British schooling system

[squeak]

Hey!

I was just wondering what everyone here thought of the schooling system we have here in the UK...and the options that are available for education.

I guess you could say I'm at the peak of the education system. I can't really complain about it too much...except for the confusion caused when talking to friends from other countries in Britain

What do you think of the way exams/qualifications are currently organised, and the points at which students can make choices regarding their own education?

Also, with topics such as science, how do you feel about the teaching of the beginnings of the world?

 

[spoiltbrat2003]

whatever

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Hey!

I was just wondering what everyone here thought of the schooling system we have here in the UK...and the options that are available for education.

I guess you could say I'm at the peak of the education system. I can't really complain about it too much...except for the confusion caused when talking to friends from other countries in Britain

What do you think of the way exams/qualifications are currently organised, and the points at which students can make choices regarding their own education?

Also, with topics such as science, how do you feel about the teaching of the beginnings of the world?

Great questions, Squeak!

I've experience of both the UK and the US systems - UK as pupil, parent and teacher, and US as a parent. I have to say I much prefer the UK system, obviously because I am more familiar with it, but I do think that our curriculum seems to be more relevent .

Within the UK system, I have very varied experiences too. I grew up in Scotland several decades ago, and so that was one system in a particular time. What I did like about the Scottish system is that it stays broad for longer, although the English system of AS levels is catching up.

Here in England, I have experience of prep, public and state schools, and I must say that I think the independent sector is so much better educationally that the state sector. It's the holistic approach to education that I find distinctive, not just the smaller class sizes and better discipline.

I find the independent sector to be far less bureaucratic than state - it is less rigid which is mostly a good thing, but accountability may be lower too (more likely to be an issue in prep schools). I find that in high performing state schools, the lesson plans and outcomes are very prescriptive, whereas there is more opportunity to bring in personal flair when this barrier is removed.

As for Science - we have had a major change to GCSE this year. It is really quite different to the tweaks there have been over the years. It's a culture shock for us Science teachers - and has both advantages and disadvantages. It is a very slimmed down curriculum, but supposedly more relevent. It will be a hard jump from GCSE to AS - but then they are changing A-levels starting next year. The jury is still out until the first exam results are out this year (they take a Science GCSE in Year 10 now, and the second part of the Double award in Year 11.

I think it is fairly easy for a Christian teacher to manage the new Science GCSE - it's a lot easier than the previous syllabi. The focus is less on knowledge (ie big bang or whatever), and much more on attitude and developing skills at assessing evidence. I just taught a Biology section on Evolution and a Physics section the Big Bang, and I was able to bring the Biblical record into each without any awkwardness. The kids really wanted to discuss the Science vs Religion issue, and it was really helpful that I could blag my way through their questions.

 

[squeak]

Great questions, Squeak!

I've experience of both the UK and the US systems - UK as pupil, parent and teacher, and US as a parent. I have to say I much prefer the UK system, obviously because I am more familiar with it, but I do think that our curriculum seems to be more relevent .

Within the UK system, I have very varied experiences too. I grew up in Scotland several decades ago, and so that was one system in a particular time. What I did like about the Scottish system is that it stays broad for longer, although the English system of AS levels is catching up.

Here in England, I have experience of prep, public and state schools, and I must say that I think the independent sector is so much better educationally that the state sector. It's the holistic approach to education that I find distinctive, not just the smaller class sizes and better discipline.

I find the independent sector to be far less bureaucratic than state - it is less rigid which is mostly a good thing, but accountability may be lower too (more likely to be an issue in prep schools). I find that in high performing state schools, the lesson plans and outcomes are very prescriptive, whereas there is more opportunity to bring in personal flair when this barrier is removed.

As for Science - we have had a major change to GCSE this year. It is really quite different to the tweaks there have been over the years. It's a culture shock for us Science teachers - and has both advantages and disadvantages. It is a very slimmed down curriculum, but supposedly more relevent. It will be a hard jump from GCSE to AS - but then they are changing A-levels starting next year. The jury is still out until the first exam results are out this year (they take a Science GCSE in Year 10 now, and the second part of the Double award in Year 11.

I think it is fairly easy for a Christian teacher to manage the new Science GCSE - it's a lot easier than the previous syllabi. The focus is less on knowledge (ie big bang or whatever), and much more on attitude and developing skills at assessing evidence. I just taught a Biology section on Evolution and a Physics section the Big Bang, and I was able to bring the Biblical record into each without any awkwardness. The kids really wanted to discuss the Science vs Religion issue, and it was really helpful that I could blag my way through their questions.

Yea I have quite a few friends from Scotland and I've noticed how different their system is. In some ways I think I'd actually prefer it...however I wouldn't go there at this stage in my education, it would be too much of a change.(we had the oppurtunity to move this past summer, but thought best due to the differences in school systems).

I really like the whole idea of 6th form...a lot...it's that stepping stone between school and university (teachers have actually told us it gets easier after 6th form ). I've found that since being in 6th form my confidence in myself has grown a lot, I'm a lot more independent and it really helps you to mature as well. As our 6th form head said, it's that last push before becoming an adult.

School seems to be a lot of stepping stones and gradually bringing you into the next stage of things... I mean, year7; the teachers I've talked to...and fellow pupils...all say not much learning is done in first year of high school, however it serves as a year for them to get into the swing of things of high school.

I think the best schools are the ones that allow pupils to grow, develop & mature as people, giving them more options and responsibilies as time goes on...but not so much that they mess it all up early on. I think discipline...and a knowledge that the discipline is there...is also important.

In year9 science, I actually had a Christian teacher & he gave both sides of the existance of the world and how it came about...clearly stating that he believed creation to be the truth...and that evolution was only a theory and people should decide for themselves what they believed. In year 11 however, our teacher gave a lot of detail on the big bang, and then at the end just went "Oh...and by way of rules...I have to also tell you that some people believe that a superior being created the world...and now onto the work".

 

[Pogue]

I found that in secondary school especially, we wasted a lot of time. In RE and history we mainly watched films, and in retrospect the time could have been better spent doing actual work.
On the other hand though, I think there are far too many tests and exams. From about Year 6 until- well, now, we'd always be thinking about the next exam and it was quite stressful for some students. I think they should do away with SATs altogether, myself.
I was lucky enough to go to a really good Sixth Form- they were much more laid back than my school, and sometimes I even did work because I wanted to, not because I was scared of failing an exam The gap between GCSE and A-levels was quite big, especially for languages, but not so much that it caused major problems.
It annoys me the way people can give up languages so soon- I think it should still be required to GCSE, but that there should be more of a range of languages avaliable (we could only do French or German) More flexibility about what you can study from an earlier age would be good too- that way you'd have more classes of people who want to be there, which makes a big difference.
Anyway, those were a few thoughts I had about it

 

[Judy02]

It annoys me the way people can give up languages so soon- I think it should still be required to GCSE, but that there should be more of a range of languages avaliable (we could only do French or German)

Agreed! A MFL was compulsory at my high school, but with me, I only studied french from year 7 - 9 and was the only option we were given. When asked at the end of yr 9, what language I wanted to do for GCSE, I was left with little choice. French seemed like the only sensible option, considering I had never been taught any other languages before. I would have liked to have been given more options but hey. Only one of life's little annoyances, no massive deal, but I agree

 

[Pogue]

Agreed! A MFL was compulsory at my high school, but with me, I only studied french from year 7 - 9 and was the only option we were given. When asked at the end of yr 9, what language I wanted to do for GCSE, I was left with little choice. French seemed like the only sensible option, considering I had never been taught any other languages before. I would have liked to have been given more options but hey. Only one of life's little annoyances, no massive deal, but I agree

That's true- it means that I'm left doing German at university, and although I like it, I'm not as enthusiastic about it as I'd maybe be about another language, if I'd been given the opportunity to study it at school. I think that's part of the reason why hardly anyone does languages anymore.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I agree about being in sixth form...well, apart from the coursework, revision, general stress, extra responsibility, it's pretty good.

I would've liked to have had a few more options at GCSE...our school didn't really do anything interesting, just the basics.

The top set did French and Spanish together from year 8 til yr 11, and did GCSE in both. That was really good, because I (for some reason ) chose French in year 7 but I'm doing Spanish in sixth form and loathe French with a passion...and can't remember a word from GCSE!

I'm doing the International Baccalaureate...again, don't ask me why! ...instead of A-levels, so I can't really talk about them.

I'd be glad to see some changes in GCSE science to incorporate more about the scientific method and scinetific ways of thinking. But it would be nice if that could be done without shifting the focus away from actual hard scientific knowledge. I didn't realise it was compulsory for teachers to mention religious arguments against evolution and the big bang in science lessons...at least I never noticed it. If that happened now, I would probably get up and leave the classroom.

peace

 

[Da_Funkey_Gibbon]

I like how students are able to specialize pretty early under the British system. I know that for me school got about 10 times more interesting after GCSE when I was able to focus on the subjects that inspired me. Also the whole dynamic of how classes worked changed - more like seminars than classes in most cases. I'm lucky to have a good sixth form at my school.

Ugh... modern languages... I got a "C" in French GCSE... with private coaching. Which I'd worked harder at it now, languages are among the most valuable subjects to have.

 

[Josh3908]

The British System I find is very restrictive, everything is dictated, not to say others arent also. There is also a lack of suitable vocational qualifications for High School students.

Way too much paperwork. Teachers are not trusted to make sound judgements regarding their students and have to produce huge amounts of evidence for everything. Particularly in Physical Ed because Physical Ed does not produce physical results, in other words something you can look at later or pick up and take to another place, so huge amounts of documentaion has to be produced and student/teacher self and pupil assessment all the time.

Incompetent senior teachers who abuse their staff and don't renew your contact despite OFSTED grading your teaching as outstanding. I'm going off track here, I guess you can tell I had a bad day at school.

 

[spoiltbrat2003]

I think they should keep children in until they are at least 18/19
And they should introduce more vocational subjects, get these kids off the streets and into college,
I believe greatly in vocational and career orientated lessons, it gives children something to aspire to,
Also the amount of people I know that have gone to uni and now are unable to hold down a full time job it's just irritating lol!
But in a way its not their fault because they have never had to work.
I worked part time since I was 15 I think its really important to get these kids to grow up
(I'm not saying uni students don't work but I know a few that lived off both loans and mummy and daddys bank balance)

And working in a high school I would never ever consider, Teachers are no longer safe from children
Until the government accepts that and does something about it they are going to struggle to find teachers,

I perosnally find teenagers horrid to work with anyway
I was asked to start a youth group....I just got out of it with a swift no thankyou
I had a colleague who was suspended for "grabbing" a child by the arm, no witnesses...The world is a scary scary place

 

[Judy02]

I had a colleague who was suspended for "grabbing" a child by the arm, no witnesses...The world is a scary scary place

Ok, I don't know the full situation but that is absolutely ridiculous. I don't believe in corporal punishment in schools, but not being able to restrain someone when needed....just stupid.
I used to want to be a teacher...but definetely don't now. A big reason being most of the kids in high school around here seem absolutely horrible. You find them really rude just passing them in a street or shop...so, I really feel for the people who spend at least 6 hours a day, 5 days a week with them! I would actually enjoy the teaching side of it...but we all know, that there's far more to it than that.

I have a friend who's starting a teaching job in Physics in high school, come september. God help him lol. I mean he's thicker skinned than me, and probably deals with stressful situations better than I, but still. Then again, I guess it can partly depend on the school. Schools around here are horrible, but its a fairly rough working class kinda place

He comes from bristol...don't know what it's like down there but saying that, when I met him at uni, he hadn't even heard the term 'scally' before he seemed pretty sheltered lol.

I think there should be more emphasis on vocational courses. And raising the compulsory schooling age might not be a bad idea, although I don't know for certain. You'd hope it'd help some people to be more ambitious in life. It saddens me, to see or hear of people who leave with hardly any qualifications, and get stuck in a dead end, boring job, with little money for the rest of their lives and seem to have little drive and purpose. I mean... what's so great about that

 

[spoiltbrat2003]

Thats true, however I wasn't keen on school. Having said that giving me an alternative vocational options I would have probably gone for

 

[squeak]

I like how students are able to specialize pretty early under the British system. I know that for me school got about 10 times more interesting after GCSE when I was able to focus on the subjects that inspired me. Also the whole dynamic of how classes worked changed - more like seminars than classes in most cases. I'm lucky to have a good sixth form at my school.

Ugh... modern languages... I got a "C" in French GCSE... with private coaching. Which I'd worked harder at it now, languages are among the most valuable subjects to have.

Yea...I like the chance to be more specialized on specific subjects too... It helps a lot...and has given me better ideas of what I'd like to do later in the future. I'd actually say that our 6th form is way better than the rest of the school...there's a much bigger focus on extra-curric activities and a chance to develop as a person...rather than just a pupil.

I have a friend currently at uni...and he loves how he can specialise on just history, and history alone. That's something I really look forward to about history, being able to focus on something I really want to do, as well as being yet more responsible for my life...decisions...up-keep...etc...

 

[squeak]

I think they should keep children in until they are at least 18/19
And they should introduce more vocational subjects, get these kids off the streets and into college,
I believe greatly in vocational and career orientated lessons, it gives children something to aspire to,
Also the amount of people I know that have gone to uni and now are unable to hold down a full time job it's just irritating lol!
But in a way its not their fault because they have never had to work.
I worked part time since I was 15 I think its really important to get these kids to grow up
(I'm not saying uni students don't work but I know a few that lived off both loans and mummy and daddys bank balance)

And working in a high school I would never ever consider, Teachers are no longer safe from children
Until the government accepts that and does something about it they are going to struggle to find teachers,

I perosnally find teenagers horrid to work with anyway
I was asked to start a youth group....I just got out of it with a swift no thankyou
I had a colleague who was suspended for "grabbing" a child by the arm, no witnesses...The world is a scary scary place

I agree with what you're saying I'm currently trying to get myself a part-time job...and start seriously saving for uni... I plan on taking a gap year, during which, in between doing some mission related things, I plan on working to save further money. It bugs me a little when I hear people coming out with "I don't need to worry about uni...mum & dad..."...but if that's the way they want to go about it...fine by me lol.

Ahh diversity...I think it's pretty amazing how different people enjoy working with groups of different ages etc...good job too considering we have such a diverse range of people in the world! I personally like working with younger teens at youth clubs etc., getting along side them... But I would never consider teaching at a high school...primary school I would though

 

[Judy02]

Thats true, however I wasn't keen on school. Having said that giving me an alternative vocational options I would have probably gone for

Yeah I wasn't always...I started to enjoy school more, after GCSE - when school was no longer compulsory. I.e. I wasn't made to go either legally, or pressured to by my parents. Going was my own choice, I picked my own subjects, and I studied subjects I was interested in. Compulsory maths and physics, I found was quite painful, lol!!

I do think people who don't want to go via the traditional a level - degree route should be given more choice. Realistically, I think most realise now, a degree doesn't guarantee you a great job, and I know a few people who did vocational courses, apprenticeships etc, that are in a fairly decent job, but not loads of qualifications.

My sixth form college truied to pressure their students to apply to university, and you did hear the usual pathetic propaganda. 'Going to uni will give u a much better chance having more money, getting a better job, better lifestyle etc.'

The bottom line really was, the more students they had applying to uni, and going, the better it looked for them, and how they could show that and their league tables off, in our local paper ...that was their main goal, not what was best for each individual.

Thankfully, uni was only my choice lol. I do think there should be more support, help for those struggling, especially with subjects they don't like. Some teachers can have a tendancy to ignore you a bit, if you struggle. I was personally told come the end of year 9 'yeah we don't think you're intelligent enough to go straight onto GCSE's...take foundation GNVQ's instead.'

I basically told them no, and it was my drive and determination to succeed, and partly to prove them wrong that was a big way I got through.

I passed my GCSE's withpretty decent results, (all of them were at least a c) did a levels, did well, in those and went on to study at a respectable university.

Lol, anyway im blabbing. Not saying any of that to brag, because I was by no means 'naturally clever' if you like, but I do think schools should do more to help their students sometimes.

Personally, if I had a child, I would avoid sending them to a state school if I could afford it. At least around here...it might not be the case everywhere else, but around here the standards are not that great

 

[non-religious]

[Judy02]
Personally, if I had a child, I would avoid sending them to a state school if I could afford it. At least around here...it might not be the case everywhere else, but around here the standards are not that great

My wife and I are sending our daughter to a private school starting September. It costs money, but education is an investment that is priceless imo. We knew that we were not going to send her to our local state schools, but we did the open evenings and with my wife being a teacher at a very good school she was able to ask specific questions about grades and results. The headmaster at one of the schools tried to put a positive spin on results, but when you scratched beneath the surface you could see the real results.

I pass one of the schools when I drop my daughter off at school and the uniform is terrible. Girls are wearing make-up, short skirts, bellies hanging out etc... and the boys look a complete mess as well. If a school can't even get their children to wear the correct uniform; what on earth are they like with their approach to teaching those children?

 

[Judy02]

My wife and I are sending our daughter to a private school starting September. It costs money, but education is an investment that is priceless imo. We knew that we were not going to send her to our local state schools, but we did the open evenings and with my wife being a teacher at a very good school she was able to ask specific questions about grades and results. The headmaster at one of the schools tried to put a positive spin on results, but when you scratched beneath the surface you could see the real results.

I pass one of the schools when I drop my daughter off at school and the uniform is terrible. Girls are wearing make-up, short skirts, bellies hanging out etc... and the boys look a complete mess as well. If a school can't even get their children to wear the correct uniform; what on earth are they like with their approach to teaching those children?

I fully agree with you there...even if it does make me sound old, oh well lol.

Yeah my old school sounds like the one you described

Good thing you have a wife, who knows what to ask, and can see beyond the rosey exterior they represent. Lol, open days are nothing like a typical day there.

There were some good teachers in my school, but some terrible, and it was hit and miss whether you had a good teacher or not. If not then, hmm you either faced getting worse grades, and/or you had to work doubly hard in your own spare time, teaching yourself things that should have been done at school. Some of my lessons were quite honestly a waste of time. I've sat through whole hour lessons, with kids running around screaming, jumping over tables, and the teacher totally incapable of having any form of control in the classroom.

I mean ok, everyone's gota have some fun in school, not saying it's all work and no play, but when this happens in every single lesson, you learn pretty much nothing every weekand you're in your final year, preparing for GCSE's and you actually want to pass, it can get a tad frustrating

In some subjects, where some teachers were useless,I learnt a lot more reading a textbook, and teaching myself sat at home, than I ever did spending all those hours in school.

There were some good times, but yeah personally I wanted to learn. And I did feel like that place was holding me back, and the teachers had no control or discipline in the classroom so as a result, it meant the people who wanted to be educated...bnasically weren't getting it from there.

I can remember a few times how frustrating that experience was. Especially if I found 1 or 2 subjects difficult, I wasn't receving any teaching or support with it at all.

If I had a kid now, all I know is, I wouldn't want them to go through the same, time wasting and frustrating experience I did. lol. I think it's natural though, to want your child to be given the best chances in life, and opportunities to get to where they want to be. Which is why if I did have them, I'd want to have quite a bit of money, so I could be selective, and give them a better chance of a decent education. (ahhh how right wing do I sound, lol!)

 

[non-religious]

[Judy02]even if it does make me sound old, oh well lol.

Yeah me too....

I have an 11 year old daughter, trust me she makes me feel and sound older than I am. I'm blessed I don't look my age though

open days are nothing like a typical day there.

This is so true. The children picked to stay behind and help with the open evening are usually the best behaved and they present themselves a lot better. Once you get into the school though the facade soon starts to deteriorate and bedlam ensues lol

There were some good teachers in my school, but some terrible, and it was hit and miss whether you had a good teacher or not. If not then, hmm you either faced getting worse grades, and/or you had to work doubly hard in your own spare time, teaching yourself things that should have been done at school. Some of my lessons were quite honestly a waste of time. I've sat through whole hour lessons, with kids running around screaming, jumping over tables, and the teacher totally incapable of having any form of control in the classroom.

This is a serious point you raise here because the teacher you have, especially your form tutor who in most cases you have right through your secondary education, plays such a significant role in your education. Obviously parents have to push their children and encourage them etc...but if you have a lousy teacher who can't communicate well and worst still can't control a class then those who genuingly want to learn can suffer as a direct consequence of poor teaching.

When I was in school we had teachers who we were afraid of. I was a prefect in school (although had the badge taken away from me due to abuse of my position ) and I remember having to make sure my work was completed to a high standard for these teachers because they would scream at us. Now I'm not suggesting we go back to those days of the slipper (which I also got when I was in infant school ) but it seems as though children these days are fearless. Teachers are scared to show authority because they fear violence from either the student or their parent.

If I had a kid now, all I know is, I wouldn't want them to go through the same, time wasting and frustrating experience I did. lol. I think it's natural though, to want your child to be given the best chances in life, and opportunities to get to where they want to be. Which is why if I did have them, I'd want to have quite a bit of money, so I could be selective, and give them a better chance of a decent education. (ahhh how right wing do I sound, lol!)

Right wing...Nah not at all you make perfect sense and I couldn't agree more

 

[RedAndy]

Hey!

Hi.

I was just wondering what everyone here thought of the schooling system we have here in the UK...and the options that are available for education.

I guess you could say I'm at the peak of the education system. I can't really complain about it too much...except for the confusion caused when talking to friends from other countries in Britain

What do you think of the way exams/qualifications are currently organised, and the points at which students can make choices regarding their own education?

I'm currently in my final year of A Levels, and I have to say that the system we have is pretty good. I think that recent proposals to change the GCSE/A Level system - and allow a wider range of subjects to be taken in the Sixth Form - would be a step backwards.

Among my university applications, I've applied to both Queen's University, Belfast and Trinity College, Dublin. In both cases, because the Sixth Form is assessed differently (they take more subjects and do it in less detail) my A Levels are regarded as extremely impressive, and as a result the grades I need for both those universities are much lower than for the English universities I have applied to.

In my opinion, getting people to specialise at an early stage is good - it allows us to cover the subject in much more detail. Universities, I believe, are complaining at the moment about the declining quality of applicants, and it does not make sense to push back the advanced qualifications (i.e. A Levels) to a more basic level.

On the flip side, I think a lot more could be done in the way of vocational qualifications. There is not enough scope in the modern educational system for non-academic careers - although GNVQs, BTECs and other assorted abbreviations do something to bridge that gap, I feel they should be better represented and not be perceived (as they currently are) as a means of non-academic students getting a university place. Higher education should be for academic subjects - I have no problem with getting good qualifications for vocational subjects, but I question whether a university is the right place to do it.

Also, with topics such as science, how do you feel about the teaching of the beginnings of the world?

*sound of can of worms being opened*

Religious viewpoints, such as Creationism, should in my view have no place in the science classroom, or indeed in schools altogether. Education should be secular - Creationism, if it is taught at all, should be taught in religious institutions only to those who wish to study it. (Notice that in Britain evolutionary biology is not taught at an advanced level until A Level, so nobody can claim that evolution is being "forced" onto their children by way of compulsory education).

If this was to work, however, it would have to be emphasised that the scientific worldview is not the be-all and end-all of knowledge, and that science is by no means infallible. That said, evolution is one of the best-supported scientific theories we have - although Big Bang theory is less so, but I don't think that is discussed beyond a very basic level anyway, even in A Level Physics (although I don't study physics so don't take my word for it).