Breaking the Beast

WhoIsLikeGod? · Aug 25, 2023

David Kent said:
But the first Artaxerxes stopped the work that Cyrus authorised until the 2nd year of Darius, then it was finished in the 6th year of Darius, then Artaxerxes authorised Nehemiah to repair the walls.

You didnt answer my other question: Who was Ahasuerus in Ezra 4:6?

Ahasuerus was Darius the Mede's father (Dan. 9:1).

This simplifies it:

Before 539 BC: the enemies of Judah and Benjamin write an accusation against the inhabitants of Judah and Jerusalem (Ezr. 4:6)
539 BC: Cyrus the Great and Darius the Mede receive the kingdom (Ptolemy's Canon of King's; Dan. 5:31); Cyrus's Proclamation (Ezr. 1:1–4)
539–515 BC: the people of the land discourage the people of Judah, and frighten them from building, and bribe advisers against them to frustrate their advice all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius I king of Persia (Ezr. 4:4–5)
520 BC: temple work resumed (Ezr. 5:1–2)
516 BC: temple completed (Ezr. 6:15); the Passover held (Ezr. 6:19–22)
465–458 BC: Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of his colleagues wrote to Artaxerxes king of Persia (Ezr. 4:7–16); Artaxerxes replies and work stops on the city until the second year of the reign of Darius II king of Persia (Ezr. 4:17–24)—"Now issue a decree to make those men stop work, so that this city will not be rebuilt until a decree is issued by me (Ezr. 4:21)."
458 BC: Artaxerxes's decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Ezr. 7:11–26)

There is a difference between the temple being completed and the city being completed.

David Kent · Aug 26, 2023

WhoIsLikeGod? said:
Ahasuerus was Darius the Mede's father (Dan. 9:1).

This simplifies it:

Before 539 BC: the enemies of Judah and Benjamin write an accusation against the inhabitants of Judah and Jerusalem (Ezr. 4:6)
539 BC: Cyrus the Great and Darius the Mede receive the kingdom (Ptolemy's Canon of King's; Dan. 5:31); Cyrus's Proclamation (Ezr. 1:1–4)
539–515 BC: the people of the land discourage the people of Judah, and frighten them from building, and bribe advisers against them to frustrate their advice all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius I king of Persia (Ezr. 4:4–5)
520 BC: temple work resumed (Ezr. 5:1–2)
516 BC: temple completed (Ezr. 6:15); the Passover held (Ezr. 6:19–22)
465–458 BC: Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of his colleagues wrote to Artaxerxes king of Persia (Ezr. 4:7–16); Artaxerxes replies and work stops on the city until the second year of the reign of Darius II king of Persia (Ezr. 4:17–24)—"Now issue a decree to make those men stop work, so that this city will not be rebuilt until a decree is issued by me (Ezr. 4:21)."
458 BC: Artaxerxes's decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Ezr. 7:11–26)

There is a difference between the temple being completed and the city being completed.

No Michael.
Ahasuerus the father of Darius was a Mede and never a king of Persia.
Darius the Mede was the uncle of Cyrus. Mandane daughter of the king of Media was his sister and mother of Cyrus.

Ezra gives 5 kings of Persia
1. Cyrus
2. Ahasuerus
3. Artaxerxes
4.Darius
5. Artaxerxes

History gives 5 kings of Persia
1. Cyrus
2. Cambyses
3. Pseudo Smedes (and various other names)
4. Darius
5. Xerxes
Dan 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
It was Xerxes who stirred up all his realm against Persia.

Who was the Ahasuerus in Esther?

It doesn't matter when the temple or city were completed. It was from when the command went out to build the city and temple that the 70 weeks would begin and that was given by Cyrus.

David Kent · Aug 26, 2023

I just found this which more or less agrees with what I said.

Darius the Mede: A solution to his identity

truthonlybible.com

Here is Martin Ainstey book, well worth checking out.

The romance of Bible chronology by Martin Anstey | Open Library

The romance of Bible chronology by Martin Anstey, 1913, Marshall Bros. edition, in English

openlibrary.org

WhoIsLikeGod? · Aug 26, 2023

David Kent said:
No Michael.
Ahasuerus the father of Darius was a Mede and never a king of Persia.
Darius the Mede was the uncle of Cyrus. Mandane daughter of the king of Media was his sister and mother of Cyrus.

Ezra gives 5 kings of Persia
1. Cyrus
2. Ahasuerus
3. Artaxerxes
4.Darius
5. Artaxerxes

History gives 5 kings of Persia
1. Cyrus
2. Cambyses
3. Pseudo Smedes (and various other names)
4. Darius
5. Xerxes
Dan 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
It was Xerxes who stirred up all his realm against Persia.

Who was the Ahasuerus in Esther?

It doesn't matter when the temple or city were completed. It was from when the command went out to build the city and temple that the 70 weeks would begin and that was given by Cyrus.

Ahasuerus was king of the Median Empire from 585 to 550 BC. But I will concede this: this Ahasuerus (Ezr. 4:6) was most likely Xerxes I. The same Ahasuerus as the one in Esther. It doesn't make any difference. Now that you've finally gotten around to making your point, I will not concede that the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem referred to in Daniel 9 is the decree made by Cyrus. What you are doing is claiming that someone other than Yeshua is the messiah. Yeshua was baptized in AD 26, exactly 483 years after Artaxerxes's decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. 483 years after Cyrus's decree in 539 BC is 56 BC, and no messiah worthy of attention appeared that year.

David Kent · Aug 26, 2023

I am not saying at all that someone other than Jesus is Messiah, but that secular chronology is faulty.

If you don't believe that Cyrus issued God's decree, then you must think that God was not speaking the truth when he said of Cyrus.

Isaiah 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness,
and I will direct all his ways:
he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,
not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah 44:28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd,
and shall perform all my pleasure:
even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built;
and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

I believe scripture chronology rather than "accepted" chronology. Secular chronology is based on Ptolemy's canon, which is not believed by many. Ptolemy was a pagan astrologer, and astronomer. His astronomic theory that the sun went round the earth was proved false after many centuries.
If you were to take the trouble to download, of The Romance of Bible Chronology, or read it online, you will find out about earlier writes than him gave different views.

I believe the the decree to build the temple and city was given by Cyrus at the command of the Lord and that it was 483 years till the baptism of Jesus. The temple was completed in troublous times and completed in the 6th year of Darius. That is about the end of the first seven weeks.

WhoIsLikeGod? · Aug 26, 2023

David Kent said:
I am not saying at all that someone other than Jesus is Messiah, but that secular chronology is faulty.

If you don't believe that Cyrus issued God's decree, then you must think that God was not speaking the truth when he said of Cyrus.

Isaiah 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness,
and I will direct all his ways:
he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,
not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah 44:28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd,
and shall perform all my pleasure:
even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built;
and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

I believe scripture chronology rather than "accepted" chronology. Secular chronology is based on Ptolemy's canon, which is not believed by many. Ptolemy was a pagan astrologer, and astronomer. His astronomic theory that the sun went round the earth was proved false after many centuries.
If you were to take the trouble to download, of The Romance of Bible Chronology, or read it online, you will find out about earlier writes than him gave different views.

I believe the the decree to build the temple and city was given by Cyrus at the command of the Lord and that it was 483 years till the baptism of Jesus. The temple was completed in troublous times and completed in the 6th year of Darius. That is about the end of the first seven weeks.

Maybe you will like this scriptural chronology I made then:

Google Drive: Sign-in

Access Google Drive with a Google account (for personal use) or Google Workspace account (for business use).

drive.google.com

Enjoy

WhoIsLikeGod? · Aug 26, 2023

David Kent said:
I am not saying at all that someone other than Jesus is Messiah, but that secular chronology is faulty.

If you don't believe that Cyrus issued God's decree, then you must think that God was not speaking the truth when he said of Cyrus.

Isaiah 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness,
and I will direct all his ways:
he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,
not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah 44:28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd,
and shall perform all my pleasure:
even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built;
and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

I believe scripture chronology rather than "accepted" chronology. Secular chronology is based on Ptolemy's canon, which is not believed by many. Ptolemy was a pagan astrologer, and astronomer. His astronomic theory that the sun went round the earth was proved false after many centuries.
If you were to take the trouble to download, of The Romance of Bible Chronology, or read it online, you will find out about earlier writes than him gave different views.

I believe the the decree to build the temple and city was given by Cyrus at the command of the Lord and that it was 483 years till the baptism of Jesus. The temple was completed in troublous times and completed in the 6th year of Darius. That is about the end of the first seven weeks.

I believe that Cyrus issued a decree, but so did Artaxerxes, and his lines up with the scriptural chronology.

David Kent · Aug 27, 2023

Scripture chrononology is given here:
Daniel 9 “Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. “Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.

The person who will publish the command is given here:
Isaiah 44:24-27 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself; Who frustrates the signs of the babblers, And drives diviners mad; Who turns wise men backward, And makes their knowledge foolishness; Who confirms the word of His servant, And performs the counsel of His messengers; Who says to Jerusalem, ‘You shall be inhabited,’ To the cities of Judah, ‘You shall be built,’ And I will raise up her waste places; Who says to the deep, ‘Be dry! And I will dry up your rivers’; Who says of Cyrus, ‘He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, “You shall be built,” And to the temple, “Your foundation shall be laid.
Still speaking of Cyrus, he says
Isaiah 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, And I will direct all his ways; He shall build My city And let My exiles go free, Not for price nor reward,” Says the LORD of hosts.

The command was published by Cyrus. That is where the seventy weeks starts, not from the completion but from the original decree. It started immediately after the 70 years was completed.

EZRA 1:1-4 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the LORD God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Who is among you of all His people? May his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel (He is God), which is in Jerusalem. And whoever is left in any place where he dwells, let the men of his place help him with silver and gold, with goods and livestock, besides the freewill offerings for the house of God which is in Jerusalem

David Kent · Aug 27, 2023

WhoIsLikeGod? said:
Maybe you will like this scriptural chronology I made then:

The Biblical Timeline.png

drive.google.com

Enjoy

It looks an impressive chart, but sorry it is not clear enough to read. I take that back I loaded it again into drive instead of Samsung internet. But you are using Ptolemy's Chronology instead of Scripture Chronology.

David Kent · Aug 27, 2023

Ainstey says Ahasuerus in Esther could not be Xerxes because Ahaserus imposed tribute on the islands after his 12th year, but Xerxes lost the islands before his 12th year. It was Darius that captured the islands.

David Kent · Sep 3, 2023

WhoIsLikeGod? said:
Maybe you will like this scriptural chronology I made then:

The Biblical Timeline.png

drive.google.com

Enjoy

Did you delete that? I tried to look at it again, but it said "File does not exist, may have been deleted."

WhoIsLikeGod? · Sep 4, 2023

David Kent said:
Did you delete that? I tried to look at it again, but it said "File does not exist, may have been deleted."

I made some edits to the Judean kings and deleted the old version. Sorry about that. Here is the new version:

Google Drive: Sign-in

Access Google Drive with a Google account (for personal use) or Google Workspace account (for business use).

drive.google.com

David Kent · Sep 4, 2023

Martin Anstey says that there is a complete scripture chronology from Genesis to the Messiah without resorting to secular writers, if you take Cyrus as the deliverer of God's command, but there is a great gap if you take Ptolemy's dates.

The gap is from the ending of the seventieth year and the beginnin0g of the seventy sevens if you take Artaxerxes.

I do disagree with him that the 69 weeks ended at the crucifixion. I believe it is the Baptism of Jesus, when he was recognised as the lamb of God, and announced from heaven.

David Kent · Sep 4, 2023

WhoIsLikeGod? said:
Ahasuerus was Darius the Mede's father (Dan. 9:1).

This simplifies it:

Before 539 BC: the enemies of Judah and Benjamin write an accusation against the inhabitants of Judah and Jerusalem (Ezr. 4:6)
539 BC: Cyrus the Great and Darius the Mede receive the kingdom (Ptolemy's Canon of King's; Dan. 5:31); Cyrus's Proclamation (Ezr. 1:1–4)
539–515 BC: the people of the land discourage the people of Judah, and frighten them from building, and bribe advisers against them to frustrate their advice all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius I king of Persia (Ezr. 4:4–5)
520 BC: temple work resumed (Ezr. 5:1–2)
516 BC: temple completed (Ezr. 6:15); the Passover held (Ezr. 6:19–22)
465–458 BC: Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of his colleagues wrote to Artaxerxes king of Persia (Ezr. 4:7–16); Artaxerxes replies and work stops on the city until the second year of the reign of Darius II king of Persia (Ezr. 4:17–24)—"Now issue a decree to make those men stop work, so that this city will not be rebuilt until a decree is issued by me (Ezr. 4:21)."
458 BC: Artaxerxes's decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Ezr. 7:11–26)

There is a difference between the temple being completed and the city being completed.

Ahasuerus father of Darius was known to history as Astyages. Xenophon, Josephus.
Darius the Mede was kinsman of Cyrus, and had another name to the Greeks. Josephus, The son of Astyages was Cyaxares. Xenophon.
They both say Cyrus put Darius/Cyaxares as king of Babylon. Daniel sort of confirms this:
Daniel 5:30 That very night Belshazzar, king of the Chaldeans, was slain. And Darius the Mede received the kingdom, being about sixty-two years old.

David Kent · Sep 25, 2023

Douggg said:
The person responsible will be the little horn person who goes through five stages on his way to his destruction. He will kill the two witnesses when he is in the beast-king stage.

(1) the little horn, then (2) the prince who shall come, then (3) the Antichrist, then (4) the revealed man of sin,

Douggg, You mix up a number of different t prophecies into one.

the prince who was to come was Titius who destroyed the temple and "ploughed Zion like a field" (Josephus) the abomination, his pagan armies desolate the holy place.

The little horn in Daniel 7 came out of the Roman beast and is the papacy. He rose up at the same time as the 10 kings that succeded the Western Roman empire. He overthrew 3 of these kings, Daniel 7:20 and his mission is to wear down the saints of the most high. The papacy has certainly done that by murdering millions of saints over the centuries, and would do so again if he still had the power, but is now getting his way by infiltration of churches by "churches together."

The little horn of Daniel 8 is Antiochus Ep\iphanes. His mission is to ccast down some of the Jewish leaders, verse10. He

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. 24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand

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