Bnp

TheLordReigns · Jun 14, 2007

artybloke said:
The second statement cancels out the first. You cannot be a Christian and a Nazi. Your parents appear to have fought against Nazism in order for their son to grow up into one.

I'm no Nazi, and you don't even know me and yet you hurl insults. It amazes me that people who support parties that promote the mass murder of the unborn, the continued concreting of our greenlands, the unrelenting deconstruction of our Protestant constitution, and the furtherance of an undemocratic federalist nightmare at Brussels, can call me a Nazi.

ScottishJohn · Jun 14, 2007

TheLordReigns said:
I'm no Nazi, and you don't even know me and yet you hurl insults. It amazes me that people who support parties that promote the mass murder of the unborn, the continued concreting of our greenlands, the unrelenting deconstruction of our Protestant constitution, and the furtherance of an undemocratic federalist nightmare at Brussels, can call me a Nazi.

Because all of the things you mention are based on a perspective, but the attitude of the BNP to races other than what they decide is 'British' is there for all to see. The BNP use the same tactic that Hitler used - blame the 'foreigner' for all the evils that your own population are largely responsible for. The BNP have the same misty eyed sentimentality about being something called 'British' which, like 'Aryan', is a fairly artificial construct, being British means that you are a product of millenia of migration and immigration of hundreds of seperate racial groups into these islands. To turn round and suggest that the practise which made us is somehow 'anti British' is just demonstrating their complete ignorance of history.

Before you as a Christian affiliate yourself with this bunch of thugs you should have a good look at what they are actually responsible for, the difference between their public statements and private actions, and their link with combat 18 (further Nazi credentials.)

Iosias · Jun 14, 2007

ScottishJohn said:
blame the 'foreigner' for all the evils that your own population are largely responsible for

It is easily observable that large waves of immigration cause social fragmentation as cultures clash. I would point you to the excellent work of Alasdair MacIntyre and other conservative communitarians such as Charles Taylor.

sebastian · Jun 14, 2007

you can work around culture clashes with a bit of communication and love. am i being a bit simple? no, my church is full of immagrants from all over the world, i love them all. if any get sent home by any ridiculous political view point then this country really will have died it's death and i hope it will sink into the sea and never return.

Iosias · Jun 14, 2007

sebastian said:
you can work around culture clashes with a bit of communication and love.

What happens when they do not wish to live in our culture but develop their own and maintain a separatist attitude? Nay more, what should we do when they wish to replace our culture with their own? This is the issue.

sebastian · Jun 14, 2007

the same with anyone else in this land, if they don't live according to the law then they get punished. the only way to get these people to integrate is to open your arms to them. I know there are problems with certain groups and thats more a matter for the home office and on occasion the police, the thing is any law will throw out a majority of good hard working contributers to our society who are immigrants. they live and work aside the rest of us white people who speak proper and they fit in, but they still remain indian or korean or chinese or east european or african or whatever.

Iosias · Jun 14, 2007

sebastian said:
the same with anyone else in this land, if they don't live according to the law then they get punished.

But they are seeking to change the law to suit themselves. Hence certain Muslims wish to set up their own courts to enforce Sharia law! Should the Government allow them to do so?

There should be a policy of cultural primacy so in the UK, British culture is protected by law. If immigrants wish to change our culture then they should not be allowed to. If they wish to live here in a British culture then they should be allowed to do so.

If you invite me to dinner and after dinner you go to make coffee you are not going to be happy to come back to find me knocking down a wall of your house because I did not like it (and rightly so).

sebastian · Jun 14, 2007

culture evolves that's how it is, you think that England has had no influences? just study our language and you'll see how much foreign influence we have had.
as for the muslims, of course they can't set up thier own courts, as if they have the authority to infringe ours. no it isn;t right but that has nothing to do with the BNP or any other political ideology that states that immigrants are second class citizens.
I knew this would end up with the muslims too, this is all it is about. y'know during the IRA bombings the same was said about the Irish, and they used to get beaten up and blamed for all that was going on. it's not much different with muslims, we have a few nut cases in our country and thats life to be honest. if it isn't muslims it's the irish, or the blacks or the indians and if not them then someone else. we always find someone to hate.

sebastian · Jun 14, 2007

let me add one more thing, if your afraid of our country becoming a muslim nation, then that's the churches fault for being so apathetic towards it's calling. And if now, after all the church has failed to do, you wonder why people are converting to islam, then the church needs to become the body of Christ again and you need to look to God and God only for the preservation of Christianity and for a revival, and not to the government or political groups 'cos all you'll get there is anything but the church.
"to live is Christ, to die is gain."

ScottishJohn · Jun 14, 2007

AV1611 said:
It is easily observable that large waves of immigration cause social fragmentation as cultures clash. I would point you to the excellent work of Alasdair MacIntyre and other conservative communitarians such as Charles Taylor.

I'm not interested.

Cultures clash when small minded people expect people from other countries to abandon their cultures just because they live here, as opposed to enjoying the richness that they bring to our lives.

If you want to see social fragmentation look to the rich Conservative voting gated communities who are sitting waiting to be overrun by immigrants. Community is alive and well and diverse elsewhere.

ScottishJohn · Jun 14, 2007

AV1611 said:
What happens when they do not wish to live in our culture but develop their own and maintain a separatist attitude? Nay more, what should we do when they wish to replace our culture with their own? This is the issue.

It is a non issue. People develop a seperatist attitude when they are held at arms length for long enough. There are no ethnic minorities with a large enough population to replace our 'culture' (which is in fact a collection of practices and customs from around the world.)

ScottishJohn · Jun 14, 2007

AV1611 said:
But they are seeking to change the law to suit themselves. Hence certain Muslims wish to set up their own courts to enforce Sharia law! Should the Government allow them to do so?

No. And they are not allowing them to do so. And there is no Muslim majority to push it through. So once again this is an alarmist non issue.

AV1611 There should be a policy of [I said:
cultural primacy[/I] so in the UK, British culture is protected by law. If immigrants wish to change our culture then they should not be allowed to. If they wish to live here in a British culture then they should be allowed to do so.

No there shouldn't because as soon as a culture is written in stone it dies, because a culture is nothing more or less than a collection of practises amongst a group of people, and therefore it is fluid and it evolves over years. If such a policy had been in place over the last 1500 years, we would not have the British culture you so unnecessarily fret over because we pinched most of it from elsewhere during that period.

AV1611 said:
If you invite me to dinner and after dinner you go to make coffee you are not going to be happy to come back to find me knocking down a wall of your house because I did not like it (and rightly so).

Completely irrelevant.

Britain is not your house.

TemperateSeaIsland · Jun 14, 2007

As ScottishJohn has mentioned culture is a fluid collection of ideas and practices that constantly evolves. From my POV the idea of a British Culture is a myth anyway; can anyone define British culture?

Assyrian · Jun 14, 2007

kebab and chips

TemperateSeaIsland · Jun 14, 2007

Assyrian said:
kebab and chips

mmm, now your just trying to make me hungry.

Well the point I'm making is there is no objective definition of British culture. People can reel off a list that they'll consider part of British culture but it will be completely subjective from their POV and many people will disagree with various things they've listed.

Pogue · Jun 14, 2007

I wish I had some cheesy chips

TemperateSeaIsland · Jun 14, 2007

Pogue said:
I wish I had some cheesy chips

Don't you start! I'm on a diet... Think I'll have to pour another bowl of All Bran.

(Other Fiber rich/low fat cereals are available.)

ScottishJohn · Jun 14, 2007

Assyrian said:
kebab

Turkish (or Greek)

Assyrian said:
and chips

Made with Potatoes from the Americas, and invented in France.

Even fish and chips - fried fish is said to have originated with the Jewish immigrants in the east end of London.

Like I said, pinched from elsewhere - can't get much more British than that!

ScottishJohn · Jun 14, 2007

TemperateSeaIsland said:
From my POV the idea of a British Culture is a myth anyway; can anyone define British culture?

I would agree totally. I think it is almost impossible to define, but those who lament what they see as its passing are clinging to a narrow idea of what the culture was about 40 or 50 years ago. And it happens every generation. I'm sure there were some people who condemned the sinful homoeroticism of Morris dancing when it blew in from the continent.

There are certain mindsets which I think some would claim are peculiar to our culture, like queing, the love of the underdog, love of dogs and animals in general and so on, but I don't think these are particularly unique, or even particulalry evident in British culture.

artybloke · Jun 15, 2007

I'm no Nazi, and you don't even know me and yet you hurl insults.

Then why are you thinking of voting for a Nazi party?

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