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Buddhism

Exist

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Is it just me, or is Buddhism nihilism in disguise?




Fact: life is suffering

If you utterly quit caring about life, then it won't seem to suck as bad.


That's what the basic teachings are, right? How is this considered good teachings?


Note, there are many parts of Buddhism that I really like, teachings that I think everybody could learn from, but the basic underlying beliefs are disgusting to me.

Would you agree? Or am I misunderstanding Buddhism?
 

jinkazama

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Exist said:
Is it just me, or is Buddhism nihilism in disguise?




Fact: life is suffering

If you utterly quit caring about life, then it won't seem to suck as bad.


That's what the basic teachings are, right? How is this considered good teachings?


Note, there are many parts of Buddhism that I really like, teachings that I think everybody could learn from, but the basic underlying beliefs are disgusting to me.

Would you agree? Or am I misunderstanding Buddhism?

In Buddhism it teaches that suffering is caused by desire and want, because of craving, but that this condition was curable by following the 8 noble path.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism
 
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Cathulhu

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I think thats a pretty big misunderstanding. (Also, watch out with the word nihilism, it is generally viewed as an insulting term, and does not mean just that life is bad) Rather, I think, Buddhism is about finding a state of internal peace so that one may escape the earthly ties and needs of being human. BUUUUUT... I am not a buddhist, so who knows.
 
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Exist

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"Rather, I think, Buddhism is about finding a state of internal peace so that one may escape the earthly ties and needs of being human."

Yes, and that is done through releasing all attachment.

Even when you act good, you don't become attached to the goodness.

Because through attachment comes suffering.

You brush away all desires you have in life, you don't become attached to anything, and they call you "enlightened".


It's apparent that I'm not enlightened, because I just don't get it. Even after reading several books on it, including first hand texts (Discourses of the Buddha, The Diamond Sutra).

So can anybody explain this to me? Or will it just forever be disgusting to me?
 
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Exist

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"Also, watch out with the word nihilism, it is generally viewed as an insulting term, and does not mean just that life is bad"

You're right, it means that this life we have in front of us is false.

I used it to mean that the life in front of us is meaningless. That our desires are meaningless, that everything is meaningless.

When it comes to literal Buddhism, the goal our life is to end the cycle of life for yourself. Right now, you keep reincarnated, but since life is suffering, you don't want that.
 
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serena

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The Four Noble Truths
Whilst seated beneath the Bodhi tree the Buddha experienced the four noble truths:

Dukkha: All existence is unsatisfactory and filled with suffering

Trsna: The root of suffering can be defined as a craving or clinging to the wrong things; searching to find stability in a shifting world is the wrong way

Nirvana: It is possible to find an end to suffering

The Noble Eightfold path is the way to finding the solution to suffering and bring it to an end



Buddhism teaches that all life is interconnected, so compassion is natural and important.


So no I don't think it is essentially nihilism in disguise.
 
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Exist

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Perhaps it is because you are using a differant view of "goodness' Perhaps if you viewed goodness less as a thing, and more as a state of lacking "badness" that one could not become "attached to"

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Goodness isn't a thing. But you can become attached to being good. Buddhism says don't do that.
 
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arunma

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Exist said:
Is it just me, or is Buddhism nihilism in disguise?

I don't approve of the Buddhist religion, and I think it is sin. But no, I would not say that it is nihilism. Recall that in Southeast Asia, Buddhist monks in the 60's protested public policy by burning themselves in the streets. In modern day Sri Lanka, Buddhists will bomb churches in order to prevent people from becoming Christians. While the latter action is quite evil, both go to show that Buddhists do concern themselves with the outside world.
 
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Eudaimonist

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jinkazama said:
In Buddhism it teaches that suffering is caused by desire and want, because of craving, but that this condition was curable by following the 8 noble path.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

Yes, but how is that different from the nihilism described in the OP?
 
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Aradia

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Exist said:
Is it just me, or is Buddhism nihilism in disguise?

First, you'd have to define a working understanding of buddhism and nihilism. Not necessarily an easy task unless one is well-read in both areas.

Fact: life is suffering

If you utterly quit caring about life, then it won't seem to suck as bad.

That's what the basic teachings are, right?

As a matter of fact, no.

1) The five aggregates are suffering. (pancupadanakkhandha dukkha)
2) Craving (tanha) is the cause of suffering.
3) The letting go of craving is the cessation of suffering.
4) The noble eightfold path leads to the cessation of suffering.

Nothing about "life is suffering" or "utterly quit caring". Of course, to get the full meaning, some research into the pali words helps.
 
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vajradhara

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Namaste Exist,

thank you for the post.

Exist said:
Is it just me, or is Buddhism nihilism in disguise?

well... it's not just you.. many Western Hemisphere beings hold this mistaken view of Buddha Dharma.

you do realize that there is not one monolithic philosophical point of view to be found in the Buddha Dharma, yes? there are, in fact, four different philosophical points of view to be found in Buddhism.

Fact: life is suffering

this seems to be a paraphrase of the First Noble Truth.

the First Noble Truth is not that "life is suffering" rather, it is: sentient beings experience dukkha.

so, what is a sentient being? for the purposes of our conversation a sentient being is either an animal or a human or an insect (though they are part of the "animals" in Buddhist terminology).

then we need to determine what the term "dukkha" means. "dukkha" is a Pali term which has several varient meanings depending on the context of the usage of the term. it means, amongst other things, phyiscal pain, phyiscal bliss, emotional pain, emotional bliss, joy, anger, happiness, hatred, envy, greed and so forth. essentially, the term is meant to denote the entire range of emotional and physical states.

so, the First Noble Truth is not that "life is suffering" it is, rather;

Sentient life is characterized by emotional and physical states, some of which are pleasant and some of which are unpleasant.

If you utterly quit caring about life, then it won't seem to suck as bad.

whilst that may be so, that is not the Buddhist point of view. in fact, it could well be said that Buddhism is supremely concerned with life... in particular, this current Human rebirth. it is, in the Buddhist view, the most valuable of all rebirth states.

That's what the basic teachings are, right?

simply, no.

the "basics" of Buddhism are pretty straight forward however, since they are predicated upon philosophical teachings, without a fair grasp of those philosophical teachings it is unlikely that we will have a very solid cognition of the Sutra teachings themselves, in my view.

in any event, if you are interested in the "basics" of our teachings, then i would highly recommend this site:
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/basic-guide.htm

How is this considered good teachings?

let's save this question for after you've become familiar with the basics and see if you still have this question.

Note, there are many parts of Buddhism that I really like, teachings that I think everybody could learn from, but the basic underlying beliefs are disgusting to me.

Would you agree? Or am I misunderstanding Buddhism?

from what you've posted, you've completely misunderstood what is being taught and why. that's ok, however, provided that you are not convinced that you have correctly understood them and are willing to learn :)

metta,

~v
 
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asianangel

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In modern day Sri Lanka, Buddhists will bomb churches in order to prevent people from becoming Christians. While the latter action is quite evil, both go to show that Buddhists do concern themselves with the outside world.

No way! Seriously? One of my friends told me that Buddhism is the only religion that hasn't done anything violent! That is a surprise.
 
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arunma

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No way! Seriously? One of my friends told me that Buddhism is the only religion that hasn't done anything violent! That is a surprise.

This seems to be a lie perpetuated by Western media, which would have us believe that all Buddhists are free of violence. I once explained the violence of the Sri Lankan Buddhists to an atheist individual, who responded with utter disbelief, claiming "it's just not in their nature." No, Buddhism has caused its fair share of violence.
 
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Beanieboy

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Is it just me, or is Buddhism nihilism in disguise?

Fact: life is suffering

If you utterly quit caring about life, then it won't seem to suck as bad.

That's what the basic teachings are, right? How is this considered good teachings?

Note, there are many parts of Buddhism that I really like, teachings that I think everybody could learn from, but the basic underlying beliefs are disgusting to me.

Would you agree? Or am I misunderstanding Buddhism?

M. Scott Peck, a christian therapist who wrote The Road Less Traveled, starts the book by saying this:

"Life is hard. Once you realize this, it becomes easier."

His point is - anything worth having is worth working hard for,
Often, people whine about "why is it so hard?" Why is it so hard to stay fit? I have to run and exercise every other day!!! Can't I just do it once a month?? Can't I just lightly jog for 5 minutes and then watch a movie?

No. You have to work in this life. That's a fact of life. And people that don't want to work, won't accept that you have to study hard to get a good grade, have to practice to improve a skill, that sometimes, you have to do things you don't want to do - exercise, wash your clothes, etc., are usually unhappy.

But once you realize that it creates discipline, that if you get done the things you don't want to do, you have a lot of time left over for the things you do want to do, you are much happier.

If Buddhism was a pessimistic religion, it would stop with "life is suffering", but it says that suffering is caused by attachment/cravings and wants, and being unattached and releasing ourselves from cravings and wants ends our suffering.

In The Road Less Traveled, a woman came to Peck complaining that she hated her work. He asked her how she ate cake. She said, "I eat the frosting because it tastes best, and the cake last. " He soon found out that she spent 7 hours dreading the work she had to do, and leaving it until the end of the day. She avoided what was unpleasant. She promised to try to do the least pleasant work first, for the first hour. She did so, and came back saying, "It wasn't so bad! And then I could spend 7 hours doing things I loved to do!"

It's the same idea.
Buddhism teaches to just allow things to be as they are.
Most people crave complements, and feel crushed by insults.
In Buddhism, you weigh the insult, but don't hang on to it. You let it pass through you. In the same way, you don't hang on to complements, but also let them pass.

Then you find that you no longer crave nor need complements for reassurance, and the insults only effect you if there is some truth to be learned. If there is no truth in them, you simply shrug them off.

That's the idea.

The way it is explained in Buddhism is that you are on a path toward your home. There are beautiful and ugly things on either side. Despite the fact that you avoid the ugly, and are attracted to the beautiful things, if you become controlled by the pleasures on the side of the road, you will never reach your home.

Most people see life as being full of gratification - doing whatever brings pleasure. You can see this by people that become slaves to their TV, people that medicate themselves by drinking heavily, heavy drug use, shopaholics, etc.
I once had a boss who would eat Skittles and drink Mountain Dew for breakfast. Pleasure - but not necessarily a good meal replacement.

So, to break the cycle, you do the opposite. Instead of thinking about what you "need" (which usualy means want) you give. So many people complain about what they don't have, thinking that if they simply get a bigger TV, a better game system, that one more pair of shoes, they will be happy. But they aren't. So, they tell themselves, just one more pair, maybe.

But if we spent more time giving to others, we would soon see that it's about giving, and not about receiving, and that is what brings joy.

We tell that to our children: It's better to give than to receive. But we don't practice it, and it's not shown in mainstream culture. It's more about receiving. On one commercial, two women in a suburb look at a car with a big bow, being polite while trying to figure out if it is for themselves, and hoping it is.

Slowly, we move away from "Me" and start thinking about "us".

So, it's the opposite of nihilism. It may be the nihilism of self to make us realize that no one is an island, but all part of the human family, all connected.
 
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Beanieboy

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You brush away all desires you have in life, you don't become attached to anything, and they call you "enlightened".


It's apparent that I'm not enlightened, because I just don't get it.

If you simply are questioning the concept, you are on the path.
Most people live their whole lives, attached and never thinking twice.

They define worth of a person by what a person owns. (Does that mean that Bill Gates is worth more as a soul than Mother Teresa?)

If you watch Sex in the City, Carrie doesn't simply enjoy shoes. She needs shoes, hundreds of expensive pairs, and her desire is never satiated.

It's that idea - that one craves the way an alcoholic craves alcohol. One or two beers isn't enough. 12 might not be enough. It tries to satiate the unsatiable.

Does that mean that you should have no desire?
Not at all.

You simply shouldn't be controlled by your desires, the way an alcoholic is controlled by alcohol. I drink a beer or two. However, I had a friend that couldn't really enjoy herself unless she was drinking - brunch, lunchtime football, evening, going to the movies, the zoo - she always had to be drinking.

So, while I can have a glass of wine with friends, I don't have to have a drink to enjoy my friends. She, on the other hand, wanted the drink first, the friends or whatever second.

It's the desire's control of you that you avoid.

The bible says, "What does it benefit you if you gain the whole world but lose your soul?"
Same idea - if your desire to be rich makes you compromise your honesty, your kindness, your generosity - you have enpoverished yourself willingly for a lot of money.

And chances are, you won't be happy, so you will try and make even more money, because if you just made another $10,000 a year...

It's like alcoholism.

If you aren't happy right now, with what you have, nothing you gain will bring you happiness.
But if you are happy right now, even if you lose your money, you will remain happy, right now.

That's the goal.
 
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Dust and Ashes

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This may not be the best place to post this since it isn't really related to the OP but I have a question.

What is the story behind the "fat Buddha" statues that I see? I don't know much about Buddhism but from what I've read, Siddhartha Gautama was a great ascetic. Thanks.

Forgive me.
 
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Eudaimonist

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If you aren't happy right now, with what you have, nothing you gain will bring you happiness.
But if you are happy right now, even if you lose your money, you will remain happy, right now.

That's the goal.

Interestingly, Stoicism has a very similar message and motivation.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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