrJim · Mar 12, 2011

I've been attending SBC for 15 months now and the "eternal security" aspect is the only thing close to Calvinism preached/taught; when they were selecting a pastor in '09 they eliminated any overt Calvinists from the process.

That said this new pastor has said a couple times from the pulpit that "denominations don't matter as long as you love Jesus and follow Him" so he might not be the best representation of SBC clergy (I remind my wife of this whenever I talk to her about moving to the Orthodox Church but she won't budge ).

AndOne · Mar 12, 2011

Knightwolflord said:
PrincetonGuy said:

Whoa, what an AWESOME post! Thanks so much brother!! My question was answered and more, lol.

God's rich blessings on you and your's as well!!

I am worried thought that you might have caused a bit of a rustle with the post, but I suppose you knew that might happen.

In any case, thanks to EVERYONE for their input and taking the time to share with me. Even though I'm Catholic today, I have great affection for my Baptist brothers and sisters. It was in the SBC that I gained my love of Scripture, good preachin', and loving fellowship.

I found all of that here, just by discussing on this forum, lol.

Peace be with everyone, and I wish everybody a blessed Pascha. Though we may disagree on a lot, the one thing on which we base out ultimate hope is the common faith:

He is Risen! AMEN!!

Click to expand...

I find this rather ironic - the one post that most reflects agreement with Catholic doctrine is the one you jump on with adoration, praise and agreement. Something tells me you really didn't come in here with a goal of real discussion on this matter...

MatthewDiscipleofGod · Mar 12, 2011

Hammster said:
Not often we see Baptists deny the security of believers. But at least you are consistent with your beliefs. Kudos.

I believe in the eternity security of believers. I thought I use to believe in the P in TULIP until I started to get a better understanding of what exactly Calvinists mean when they talk about Perseverance.

98cwitr · Mar 12, 2011

MrJim said:
"denominations don't matter as long as you love Jesus and follow Him"

couldn't agree more!

Reader Antonius · Mar 12, 2011

DeaconDean said:
I can't help but notice that you say, rather, I believe that you are now a practicing Catholic.

If you hold to Calvinist beliefs, as your post says, how long do you think you can continue as a Catholic before your Calvinist beliefs clash with Catholic doctrines?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Whoops, sorry, that was a miswording on my part. I no longer hold to any of Calvin's beliefs (accept those which are in accord with orthodox Catholicism). I believe and accept (and I have since my early days as a post-baptismal catechumen) all that the Catholic Church teaches "as true and revealed by God." (as a common profession puts it).

Now, what's interesting about that is that we, as Catholics, believe that many times the Reformers got things right. Calvin, for his part, did get some things somewhat right...he just went too far for us.

Interesting article y'all might find interesting:

A TIPTOE THROUGH TULIP (This Rock: September 1993)

JM · Mar 12, 2011

Knightwolflord said:
Now, what's interesting about that is that we, as Catholics, believe that many times the Reformers got things right. Calvin, for his part, did get some things somewhat right...he just went too far for us.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9309fea1.asp

Are you engaging in polemics, in the Baptist forum?

...and as you know Catholic dogma is eisogesis and not exegesis. Calvin wasn't perfect but he did try to read the word the way the author intended it to be written.

jm

[exegesis: objectivism. To explain what the Scripture says. Greek, to guide out of." "ex" means "from" or "out of"

eisogesis: subjectivism. Reading into text something that isnt there at all. Greek. Same root as exegesis with different prefix. "eis" means "into."]

Reader Antonius · Mar 12, 2011

Reader Antonius · Mar 12, 2011

Are you engaging in polemics, in the Baptist forum?

No! That was not my intention, merely to provide what I thought was an interesting thing that I discovered in becoming Catholic.

...and as you know Catholic dogma is eisogesis and not exegesis.
jm

No, I don't "know" that because it's wrong...not to mention irrelevant to this discussion.

Indeed, I am beginning to think I had better leave this discussion and return to OBOB...

Calvinism in the SBC

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