Bowling for Columbine

Pete Harcoff · Feb 18, 2003

Today at 06:33 PM kitkatsnarepadpen said this in Post #20 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=661343#post661343)

so are you saying that if we take away guns people will just stop killing each other? yeah that should work.

Guns do make it easier to kill someone, however. And it's a lot harder to defend against, too.

caley · Feb 18, 2003

21st December 2002 at 12:37 AM Baylor_SFL said this in Post #15

I agree.

That's one of the points that Moore made in his documentary. He brought up many different historical events-- such as massacres in Europe, as well as other incidents like the types of things that Hitler did. Humans have a basically sinful nature-- so why do we do these things? His main point, though, was why does America have the highest amount of deaths by gun shootings (which was a whopping 11,000 +) ... way more than other countries.

~ Kristin

Now, I tend to not trust statistics very much because they are too easy to pad.  I read a statistic about accidental shootings in the home in households that owned guns which seemed ridiculously high at one point, then I read somewhere that the statistic included all suicides and suicide attempts as "accidental shootings."  Perfect example of people trying to pad statistics for their own political purposes.  I assume something similar is going on with this statistic here.  Certainly suicide is a horrible thing, but it says nothing about the "destructive gun culture," because there are many quick, easy ways to commit suicide.  If people didn't have guns, they'd be trying something else.  I try to shy from statistics in any argument and make my case on a logical/philosophical basis.

Interesting that he mentions Hitler during a movie advocating gun control, as Hitler was one of history's most notorious gun controllers.

caley · Feb 18, 2003

Today at 07:40 PM Pete Harcoff said this in Post #21

Guns do make it easier to kill someone, however. And it's a lot harder to defend against, too.

Not if you have a gun yourself.

Pete Harcoff · Feb 18, 2003

Today at 08:49 PM caley said this in Post #23 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=661624#post661624)

Not if you have a gun yourself.

That seems to be the point of some pro-gun lobbyists. Turn the whole idea of gun ownership into an arms race.

Thanks, but I feel much safer knowing I nor anyone close to me owns a firearm.

caley · Feb 18, 2003

Today at 07:55 PM Pete Harcoff said this in Post #24

That seems to be the point of some pro-gun lobbyists. Turn the whole idea of gun ownership into an arms race.

Thanks, but I feel much safer knowing I nor anyone close to me owns a firearm.

It's not an arms race, it's just taking necessary steps to protect yourself.  The pro-gun lobby is not asking people to build an arsenal in their basement.  They are just claiming that the government has no right to limit their right to self-defense.

btw, there is no possible way you can know that no one near you owns a firearem.  even if they are illegal.

Pete Harcoff · Feb 18, 2003

Today at 08:58 PM caley said this in Post #25 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=661647#post661647)

It's not an arms race, it's just taking necessary steps to protect yourself.  The pro-gun lobby is not asking people to build an arsenal in their basement.  They are just claiming that the government has no right to limit their right to self-defense.

But what am I protecting myself from? Last time a gun debate came 'round, I checked up on statistics on the city I live. Of the major 25 Canadian cities surveyed, Ottawa has one of the lowest murder and burglary rates.

And, ironically enough, we were almost burgled, but my roommate's two dogs deterred the burglar from breaking in (and alerted my roommate in the process).

So, I just don't see the need to arm myself.

btw, there is no possible way you can know that no one near you owns a firearem.  even if they are illegal.

By "close to me", I meant friends, family, and my immediate neighbor.

Red Panda · Feb 18, 2003

20th December 2002 at 07:26 PM Pete Harcoff said this in Post #9

One thing I found interesting about the "fear" part, was the topic of media coverage. I actually found some stats comparing Canadian and U.S. media coverage, here (1997). It's kind of interesting that "chaos" news (disasters, crime, and so forth)accounts for about 40% of U.S. news versus only 22% in Canada. Amazing what the media can do to your perception of where you live.

I attribute this to a couple of things:

1.  Generally, Americans are not as well-informed as Canadians or Europeans, about world affairs, economics, science, etc.  So the US media "plays down" to the lowest common denominator; and

2.  Pushing chaos, tragedy and exciting bad news (for lack of a better term) is what you get when you make the news a commodity in a capitalist society.  Capitalism, via its marketing emphasis, encourages exaggeration, whether the product is soap, corn flakes, or the daily news.  That's why I prefer PBS or the BBC, for higher-quality news.

Evangelion · Feb 18, 2003

Panda - your profile says "West Virginia." Are you sure that's correct?

It's just that when I read stuff like this...

I attribute this to a couple of things:

1. Generally, Americans are not as well-informed as Canadians or Europeans, about world affairs, economics, science, etc. So the US media "plays down" to the lowest common denominator; and

2. Pushing chaos, tragedy and exciting bad news (for lack of a better term) is what you get when you make the news a commodity in a capitalist society. Capitalism, via its marketing emphasis, encourages exaggeration, whether the product is soap, corn flakes, or the daily news. That's why I prefer PBS or the BBC, for higher-quality news.

...it astonishes and delights me.

You're almost too reasonable to be true.

Red Panda · Feb 19, 2003

Today at 09:59 PM Evangelion said this in Post #28

Panda - your profile says "West Virginia." Are you sure that's correct?

It's just that when I read stuff like this...

...it astonishes and delights me.

You're almost too reasonable to be true.

Not everyone from West Virginia is a hillbilly.   Besides, that's my ancestral roots.  I don't live there anymore - no jobs back home. :-(

Morat · Feb 19, 2003

Carrying a gun doesn't protect you from other people with guns, unless you chose to carry it around in your hand, not a holster.

You can't outdraw a bullet, after all. Given that virtually every time you'll need a gun, because someone with a gun is threatening or attacking you, you're going to be caught with your gun in your holster, and your attacker will have his out.

Which makes your gun about as useful as a bucket of warm spit.

Now, if you're planning on attacking someone....

Home defense is a bit different, but a good dog will keep you much safer, and you don't have to worry about little Billy getting at your piece.

two feathers · Mar 17, 2003

Bowling for Columbine

...a brilliant film. One that will always draw scepticism from those who are afraid of the truth.

Long live Michael Moore (a revolutionary in his own right)!

Bowling for Columbine

Pete Harcoff

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caley

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