Brain changes...

[GrowingSmaller]

I have the idea that theism alters the way the brain runs. Dramatically. Faith is not an ordinary proposition, you can switch on or off at ease, but demands systemic change in brain runnning dynamics, blood flow, neural connections etc. Which maybe explaings why conversion experiences may be so profound. Its a restrucuring of the whole business model. We're bound to feel like its a whole new world....

 

[The Cadet]

Interesting idea. Got any evidence for the claim?

 

[quatona]

I have the idea that theism alters the way the brain runs. Dramatically. Faith is not an ordinary proposition, you can switch on or off at ease, but demands systemic change in brain runnning dynamics, blood flow, neural connections etc. Which maybe explaings why conversion experiences may be so profound. Its a restrucuring of the whole business model. We're bound to feel like its a whole new world....

Does it require one to have a restructured theist brain for entertaining your idea?

 

[Rajni]

I have the idea that theism alters the way the brain runs. Dramatically. Faith is not an ordinary proposition, you can switch on or off at ease, but demands systemic change in brain runnning dynamics, blood flow, neural connections etc. Which maybe explaings why conversion experiences may be so profound. Its a restrucuring of the whole business model. We're bound to feel like its a whole new world....

I've actually wondered if the opposite is also true; that
one's brain chemistry affects how one goes about
spirituality.

My experience: I sometimes take antidepressants
(the SSRI class), and depending on the dosage, my
spirituality waxes and wanes. If I maintain the regular
dosage, increasing the effects of serotonin in my brain, the
less I feel the need to be hunkered down praying a "hedge
of protection" around myself before I start my day. The
lower my serotonin (I sometimes taper down to give my
system a break from the stuff), the more I've felt the need
to start my day off doing some sort of prayer / meditation
to prepare myself for the day. It's weird.

-

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Interesting idea. Got any evidence for the claim?

None at all. But it seems to explain why changing faith is difficult...

 

[Archaeopteryx]

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Of course religion changes your brain; so does everything else.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

But why is change so difficult, and so profound for some people? Take the supposed case of Paul the Apostle - he hasd a vision and went from persecuting Christians directly to subverting the religion entirely. But seriously, there are systems involving "sense of other" that sem to be used by theists, in sensing "the other" God, which atheists just use for normal social perception.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

But why is change so difficult, and so profound for some people? Take the supposed case of Paul the Apostle - he hasd a vision and went from persecuting Christians directly to subverting the religion entirely. But seriously, there are systems involving "sense of other" that sem to be used by theists, in sensing "the other" God, which atheists just use for normal social perception.

This might be of interest:

The Cognitive Science of Religion

Here is a summary:

Rather than being an adaptation; most cognitive scientists prefer to describe religion as a byproduct of the evolution of several cognitive mechanisms. These include a HADD, an intrigue for MCI objects, a theory of mind, a distaste for uncertainty and anxiety, a fear of death, a propensity for ritual behavior, a use for moral and pro-social behavior, and a need to form cooperative groups. None of these cognitive biases and motivations require religious ideas, but each has found a place for them.

The mechanisms listed above have proper functions, such as detecting danger or understanding the intentions of other minds, but they've been co-opted or `hijacked' by the super-stimuli that copiously appear in religious narratives (gods and spirits). Whether this hijacking was driven by selection pressures, human motivation, or a cultural happenstance is unclear. At the very least, the evidence suggests that religion has come to fulfill a social and palliative role. For this reason, we could describe religion as an exaptation, because the cognitive mechanisms that define it appear to have acquired an additional, adaptive role to that which they were originally selected for.

 

[quatona]

But why is change so difficult, and so profound for some people?

Every change of our basic beliefs and convictions is difficult - after all, these beliefs were basic, and a change wil affect all our other ideas and considerations.

Take the supposed case of Paul the Apostle - he hasd a vision and went from persecuting Christians directly to subverting the religion entirely.

He was a zealot before, and he was a zealot after.

 

[2404]

I have the idea that theism alters the way the brain runs. Dramatically. Faith is not an ordinary proposition, you can switch on or off at ease, but demands systemic change in brain runnning dynamics, blood flow, neural connections etc. Which maybe explaings why conversion experiences may be so profound. Its a restrucuring of the whole business model. We're bound to feel like its a whole new world....

My understanding.
We are soul body and spirit.
The body is only a channel for spirit expression.
The channel might be limited but that does not accurately reflect the spirit.
A touch from the Holy Spirit would then change the dynamic channeling through the body.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I have the idea that theism alters the way the brain runs. Dramatically. Faith is not an ordinary proposition, you can switch on or off at ease, but demands systemic change in brain runnning dynamics, blood flow, neural connections etc. Which maybe explaings why conversion experiences may be so profound. Its a restrucuring of the whole business model. We're bound to feel like its a whole new world....

It's more profound the more faith you have...because it removes doubt and ambiguity from life. Things become black and white to the literalist/fundamentalist. I imagine it is a profound feeling...your life overflowing with imagined purpose, your judgement of everyone and everything becoming clear through the lens of scripture. You no longer have to decide for yourself, or rather, you decide that your choices are guided by an eternal goodness.

I would suppose that if there were any brain changes associated with strong faith...they probably aren't what you'd expect.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Interesting idea. Got any evidence for the claim?

I'm guessing he means in a way similar to how depression can ravage the body and how a placebo effect can heal it; a religion may indeed affect someone's health.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Imagine a child finding that father who they've been missing all their lives and finds him lacking in nothing except scorn.. Imagine the first hug in that scenario and then try to determine what changes are going on in the brain, if you must.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

But why is change so difficult, and so profound for some people? Take the supposed case of Paul the Apostle - he hasd a vision and went from persecuting Christians directly to subverting the religion entirely. But seriously, there are systems involving "sense of other" that sem to be used by theists, in sensing "the other" God, which atheists just use for normal social perception.

Paul was a driven man. He was driven to stamp out what he thought was against God, but learned he was himself working against God. He never stopped being a driven person. He just changed directions after he found out he was in error.

He, in his mind never left serving God. He just didn't realize that God had changed the rules and Christianity was that rule.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

My understanding.
We are soul body and spirit.
The body is only a channel for spirit expression.
The channel might be limited but that does not accurately reflect the spirit.
A touch from the Holy Spirit would then change the dynamic channeling through the body.

Thats how I see it, in a way... "top down causation" they'd call it in science. Any takers?

 

[2404]

I'm with you on that.
Consider:
When Lucifer was affiliated with the Eternal One he was in a condition of perfection, nothing lacking. When he make the break he didn't lose all his abilities for God being omnipotent and omniscient doesn't give something that He has to retract but instead Satan found himself in a condition of uncertainty and unknowns, hence his kingdom is plagued with unknowns, the antithesis of faith.

Cain's people were great men builders and artisans were Seth's people were humble calling on the name of the Lord.

Science is wonderful but temporal for there will come a time when the Sons of God will slip back into eternity.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I love science but the issue is cartesian spirit, lets scrap civilisation and start afresh. Its lucky we have some independent spirited thinkers, and institutions with a will to survive.

 

[bhsmte]

None at all. But it seems to explain why changing faith is difficult...

Changing beliefs can be difficult, because some beliefs are important to our individual psyche. If they are threatened, they will typically be protected with defense mechanisms, to ward off cognitive dissonance.

Read up on "psychology of belief" and it is easy to understand, why some folks believe what they do.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Yeh but who defined the context of defense. A theist or an atheist. but thanks for the tip on "psychology of belief"..