Born Again?

extreme_zeal777 said:

@Cearbhall
Born Again merely bounces off of the term born in sin.
If we are born into sin, then the solution is to be born again, transforming onesself from a sinful nature into a Godly nature by the power of the holy spirit.

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Perhaps that explains why the term isn't used in Catholicism. Infant Baptism achieves this.

extreme_zeal777 said:

I never really understood infant baptism, sure it looks cute, and seems as if it is the wise thing to do, seeing as we were born into sin, therefore baptizing an infant immediately reconciles them back unto God.

But true baptism regards a renewal of the mind, a development of a Godly nature.
One has to be consciously aware, only in order to be able to make the choice to develop a Godly character, an infant is not necessarily consciously mature to make decisions therefore, all that is taking place is just merely a ritual.
Baptism has to begin from within a person, there must first be a choice to be reborn into God's spirit for the process to have any affect.☺

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This is pretty much the mindset I grew up around. My father purposely made sure I was never baptized as an infant, he wanted me to make the choice when I was old enough to be aware of what I was doing. Although if I chose to never be baptized, that was cool too. It wasn't essential to be saved or anything. Baptism was pretty much a public confirmation to the community that you were ready to take your faith seriously. People were often baptized multiple times in their life if they saw it fit.

Despite being a Christian until I was around 17, I have never been baptized. I loathed the Church communities I grew up around so much that I could not stomach the thought of being baptized around them.

extreme_zeal777 said:

@Cearbhall
Born Again merely bounces off of the term born in sin.
If we are born into sin, then the solution is to be born again, transforming onesself from a sinful nature into a Godly nature by the power of the holy spirit.

Click to expand...

extreme_zeal777 said:

@Cearbhall
Born Again merely bounces off of the term born in sin.
If we are born into sin, then the solution is to be born again, transforming onesself from a sinful nature into a Godly nature by the power of the holy spirit.

Click to expand...

I totally reject the born in sin image as well as the judgmental God that goes along with it. The bigger picture, in my estimation, has to do with consciousness and any transformation to be done is an evolutionary step of where the unfoldment of consciousness takes us as it evolves. So for myself, when I look from the perspective of the creative process of life and what I see around us, your "Born Again" analysis makes no sense to me.

Cearbhall said:

I think the first time I heard of this term was when Hannah Montana started and an article about Billy Ray's career said that he was a "born-again Christian." I had to look it up online because I didn't have the foggiest idea of what it was implying. I still don't know exactly what it means.

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In contemporary (and most primarily in America) parlance "born again Christian" basically just means "Evangelical". It's often said that the term "born again Christian" didn't really enter into the mainstream American vocabulary until Jimmy Carter's running for president of the US as he identified himself as a "born again Christian" (Carter at the time was Southern Baptist, he's still Baptist but is no longer SBC). The language itself is a product of the Neo-Evangelical tradition in America which began in the 1930's and 40's. The Neo-Evangelical tradition has, since, been exported to other parts of the world and so one can find "born again Christian" outside of America, but it's because of the influence of American Neo-Evangelical teachers and missionaries; since American-style Evangelicalism has been exported to Europe, Africa, Asia, South America, etc.

Outside of Neo-Evangelicalism the the emphasis on being "born again" doesn't exist in the older, historical Churches because the concept of the new birth is understood very differently--it's Baptism. That older understanding is the historic view of the Christian Church as can be seen in the writings of the ancient fathers. The phrase "born again" (or "born from above") is taken from the 3rd chapter of John's Gospel where a Pharisee, Nicodemus comes to Jesus to talk, Jesus tells him one must be "born again" to see God's kingdom, when Nicodemus is confused, Jesus clarifies, "one must be born of water and the Spirit"--this has always been understood by Christians to refer to Baptism. The traditional view became discarded in those churches who embraced a non-sacramental view of Baptism in the post-Reformation era and the concept of being "born again" required a new definition. The new definition grew out of Pietism and later Revivalism where the emphasis became on having a kind of experience, and finally gained its modern meaning in Neo-Evangelicalism which is the modern heir of the earlier American Pietist and Revivalist traditions.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

In contemporary (and most primarily in America) parlance "born again Christian" basically just means "Evangelical". It's often said that the term "born again Christian" didn't really enter into the mainstream American vocabulary until Jimmy Carter's running for president of the US as he identified himself as a "born again Christian" (Carter at the time was Southern Baptist, he's still Baptist but is no longer SBC). The language itself is a product of the Neo-Evangelical tradition in America which began in the 1930's and 40's. [...]

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Thank you for all the information!

Robban said:

Two attempts to respond, both bummers, have no more time to waste.

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"No more time to waste" or no more time to lose,
I had an important errand and I should not have been lingering about,

I did manage to tear myself away however and the errand which I had been
kind of trying to avoid went like a dream, over all expectations.

There are a few references in Baha'i sources where the term "born again" can be found. I'll share a few of them here:

Say: O people! The Tree of Life hath verily been planted in the heart of the heavenly paradise and bestoweth life in every direction. How can ye fail to perceive and recognize it? It will in truth aid thee to grasp all that this well-assured Soul hath disclosed unto thee of the essence of the divine mysteries. The Dove of holiness warbleth in the heaven of immortality and admonisheth thee to array thyself with a new vesture, wrought of steel to shield thee from the shafts of doubt concealed in the allusions of men, saying: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, ye must be born again."

~ Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 51

Jesus Christ said 'Ye must be born again' so that divine Life may spring anew within you. Be kind to all around and serve one another; love to be just and true in all your dealings; pray always and so live your life that sorrow cannot touch you. Look upon the people of your own race and those of other races as members of one organism; sons of the same Father; let it be known by your behaviour that you are indeed the people of God. Then wars and disputes shall cease and over the world will spread the Most Great Peace."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 82

There are no ritual practices of Baptism among Baha'is and no priests.

dfw69 said:

We are not angels or gods now in the flesh but God is Abel to make men as the Angels to live forever and as gods able to empower man through his spirit to perform godly acts ..and is able to create a new creation to become the sons of God ...this is not putting the cart before the horse

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First must come the realization that we are frail human beings,

Can one be born again while still alive?

Maybe, in a sense,
Though may not be realized/happen until we reach the mouth of the grave,

It is possible for the soul to ascend before death, even if just for a brief moment.

For example, Psalms 23,
David was comforted by being given a glimse of the World to come.