Boston Explosions.

SepiaAndDust said:

That's not justice. Justice is the rule of law.

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But when the law fails, and criminals walk, what then? There IS no justice?
Justice is retribution against a criminal, as punishment for her/his crime.

Belk said:

No, that would be vengeance and blood lust.

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No, that would be justice. At least if the state is unwilling to bring justice.

ChristOurCaptain said:

But when the law fails, and criminals walk, what then? There IS no justice?
Justice is retribution against a criminal, as punishment for her/his crime.

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Is there not something in the bible about who owns vengeance?

ChristOurCaptain said:

No, that would be justice. At least if the state is unwilling to bring justice.

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I have yet to hear of an angry mob dispensing justice. I have only heard of vengeance and travesty.

ChristOurCaptain said:

But when the law fails, and criminals walk, what then? There IS no justice?
Justice is retribution against a criminal, as punishment for her/his crime.

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Are you above the law? No? Then who are you to decide who is guilty and deserves punishment?

If our 200-plus-year-old justice system cannot determine someone's guilt, then you certainly cannot.

Belk said:

Is there not something in the bible about who owns vengeance?

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Yes, which is one of the reasons why I don't go out and murder those I don't like, even if it would benefit me.
There is lots, also, about judging rightly, not letting criminals get away with their crimes.

Belk said:

I have yet to hear of an angry mob dispensing justice. I have only heard of vengeance and travesty.

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A murderer/pedophile/rapist/etc is proven guilty, but gets released on a technicality. Perhaps the judge just kinda felt in a good mood, or is an old friend of the criminal's parents, etc. For whatever reason, she/he gets away with the crime.
That is not justice. And it would be just if a kind-hearted person would then make sure that justice was served, even if the judge apparently wanted the murderer/pedophile/rapist to walk free. There's quite a bit in the Bible about unjust judges, too.

SepiaAndDust said:

Are you above the law? No? Then who are you to decide who is guilty and deserves punishment?

If our 200-plus-year-old justice system cannot determine someone's guilt, then you certainly cannot.

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See the example above.

ChristOurCaptain said:

Yes, which is one of the reasons why I don't go out and murder those I don't like, even if it would benefit me.
There is lots, also, about judging rightly, not letting criminals get away with their crimes.



A murderer/pedophile/rapist/etc is proven guilty, but gets released on a technicality. Perhaps the judge just kinda felt in a good mood, or is an old friend of the criminal's parents, etc. For whatever reason, she/he gets away with the crime.
That is not justice. And it would be just if a kind-hearted person would then make sure that justice was served, even if the judge apparently wanted the murderer/pedophile/rapist to walk free. There's quite a bit in the Bible about unjust judges, too.



See the example above.

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And so you believe in these cases people should take the law into their own hands? You believe this is a wise course of action?

ChristOurCaptain said:

A murderer/pedophile/rapist/etc is proven guilty, but gets released on a technicality. Perhaps the judge just kinda felt in a good mood, or is an old friend of the criminal's parents, etc.

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You have cites for that actually happening?

Belk said:

And so you believe in these cases people should take the law into their own hands? You believe this is a wise course of action?

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Fiat iustitia. If the state will not honor its very reason to exist, then justice must still be served.

SepiaAndDust said:

You have cites for that actually happening?

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So, you doubt that some people who have been proven guilty, get to walk with technicalities as excuses?

Why would God be interested in meting out such temporary justice, when there's already the eternal justice of hell? (Although, if they repent of their psychopathic and anti-social behavior, and ask for Jesus' forgiveness, they'll be alright in the afterlife.) As if eternal, never-ending torture isn't enough to satisfy this entity, He lashes out at people while they're alive, in this brief, momentary blip. It's like he can't wait for the "justice" to begin, even for a short nanosecond. It boggles the mind that many people claim that God is love, and at the same time, can fully justify such cruel and unusual thinking.

It seems as though folks here have the culprits tried and executed, and are casting lots for the remains. Nobody seems to be sure, at the moment, whether the police even have a suspect in custody.

From photos I've seen it looks as though two men were involved, both of medium height (I'm 6'6". Everyone else looks "medium" to me). One was of Arabian appearance, in his early 20s. The other was European-looking, with sandy hair and bald on top. He may have been 30-ish, I don't know (All white guys look the same to me). They were dressed in uniforms, impersonating security personnel, toted heavy backpacks and were seen together talking on cellphones -- which tips me off that others were likely involved.

In short, you can rule out a "crazy", homespun fanatic. These men had a coordinated plan, with much preparation (hence identical uniforms). The bombs, also, used different shrapnel from each other, indicating that they may have been assembled at different locations. The design is that recommended by Al Qaeda of Yemen for "lone wolf" bombers.

I suspect that the bombers were a Yemeni or Saudi, or suchlike, and an American accomplice. The European-looking guy seems to have dropped his bomb off first, because he had the pack in his hand while the other bomber still had his on his back. A man resembling the Arab-looking suspect was seen possibly pushing a button on a cellphone when one of the bombs went off. At that time, another man, possibly the accomplice, was in his line of sight on a rooftop. He may have been a spotter, going to the roof after dropping off his bag and signalling the accomplice that the bombs were still in place and secure.

ChristOurCaptain said:

So, you doubt that some people who have been proven guilty, get to walk with technicalities as excuses?

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Once again, I'll ask you for a cite.

ChristOurCaptain said:

Fiat iustitia. If the state will not honor its very reason to exist, then justice must still be served.

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But the state has honored it's reason to exist. You seem to imply that when people feel the outcome is not what they feel is right they should resort to vigilantism.

Belk said:

But the state has honored it's reason to exist. You seem to imply that when people feel the outcome is not what they feel is right they should resort to vigilantism.

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No; when the criminal has been proven guilty, but the judge throws the evidence out the window (taking care not to hit his/her new Lamborghini that the criminal's parents just accidentally decided to give them) and, like some satanic magician, suddenly makes the case disappear, then society has failed its reason to exist.

And justice will need to find some other way of being done.

When the society breaks down, which it will, then what so you to justice?

ChristOurCaptain said:

No; when the criminal has been proven guilty, but the judge throws the evidence out the window (taking care not to hit his/her new Lamborghini that the criminal's parents just accidentally decided to give them) and, like some satanic magician, suddenly makes the case disappear, then society has failed its reason to exist.

And justice will need to find some other way of being done.

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Ah! So it would only be vigilantism that you feel is appropriate. In very specific circumstances were you feel guilt has been determined but because of some flaw in how our legal code works we should then abandon the rule of law to be sure "justice" is administered.

Belk said:

Ah! So it would only be vigilantism that you feel is appropriate. In very specific circumstances were you feel guilt has been determined but because of some flaw in how our legal code works we should then abandon the rule of law to be sure "justice" is administered.

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Criminals getting away with their crimes, isn't justice. And if society won't make sure justice is done, then some philanthropist should.

Can I pull you folks apart for a minute?

It's WAY too early, to be talking about "vengeance" and "justice". Let's wait, at least, until someone gets arraigned. In the meantime, there are three families mourning their dead and dozens of people with serious injuries to deal with, some of which they will bear for the rest of their lives.

I think the following would be nice things to know right now:

1. Who are the suspects? What do they look and sound like? Are some of them still on the loose? Where?

2. Why did they do this? This was not a "crazy" attack. It was coordinated and well-planned, and probably involved outside accomplices. It was designed, until we find out otherwise, to make a statement. Like 9/11, it had a lot of symbolism: An attack where the US War of Independence began, on Patriot day. Like 9/11, it attacked a symbol of our strength, namely, the young and strong runners in the race.

It may have been coordinated with the other Al Qaeda-suspect attacks that immediately followed it in Kirkuk, Eilat and Bangalore. It may be a show of strength by Al Qaeda, after the loss of bin Laden, their "payback". I don't know exactly why they did it; but it seems to have taken months of preparation, so the reason lies back before then. Revenge for bin Laden would be a good guess.

Meanwhile, please note the following:

China reacts to student's death at Boston Marathon
Ben Carlson and Allison JacksonApril 16, 2013 21:34

"...It was perhaps this sense of connection between the countries that led many Chinese to express sympathy after the Boston blasts, even before the victim's Chinese nationality was revealed. This stands in marked contrast to the ambivalent, if not gloating, response in China after the 9/11 attacks.


"Author Zuojiacaojunshi expressed it well:


"'When 9-11 occurred, many Chinese hailed at it,' he wrote on Weibo, as translated by China Daily.


"'But after the Boston blasts yesterday, barely cheers but condolences, denouncement, and concern were spread on the Internet. With the development of the Internet in the past 11 years, especially the popularization of Weibo, many Chinese have changed their thinking and world outlook'..."

-- China reacts to student's death at Boston Marathon | GlobalPost

That's GOOD news in all this. My daughter was in China, teaching English, during the 9/11 attack. When the students saw the plane crashing into the building, they all cheered. Then they saw their teacher in tears, and realized that there were human beings in those buildings. That was good. This time around, most Chinese didn't cheer, but felt compassion.

ChristOurCaptain said:

Criminals getting away with their crimes, isn't justice. And if society won't make sure justice is done, then some philanthropist should.

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Citely Cite Cite Cite for criminals getting away with their crimes, please.

ChristOurCaptain said:

Criminals getting away with their crimes, isn't justice. And if society won't make sure justice is done, then some philanthropist should.

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That is not philanthropy, it vigilantism. We should not have frontier justice simply because you do not like it when someone you have deemed guilty does not get punished. That is claiming that you should have the right to administer justice as you see fit. There is a reason why it is illegal and prosecuted very seriously.