Calendar of Hillel

gadar perets said:

But it is not binding on the Messianic community. Yeshua taught us it is more important to keep the Almighty's commandments than the traditions of men.

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Yet he endorsed at least one tradition (tithing dill, mint, cumin.)

He also told his followers that they must do ALL that the Scribes and Pharisees instructed them to do.

Steve Petersen said:

Read this:

The Biblical Basis for Rabbinic Authority

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I totally agree with that article as it pertains to the Jewish community that does not believe Yeshua is the Messiah. They must do as their judges teach. Not so with the Messianic community. Yeshua is our Rabbi and judge. He has sent the Holy Spirit to live in us, teach us and guide us through life. He also gave us Apostles who explained further how we should live and what we should believe. If we accept Rabbinic authority, then none of us would be permitted to believe in Yeshua and follow him. We would need to keep Torah as they rule it should be kept, including all the burdensome, man-made rules and traditions they imposed upon people in the Talmud and other writings. No thanks. Yeshua set me free from traditions that actually cause me to break Yahweh's commandments.

Steve Petersen said:

Yet he endorsed at least one tradition (tithing dill, mint, cumin.)

He also told his followers that they must do ALL that the Scribes and Pharisees instructed them to do.

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When the Pharisees in Yeshua's day had caused the people to break Yahweh's commandments in order to keep their own traditions, the Messiah rebuked them for it (Matthew 15:1-20). Since Yeshua kept the feasts with the Jews and never mentioned any calendar errors, we can assume that there weren't any. If there were calendar errors, then Messiah sinned with them. Yet we know that he was sinless. Therefore, calendar errors arose after Messiah's day.

Yeshua pointed out the fact that the Pharisees, who sit in Moses' seat, were causing the people to sin against Yahweh's commandments. Since we are to sin no more, then we should not follow those who sit in Moses' seat if they too, cause us to sin.

After Yeshua spoke those words in Matthew 23:3-4, he continued to rebuke the scribes and Pharisees worse than any group of people in the Bible. He culminated his rebuke with, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Eventually their city and temple were destroyed.

I do not believe any Jew who has not accepted Yeshua as the Messiah can sit in Moses seat with authority over a believer. I base this belief on the Apostle Paul's parable of the olive tree in Romans 11:17-21. Any Israelite who rejects Messiah and walks in unbelief is as a branch broken off the tree (vs.20). They will not be saved unless they emulate Paul by believing in Yeshua (vs.14). Some Israelites believed and are therefore called "the election" (vs.7). The rest were blinded including those who sat in Moses seat. All that is written from vss.7-15 pertains to them. Yes, they can be grafted onto the tree again, but only if they do not continue in unbelief. 2 Corinthians 3:14-16 says, "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Messiah. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Master, the vail shall be taken away." Any modern day Rabbinic judge who refuses to believe that Yeshua Messiah has come in the flesh cannot possibly sit in Moses seat with authority over a believer.

visionary said:

So what is the first day of the week for the civil Hebrew Calendar?

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The days of the week can vary with the Civil Hebrew Calendar. The Biblical Calendar keeps the day of the week on the same days. In other words, Passover is always on Saturday, and Unleavened Bread is always on Sunday. What calendar do you think Christ and the disciple used?

What part of 'all' did Jesus exempt his disciples from?

Steve Petersen said:

What part of 'all' did Jesus exempt his disciples from?

Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do​

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"All" within the parameters of the Law of Moses as they interpreted him. "All" must be qualified as it is in many other places. For example, was Eve the "mother of ALL living"? No, just of living humans; Do believers really "know all things" (1 John 2:20)? No, only what the Holy One wants us to know.

CherubRam said:

The days of the week can vary with the Civil Hebrew Calendar. The Biblical Calendar keeps the day of the week on the same days. In other words, Passover is always on Saturday, and Unleavened Bread is always on Sunday. What calendar do you think Christ and the disciple used?

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Can you give me a link to this type of calendar?

visionary said:

Can you give me a link to this type of calendar?

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CherubRam's calendar sounds like the calendar similar to that found in Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees. But according to Josephus and Philo, the Herodian-era priests used a lunar calendar.

gadar perets said:

There are also times when the Rabbinic Paschal month is a full month later than the sighted moon calendar. There have been years when the barley was harvest ready, but an Adar II was added.

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Here I will take no position on the question of whether the Scriptures' agricultural criteria for the Festival of Unleavened Bread are consistent with the Scriptures' calendar dates for the same festival, or whether they can be reconciled only by certain contrivances. The Talmud [b. Rosh HaShanah 21a] gives an astronomical criterion for the intercalation of the year, and by this criterion some of the intercalations are indeed premature. I mentioned this indirectly in my first post when I noted that the Rabbinic calendar has a slight solar drift. Hence proposals to "rectify" the Rabbinic calendar.

gadar perets said:

Also, the Rabbinic calendar will not allow Yom Kippur to fall on a Friday or Sunday.

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Indeed, Rosh HaShanah cannot fall on Sunday, Wednesday, or Friday, so Yom Kippur cannot fall on Tuesday, Friday, or Sunday.

Mockingbird0 said:

CherubRam's calendar sounds like the calendar similar to that found in Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees. But according to Josephus and Philo, the Herodian-era priests used a lunar calendar.

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Correct. A 364 solar day a year calendar with a leap year. It seems that people do not know the difference between a biblical and civil calendar.

visionary said:

Can you give me a link to this type of calendar?

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Sorry, I have no link to such a calendar. Anyway, it is a 364 solar day calendar with a leap year. It works to keep the festival dates of the same day of the week.

gadar perets said:

It is not a matter of disagreeing with me, but with Torah. The lambs were killed on the 14th, not the 13th. Therefore, Yeshua was killed on the 14th, not the 13th. Provide your Scriptural evidence supporting the 13th.

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OK, i've changed the timeline that's hopefully more to your LIKING

Matthew 26:17-20 (CJB)
17 On the first day for matzah (13 Nissan), the talmidim came to Yeshua and asked, “Where do you want us to prepare your Seder?” (14 Nissan)
18 “Go into the city, to so-and-so,” he replied, “and tell him that the Rabbi says, ‘My time is near, my talmidim and I are celebrating Pesach (14 Nissan) at your house.’”
19 The talmidim did as Yeshua directed and prepared the Seder (on 13 Nissan for Seder that evening on 14 Nissan).
20 When evening came, Yeshua reclined with the twelve talmidim; (14 Nissan)

Mark 14:1, 12, 17 CJB
1 It was now two days before (12 Nissan) Pesach (14 Nissan),
12 On the first day for matzah (13 Nissan), when they slaughtered the lamb (13 Nissan) for Pesach (14 Nissan), Yeshua’s talmidim asked him, “Where do you want us to go and prepare your Seder?”
17 When evening came, Yeshua arrived with the Twelve.(14 Nissan)

Luke 23:54-55 (CJB)
54 It was Preparation Day (14 Nissan), and a Shabbat was about to begin (possibly a Special? Shabbat)
55 The women who had come with Yeshua from the Galil followed; they saw the tomb and how His body was placed in it.

John 13:1-2 (CJB)
1 It was just before the festival of Pesach, and Yeshua knew that the time had come for him to pass from this world to the Father. Having loved his own people in the world, he loved them to the end.
2 They were at supper, (14 Nissan) and the Adversary had already put the desire to betray him into the heart of Y’hudah Ben-Shim‘on from K’riot.

John 19:14 CJB
it was about noon on Preparation Day (14 Nissan) for Pesach (14 Nissan). He said to the Judeans, “Here’s your king!”


Matthew 12:40 CJB
For just as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth.

1. Yeshua didn’t arrive with His Disciples until evening … the beginning of the next day (14 Nissan) ... Matthew 26:20; Mark 14:17
2. Yeshua was crucified on Preparation Day, (14 Nissan) ... Luke 23:54-55: John 13:1-2; John 19:14
3. The first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread and Pesach (14 Nissan) ... Matthew 26:17; Mark 14:12

AbbaLove said:

OK, i've changed the timeline that's hopefully more to your LIKING

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I don't like it. My corrections are in red.

Matthew 26:17-20 (CJB)
17 On the first day for matzah (13 Nissan Abib 14- the 13th has nothing to do with matzah. The sun had already set beginning the evening of the 14th), the talmidim came to Yeshua and asked, “Where do you want us to prepare your Seder?” (14 Nissan Abib 15)
18 “Go into the city, to so-and-so,” he replied, “and tell him that the Rabbi says, ‘My time is near, my talmidim and I are celebrating Pesach (14 Nissan Abib 15) at your house.’”
19 The talmidim did as Yeshua directed and prepared the Seder (on 13 Nissan Abib 14 for Seder that next evening on 14 Nissan Abib 15).
20 When evening (night) came, Yeshua reclined with the twelve talmidim; (14 Nissan) This was a pre-Seder meal consisting of the festal offering, not the Passover lamb. The lambs were not killed until the afternoon of the 14th.

Luke 22:7-14 (CJB)
7 Then came the day of matzah, on which the Passover lamb had to be killed. (Abib 14 Exodus 12:6) 8 Yeshua sent Kefa and Yochanan, instructing them, "Go and prepare our Seder, so we can eat." 9 They asked him, "Where do you want us to prepare it?" 10 He told them, "As you're going into the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him into the house he enters, 11 and say to its owner, `The Rabbi says to you, "Where is the guest room, where I am to eat the Pesach meal with my talmidim?" ' 12 He will show you a large room upstairs already furnished; make the preparations there." 13 They went and found things just as Yeshua had told them they would be, and they prepared for the Seder. 14 When the time came, Yeshua and the emissaries reclined at the table,

Mark 14:1, 12, 17 CJB
1 It was now two days before (12 Nissan) Pesach (14 Nissan),
12 On the first day for matzah (13 Nissan Abib 14), when they slaughtered the lamb (13 Nissan Abib 14) for Pesach (14 Nissan), Yeshua’s talmidim asked him, “Where do you want us to go and prepare your Seder?”
17 When evening (night) came, Yeshua arrived with the Twelve.(14 Nissan)

Luke 23:54-55 (CJB)
54 It was Preparation Day (14 Nissan), and a Shabbat was about to begin (possibly a Special? Shabbat Shabbat) The weekly Sabbath and the first day of Unleavened Bread fell on the same day.
55 The women who had come with Yeshua from the Galil followed; they saw the tomb and how His body was placed in it.

John 13:1-2 (CJB)
1 It was just before the festival of Pesach, and Yeshua knew that the time had come for him to pass from this world to the Father. Having loved his own people in the world, he loved them to the end.
2 They were at supper, (14 Nissan) and the Adversary had already put the desire to betray him into the heart of Y’hudah Ben-Shim‘on from K’riot.

John 19:14 CJB
it was about noon on Preparation Day (14 Nissan) for Pesach (14 Nissan). He said to the Judeans, “Here’s your king!”


Matthew 12:40 CJB
For just as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth. This is an idiom that is not to be understood literally, just like "its raining cats and dogs" is not literal.

1. Yeshua didn’t arrive with His Disciples until evening … the beginning of the next day (14 Nissan) ... Matthew 26:20; Mark 14:17
2. Yeshua was crucified on Preparation Day, (14 Nissan) ... Luke 23:54-55: John 13:1-2; John 19:14
3. The first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread (Abib 15 ) and Pesach (14 Nissan) ... Matthew 26:17; Mark 14:12

There are a lot more clues to help determine the correct time element.

1John2:4 said:

Do you use this calendar, Why or why not ?

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I "use" the Rabbinic calendar in the sense that I keep track of it in order to be aware of what is happening in my Jewish friends' lives.

If I were of your party, I would use whatever calendar my congregation used.

If I were in a position to offer suggestions, I would recommend the Gregorian lunar calendar as a convenient way of computing the age of the moon. Or I would recommend a computation similar to the Rabbinic but using an updated value for the synodic lunar month and including an explicit equinox-point.

My how many have fallen into error after the Torah, 1 Enoch, and Jubilees makes it clear that by observing the moon as the basis for our calendar will we fall into error: and this is no surprise as Jesus said that those who walk in the darkness will stumble as the moon and stars rule the night which, is connected with evil and death; but, light is connected with good and life. Before God created the light and the darkness (Isaiah 45:7) did He work in the Darkness or the Light? BIG HINT (see Daniel 2:22 Cf. I John 1:5).

YHWH_will_uplift said:

My how many have falleeeen into error after the Torah, 1 Enoch, and Jubilees makes it clear that by observing the moon as the basis for our calendar will we fall into error: and this is no surprise as Jesus said that those who walk in the darkness will stumble as the moon and stars rule the night which, is connected with evil and death; but, light is connected with good and life. Before God created the light and the darkness (Isaiah 45:7) did He work in the Darkness or the Light? BIG HINT (see Daniel 2:22 Cf. I John 1:5).

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Where does Torah say it is an error to base our calendar on the moon? Do you mean the moon alone without the sun?

gadar perets said:

Where does Torah say it is an error to base our calendar on the moon? Do you mean the moon alone without the sun?

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It is not explicitly stated, rather it is implied in Genesis 1:3-5, 14-19 which describes the light as good and the Day in which the sun rules; but, the moon is the lesser light which rules the Night and is in contrast to the light: evil. Jesus also tells us that those who walk in the light of day will not stumble: but those who walk in the darkness of night will stumble for they have no light in themselves.

visionary said:

Can you give me a link to this type of calendar?

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I forgot about the Dead Sea Scrolls Calendar.
Qumran calendrical texts: Qumran calendrical texts - Wikipedia

The year and each of its quarters starts on the same day, the fourth day of the week (Wednesday to us). This was the day when the sun was created in Genesis 1:14-18.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

It is not explicitly stated, rather it is implied in Genesis 1:3-5, 14-19 which describes the light as good and the Day in which the sun rules; but, the moon is the lesser light which rules the Night and is in contrast to the light: evil. Jesus also tells us that those who walk in the light of day will not stumble: but those who walk in the darkness of night will stumble for they have no light in themselves.

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The moon plays an important part in setting YHWH's feasts as well as in determining days and years. The moon is a sign in the sky that a new month has begun as well as a new year when it works in conjunction with the sun and stars. Yet, the calendar you espouse seems to totally disregard the moon.