Bottomless Pit

ewq1938 · Nov 3, 2019

Sam91 said:
Yh, I don't think time as we know it will apply anymore. I think Heaven is outside of time. After all, it existed before creation.

No, it was created just like the Earth was.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

ewq1938 · Nov 3, 2019

JM said:
In eternity there is no such thing as "time."

Except when the tree of life produces fruit each month....MONTH

There is time in the eternity, it just will never stop.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

ewq1938 · Nov 3, 2019

sdowney717 said:
So heaven is no longer in hell.

Heaven was never in hell. There is a great gulf inbetween them. Why would God live in hell? It makes no sense to believe in such nonsense.

JM · Nov 3, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Except when the tree of life produces fruit each month....MONTH

There is time in the eternity, it just will never stop.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

That's an overly literal, literalistic, understanding of a spiritual truth presented in symbol.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

ewq1938 · Nov 3, 2019

JM said:
That's an overly literal, literalistic, understanding of a spiritual truth presented in symbol.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

It's not overly anything. It's plainly written scripture about never ending time counted in months. Eternity is an eternity of time.

Sam91 · Nov 4, 2019

ewq1938 said:
No, it was created just like the Earth was.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Wow, in 36 years I have heard that translation of the bible. Others says 'heavens', I've never connected it with Heaven though. Will have to look into it.

ewq1938 · Nov 4, 2019

Sam91 said:
Wow, in 36 years I have heard that translation of the bible. Others says 'heavens', I've never connected it with Heaven though. Will have to look into it.

Rev_10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Sam91 · Nov 4, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Rev_10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

I am not disputing that heaven was created. I just thought it predated Earth. Most Bible translations say 'Heavens'. In Genesis 1:1 so I assumed it meant the universe, not Heaven. Will be back after my day. I leave the house in 20 minutes.

ewq1938 · Nov 4, 2019

Sam91 said:
I am not disputing that heaven was created. I just thought it predated Earth.

I don't think there is anything that will show heaven existed before the Earth.

Most Bible translations say 'Heavens'. In Genesis 1:1 so I assumed it meant the universe, not Heaven.

There are three heavens, so creating the heavens plural could easily refer to all three. Plus, the one in Rev is in the singular not plural so that adds to the whole thing.

sdowney717 · Nov 4, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Heaven was never in hell. There is a great gulf inbetween them. Why would God live in hell? It makes no sense to believe in such nonsense.

Mistyped, meant to say Paradise is no longer in Hell.
Makes perfect sense to me, and many people believe what I said. Very much like the video that was posted in this thread.

When Christ tells the thief TODAY you will be with ME in PARADISE, where did they go? Where was Paradise? What was Paradise? It was not Heaven, it was Abaraham's bosom, and each side could see the other side across a vast gulf. Paradise was in hell, but not in hellfire.

ewq1938 · Nov 4, 2019

sdowney717 said:
Mistyped, meant to say Paradise is no longer in Hell.

My response is the same. Paradise was never in hell.

sdowney717 · Nov 4, 2019

ewq1938 said:
My response is the same. Paradise was never in hell.

So where do you say it was? It cant be heaven, cause of what Christ tells the thief, and Christ did not ascend to heaven on the day He died.

ewq1938 · Nov 4, 2019

sdowney717 said:
So where do you say it was?

It was always far away with a great gulf inbetween as Christ explained. Hell (Hades) and Heaven or Paradise have always been separate places. There is ZERO justification for thinking they were ever the same place.

sdowney717 · Nov 4, 2019

ewq1938 said:
It was always far away with a great gulf inbetween as Christ explained. Hell (Hades) and Heaven or Paradise have always been separate places. There is ZERO justification for thinking they were ever the same place.

Hell is divided at that time into several parts.
The problem with your thinking is in scripture there is only 3 basic places.
Heaven, the earth, and hell - sheol, the temporary holding place of the dead. There is no 4th distinct major place.

sdowney717 · Nov 4, 2019

These are the three places where angels, demons and God can be.

Philippians 2:9-11 New King James Version (NKJV)

9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, (hell)

11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

sdowney717 · Nov 4, 2019

More proof there is no separate distinct place from hell for Paradise, Christ descends into the lower parts of the earth, which is hell, those under the earth... that He might fill all things... no mention of Paradise, as Paradise at the time was in hell.

7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”

9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [d]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

And since Christ says no one has ascended into Heaven but Himself, then Paradise cant be in heaven before Christ ascended as the dead thief on the cross went there with Him, after the resurrection He took Paradise and everyone in Paradise into heaven. I believe Paradise was Eden or something like it.

ewq1938 · Nov 4, 2019

sdowney717 said:
Hell is divided at that time into several parts.
The problem with your thinking is in scripture there is only 3 basic places.

No, the only problem here is thinking heaven was ever in hell.

sdowney717 · Nov 4, 2019

ewq1938 said:
No, the only problem here is thinking heaven was ever in hell.

Paradise was never Heaven. But Paradise is found in Heaven later on after Christ ascended as Paul went there being caught up into Paradise.
No one comes to the Father except through Christ, even literally, the Old Testaments dead saints had to go somewhere, and they left the earth and could not go to heaven when they died, or else Jesus lied, they went to the same place Christ did when He died did which was HADES.
Proof Christ went to Hades is in at least 2 places in scripture, here is one.

22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:

‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’

PizzaAddict · Nov 4, 2019

JM said:
I never really thought about this topic until I seen this video.

What do you think?

Most of it is misleading

sdowney717 · Nov 4, 2019

Here is more proof that the old testament dead saints did not go to heaven until Christ was resurrected.

Hebrews 11 speaks of the OT faithful dead. They were not to be perfected apart from us. None of them received the promise of eternal life with God apart from Christ. But they did receive that promise of God after Christ ascended and led the captivity captive (those in paradise in hades) into heaven to live with God and Christ forever.

39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

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