Bnp

[JRW1989]

Hey All

Just out of interest, where do you stand as a Christian when it comes to the British National Party?

People label them as racist thugs yet they stand for good moral teaching in schools (i.e. non of this secular multicultural and multi-religion teaching), stand against Homosexuality and also against the Islamification of the United Kingdom (which I believe is the single greatest threat to Western civilisation and indeed Chrisitianity).

I'll probably get hate mail or something but i'm an ex-member and I am considering re-applying for membership this year.

All the other parties are more bothered about the rights of sinners than supporting the church. You only have to look at the Labour & Conservative pro-gay legislation which is going to force Catholic (and some jewish and muslim) adoption agencies to close. The Lib dems are just as bad with their MP (Phil Willis) saying that banning embryo testing (mixing human and animals together) will be bad for science.

Any comments welcome

 

[sebastian]

I want mulitcultural Britain, I like walking down my street and seeing black white asian oriental europoean and whatever else mixing and mingling together, I like chinese food a lot, i like indian food, I'd hate to see it go, some good frinds of mine are black and asian, i'd hate to see them go. I don't like the BNP's stance on a white britain. I don't think sending people back to "thier own country" is a good idea either, what would happen to peopl of different ethnic backgrounds, ie. one white one black? does that include people of Irish decsent? or is it only non whites? Do you feel that people shouldn't be taught about other religions? What Christian values are they supporting specificaly? Why is Islam a threat to Christianity, is the truth able to be threatened? I beleive in freedom of speech, and i beleive that gay people have the right to live the best they can and be left in peace, if they are outside of the church why should we stop them getting civil partnerships, it's just a legal proceding?

 

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

If you see the BNP as Christian then you are delusional. They are just racists.

 

[sebastian]

All the other parties are more bothered about the rights of sinners than supporting the church.

another thing i'd say is that the church must rely on God alone. I don't care wether the government supports us or not, and if it means comprimising my faith to tow a government policy in fear of losing that support, then i;d rather be without.
your right in saying the current government parties are a bit useless over many things, but I don't think the idealism of the BNP is the answer.

 

[JRW1989]

I want mulitcultural Britain, I like walking down my street and seeing black white asian oriental europoean and whatever else mixing and mingling together, I like chinese food a lot, i like indian food, I'd hate to see it go, some good frinds of mine are black and asian, i'd hate to see them go. I don't like the BNP's stance on a white britain. I don't think sending people back to "thier own country" is a good idea either, what would happen to peopl of different ethnic backgrounds, ie. one white one black? does that include people of Irish decsent? or is it only non whites?

An answer from the BNP themselves:

...We don't 'hate' black people, we don't 'hate' Asians, we don't oppose any ethnic group for what God made them, they have a right to their own identity as much as we do, all we want to do is to preserve the ethnic and cultural identity of the British people. We want the same human rights as everyone else, a right to a homeland, security, identity, democracy and freedom. We are not against immigrants as individuals. We are against a system which imports cheap labour regardless of the wishes of the host population. The British people were never asked if they wanted a multi-cultural society, immigration was forced on us undemocratically and against the clear wishes of the majority ( it's on a YouGov poll but CF won't let me post a link )

And on the Irish subject:

Membership of the British National Party is open to those of British or kindred European ethnic descent. ( BNP website, membership section )

___________________________________________________

Do you feel that people shouldn't be taught about other religions?

...I believe as a Christian that people should be informed of other religions yet it should be made clear that they are no substitue for the truth.

___________________________________________________

What Christian values are they supporting specificaly?

...true freedom for all, not just minority groups

___________________________________________________

Why is Islam a threat to Christianity, is the truth able to be threatened?

...no, but lives are. 9/11 and 7/7 being the most prominent examples
___________________________________________________

I beleive in freedom of speech, and i beleive that gay people have the right to live the best they can and be left in peace, if they are outside of the church why should we stop them getting civil partnerships, it's just a legal proceding?

...I agree with free speech too but I also believe that Christians must take a stand against Homosexuality. It utterly shatters the concept of a stable, natural relationship and it leads to all other sorts of sin (sodomy being the main one for obvious reasons).

I am not against gay people as humans but I vehomontly oppose their efforts to get their twisted practices backed by law. The UK was a country that used to hang homosexuals and arrested practising homosexuals up until 1969 (Sexual Offences Act 1967)

 

[sebastian]

I'm not saying the BNP as a party hate black people or whatever, but if they're reasoning is that it's unfair to bring in cheap labour. however they then state it's ok if they're european? what's the difference? y'kjnow how many Irish imigrants work here? and now the european number of workers is quite high too.

what is volutary repatriation then? (is that spelt right?)

you say the Christian values that the BNP stand for is freedom for all, not just ethnic minorities, the you say aboyut gay people they shouldn't have the right to civil partnership and that they used to be hanged or arrested. well, where is they're freedom.

as for islam, the bombings are done by a sect of islam, and yeah there are a lot of the tyoe in our country to blow themselves up, why do you think they want to in the first place? why do you think the middle eastern countries hate us so much?

The thing I dislike about the BNP is that though they base they're policies on a lot of important issues that I'd like to see changes in, such as imigration and proper equal rights for white people as well as the minority groups, and the end of stupid P/C speech. the BNP's solutions are not realistic.

 

[Pogue]

To me it seems obvious that the BNP is a racist party, because they let you join the party based on your race. For example, I could join the BNP (if I had a personality change) even though my ancestors came from Ireland 4 generations ago, because I was born and bred in the UK. However, if my ancestors had come from, say, India, 4 generations ago, I would not be allowed to join, even though I would have lived my whole life in the UK.
This seems to say that it's better to have ancestors from Europe than from Asia or Africa, which makes no sense to me. Mine were just as poor, and at the time, had to put up with just as many prejudices, as many immigrants do today.
They are a dangerous party, and I fear that their attempts to pass themselves off as a legitimate political party will fool people who believe the Daily Mail scare stories about immigration.
Basically, they are polar opposites of what I believe, and I'm a Christian. As a Christian, I oppose the BNP, because I think they stir up hatred and fear.

 

[JRW1989]

I'm not saying the BNP as a party hate black people or whatever, but if they're reasoning is that it's unfair to bring in cheap labour. however they then state it's ok if they're european? what's the difference? y'kjnow how many Irish imigrants work here? and now the european number of workers is quite high too.

-

what is volutary repatriation then? (is that spelt right?)

- economic incentives to return home (i.e. Foreign Aid to their countries, travel grants to return home).

you say the Christian values that the BNP stand for is freedom for all, not just ethnic minorities, the you say aboyut gay people they shouldn't have the right to civil partnership and that they used to be hanged or arrested. well, where is they're freedom.

- my point was that Homosexuality has gone from a crime to something we're told we have to proud about in society

as for islam, the bombings are done by a sect of islam, and yeah there are a lot of the tyoe in our country to blow themselves up, why do you think they want to in the first place? why do you think the middle eastern countries hate us so much?

- they hate us because we threaten the way they conduct their lives. They don't like the west taking a righteous, moral stand. They don't like it when we critisize the way they beat women and treat Christians and Jews with utter contempt.

The thing I dislike about the BNP is that though they base they're policies on a lot of important issues that I'd like to see changes in, such as imigration and proper equal rights for white people as well as the minority groups, and the end of stupid P/C speech. the BNP's solutions are not realistic.

- no political party is ever going to please everyone but I believe the BNP is the best party for our country at present - whether you're a Christian or you simply just value the traditional western way of life.

 

[JRW1989]

To me it seems obvious that the BNP is a racist party, because they let you join the party based on your race. For example, I could join the BNP (if I had a personality change) even though my ancestors came from Ireland 4 generations ago, because I was born and bred in the UK. However, if my ancestors had come from, say, India, 4 generations ago, I would not be allowed to join, even though I would have lived my whole life in the UK.
This seems to say that it's better to have ancestors from Europe than from Asia or Africa, which makes no sense to me.

- it doesn't mean that at all. It's a group of like-minded people. For example, i'd probably get turned away from the Black Police Association, the Black Lawyers Association and the Gay Police Association. Does that make them racist organisations? No - they groups of like minded and similar people therefore they have to be selective just like the BNP

They are a dangerous party, and I fear that their attempts to pass themselves off as a legitimate political party will fool people who believe the Daily Mail scare stories about immigration.
Basically, they are polar opposites of what I believe, and I'm a Christian. As a Christian, I oppose the BNP, because I think they stir up hatred and fear.

- As a Christian, I agree with most of the views of the BNP. I believe Christians shouldn't just stand by and watch our beliefs and values be ridiculed whilst the devil takes hold of society through the back door

 

[Pogue]

- it doesn't mean that at all. It's a group of like-minded people. For example, i'd probably get turned away from the Black Police Association, the Black Lawyers Association and the Gay Police Association. Does that make them racist organisations? No - they groups of like minded and similar people therefore they have to be selective just like the BNP

Do they have actual policies which keep away white or heterosexual people?
And who's to say that a non-white person can't be just as interested in the preservation of British culture as a white person?

- As a Christian, I agree with most of the views of the BNP. I believe Christians shouldn't just stand by and watch our beliefs and values be ridiculed whilst the devil takes hold of society through the back door

Well, I disagree with most, if not all of their views. I don't see any real challenges to Christian beliefs in the UK. Sure, people make jokes about Christianity, but if you're a Christian in the first place it shouldn't bother you.

 

[sebastian]

what i meant in the first quote was if you stop imigration from black and asian and whatever on the basis that they are taking all the jobs, why is it ok to have european or irish join the BNP, they're still imigrants taking all the jobs.

so is volutary repatriation really voluntary? and what if the home country won't take them?

the fact homosexuality is no longer a crime is a good thing, to bring it back is bad. where is their freedom then?

the middle east hate us for amny reasons, we messed them over a lot, we practicaly owned half the middle east back in the days of the empire, then we split it up, gas and carpet bombed it, interfiered with internal politics, recreated the state of israel and just chucked out the palastinians and didn't even say sorry. they also see us as imoral, you just have to turn on the tv or read a magazine to see why. I'm not saying they're right, but chucking them out of the country and supressing they're religion willnot convince them we are nice guys really.

whether you're a Christian or you simply just value the traditional western way of life.

I'm a christian, I value people and diversity. what is a western way of life?

 

[sebastian]

if you really feel christianity is in danger, you should be praying and preparing for a coming revival rather than relying on man's politics. God is sovereign in this country if we want Him to be. God don't need the BNP to bail Him out.

 

[JRW1989]

Do they have actual policies which keep away white or heterosexual people?

- yes:

Membership to the Association is available to all black staff employed by the Metropolitan Police Service (from their website, CF won't let me link yet)

and the Gay Police Association app form requires you to state your sexuality (if heterosexual, you have to put your religion)

And who's to say that a non-white person can't be just as interested in the preservation of British culture as a white person?

- nothings to say that. My point is people shouldn't tear the BNP to shreds just because they're white and preserving their culture. We're taught to stand up for what we believe in yet the BNP get abuse for that. Where's the logic?

Well, I disagree with most, if not all of their views. I don't see any real challenges to Christian beliefs in the UK. Sure, people make jokes about Christianity, but if you're a Christian in the first place it shouldn't bother you.

- my point is as Christians we're going to find it harder to reach people if there are 'better' alternatives out there (e.g. new age stuff)

 

[sebastian]

my point is as Christians we're going to find it harder to reach people if there are 'better' alternatives out there

nought better than Jesus.

 

[Pogue]

- nothings to say that. My point is people shouldn't tear the BNP to shreds just because they're white and preserving their culture. We're taught to stand up for what we believe in yet the BNP get abuse for that. Where's the logic?

Well, I disagree that there's a common culture for all white people. I don't have more in common with a white person than with a black person just on the basis of race. I find it illogical that I'm allowed to have an interest in British culture wherever I'm from, and however few times I've been to Britain, as long as I'm white, but if I'm black, I would have less of a claim to 'Britishness' even if my family had been in Britain for 200 years and had never left it.

- my point is as Christians we're going to find it harder to reach people if there are 'better' alternatives out there (e.g. new age stuff)

I think there are just as many jokes are made about new age stuff. If that's what people want to believe, let them. It's what they're always going to do, whether it's promoted or not. And I don't think the BNP is a good way to reach out to Christians at all. Why can't we tell people about love, instead of telling them to fear immigrants?

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

Hey All

Just out of interest, where do you stand as a Christian when it comes to the British National Party?

People label them as racist thugs yet they stand for good moral teaching in schools (i.e. non of this secular multicultural and multi-religion teaching), stand against Homosexuality and also against the Islamification of the United Kingdom (which I believe is the single greatest threat to Western civilisation and indeed Chrisitianity).

BNP are essentially a party that thrives on using the negative outlook of people on some minorities. Once you allow the exclusion of one minority in the name of "the common good" you open up everyone to discrimination because everyone is a member of some minority group in the end. Even if they do get into power many of their policies are simply not workable but of course at the moment they can promise anything to anyone.

All the other parties are more bothered about the rights of sinners than supporting the church.

To many people the church is irrelevant, including a great many Christians.

You only have to look at the Labour & Conservative pro-gay legislation which is going to force Catholic (and some jewish and muslim) adoption agencies to close.

There is nothing forcing them to close except for their irrational bias. Personally I prefer children being brought up withing a loving home regardless of the sexes/sexual preferences involved than in a largely uncaring institution.

The Lib dems are just as bad with their MP (Phil Willis) saying that banning embryo testing (mixing human and animals together) will be bad for science.

He's right, stopping the use animal eggs to open up new stem cell lines has been a blow to some lines of medical research.

 

[bunced]

The BNP is a racist party. There is no two ways about it. Doesn't matter if you elect them because you think they will empty your bins twice a week, or because you think they will make schools a "jolly nice place to be" - they are racist.

They want to create a Britain where a mutant, false form of Christianity is in control - not create a Christian Britain. For instance, they think that having a black Archbishop of York is "the main stumbling block for a Christian revival" (quote taken from their website, I will supply reference if needed).

I'm sorry, but in my book, Xenophobia does not count as a valid reason for objecting to a person's appointment.

Islamification is not the biggest threat to the world today - people not being willing to talk to each other and to listen to each other is the greatest threat to the the world - and I am talking not only about Islam, but also about militant Christianity, Humanism, atheism, whatever. If people just learnt to talk and respect one another, there would not be a problem.

A multicultural Britain IS PART OF Britain's identity - and has been for over 40 years. What the BNP mean is their view of Britain's identity, which is totally delusional. Britain has always been a melting pot of cultures - we had the French, the Danes, the Scandinavians and the Irish in 1000 - 1300 AD, Arab traders in the middle ages, black immigrants in the later 1800s, immigrants from all over the world after that. We are a multicultural nation. And, in my view, the richer for it. We can all learn from each other and all learn to respect each other - listening to others' point of view will not get you sent to Hell, nor will it morally corrupt a nation.

As for teaching about other religions - they should all be taught and presented equally. If you believe that Christianity is the only way (which, for reference, I do) - people will choose that. Indoctrination is not an answer to anything, and makes the whole world poorer for it.

Homosexuality is not something the Church needs to take a stand on at the moment - I think, in all honesty the following are more important: people not talking to each other, high crime rates, poverty, lack of freedom of religion, global conflict, people with wrecked lives, people with no self-esteem, various addictions, abuse of children, lack of care for the elderly, lack of care for the homeless, lack of care for the abused.

Then, when they are sorted, we can move on to homosexuality. Because I believe, with all my heart my God is more interested in Justice and mercy towards people let down by society and towards those on the edge of society than he is about two guys having it off with each other, and the church really needs to grow up on this issue.

Now, I think the BNP's views are dangerous in the extreme. But I would die for the right for them to express those views and for you to hold views I vehemently disagree with. I also separate you as a person from the views you hold, and will treat you as a person

At the same time, don't expect me not to "ridicule" them, if that's what you would call this post. It's part of living in a democracy.

 

[JRW1989]

The BNP is a racist party. There is no two ways about it. Doesn't matter if you elect them because you think they will empty your bins twice a week, or because you think they will make schools a "jolly nice place to be" - they are racist.

- again, please refer to their website. When asked "are you racist" the BNP reply is

No. "Racism" is when you ‘hate’ another ethnic group. We don't 'hate' black people, we don't 'hate' Asians, we don't oppose any ethnic group for what God made them, they have a right to their own identity as much as we do, all we want to do is to preserve the ethnic and cultural identity of the British people. We want the same human rights as everyone else, a right to a homeland, security, identity, democracy and freedom. We are not against immigrants as individuals. We are against a system which imports cheap labour regardless of the wishes of the host population. The British people were never asked if they wanted a multi-cultural society, immigration was forced on us undemocratically and against the clear wishes of the majority.

I support the BNP yet I am 100% non-racist. - I have a very good Asian friend and also some great African family friends.

They want to create a Britain where a mutant, false form of Christianity is in control - not create a Christian Britain. For instance, they think that having a black Archbishop of York is "the main stumbling block for a Christian revival" (quote taken from their website, I will supply reference if needed).

- a quote from their website would be appreciated

I'm sorry, but in my book, Xenophobia does not count as a valid reason for objecting to a person's appointment.

- it does if the fear is justified.

Islamification is not the biggest threat to the world today - people not being willing to talk to each other and to listen to each other is the greatest threat to the the world - and I am talking not only about Islam, but also about militant Christianity, Humanism, atheism, whatever. If people just learnt to talk and respect one another, there would not be a problem.

- Islam as a religion believes Christians to be inferior -

Surah 5:17 Unbelievers are those who declare: "Allah is the Messiah,
the son of Mary." {51} Believers, take neither Jews nor
Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another.
Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their
number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers. {54} Your only
friends are Allah, His apostle, and the faithful: those who
attend to their prayers, pay their alms-tax, and kneel down in
worship. Those who seek the friendship of Allah, His apostle,
and the faithful must know that Allah's followers are sure to
triumph. {57} Believers, do not seek the friendship of the
infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have
made of your religion a jest and a pastime. {66} If the People
of the Book (i.e. Christians and Jews) accept the true faith
and keep from evil, We will pardon them their sins and admit
them to the gardens of delight. {71} Unbelievers are those
that say: "Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary." Unbelievers
are those that say: "Allah is one of three." There is one God.
If they do not desist from so saying, those that disbelieve
shall be sternly punished.

- how can we have dialogue with people who hate us?

A multicultural Britain IS PART OF Britain's identity - and has been for over 40 years. What the BNP mean is their view of Britain's identity, which is totally delusional. Britain has always been a melting pot of cultures - we had the French, the Danes, the Scandinavians and the Irish in 1000 - 1300 AD, Arab traders in the middle ages, black immigrants in the later 1800s, immigrants from all over the world after that. We are a multicultural nation. And, in my view, the richer for it. We can all learn from each other and all learn to respect each other - listening to others' point of view will not get you sent to Hell, nor will it morally corrupt a nation.

- please refer to the following (from the BNP website, in response to the Question "When you talk about being british, what do you mean?":

We mean the bonds of culture, race, identity and roots of the native British peoples of the British Isles. We have lived in these islands near on 40,000 years! We were made by these islands, and these islands are our home. When we in the BNP talk about being British, we talk about the native peoples who have lived in these islands since before the Stone Age, and the relatively small numbers of peoples of almost identical stock, such as the Saxons, Vikings and Normans, and the Irish, who have come here and assimilated.

- 40 years of different food and music doesn't override thousands of years of natural European assimilation. On the "all learn together point", please refer to the quote from the Koran.

As for teaching about other religions - they should all be taught and presented equally. If you believe that Christianity is the only way (which, for reference, I do) - people will choose that. Indoctrination is not an answer to anything, and makes the whole world poorer for it.

- i'm not advocating indoctrination, I just believe that sometimes the thing that lets evil happen is good men to standing by doing nothing, just leaving the door open to cults and sects.

Homosexuality is not something the Church needs to take a stand on at the moment - I think, in all honesty the following are more important: people not talking to each other, high crime rates, poverty, lack of freedom of religion, global conflict, people with wrecked lives, people with no self-esteem, various addictions, abuse of children, lack of care for the elderly, lack of care for the homeless, lack of care for the abused.

- I didn't mean to come across as if Homosexuality is the most important aspect of society. Of course there are other serious problems that need dealing with.

Then, when they are sorted, we can move on to homosexuality. Because I believe, with all my heart my God is more interested in Justice and mercy towards people let down by society and towards those on the edge of society than he is about two guys having it off with each other, and the church really needs to grow up on this issue.

- I've been let down by a society that tells me I need to accept homosexualty and debauchery as the norm. It's like guarding the front gates yet leaving the back right open.

Now, I think the BNP's views are dangerous in the extreme. But I would die for the right for them to express those views and for you to hold views I vehemently disagree with. I also separate you as a person from the views you hold, and will treat you as a person

- i'm glad you haven't resulted to the usual "you racist ignorant bigot" comments that I usually get.

At the same time, don't expect me not to "ridicule" them, if that's what you would call this post. It's part of living in a democracy.

- lol feel free to ridicule. It wouldn't be fair of me to always counter your points yet not let you do the same for mine.

 

[JRW1989]

BNP are essentially a party that thrives on using the negative outlook of people on some minorities. Once you allow the exclusion of one minority in the name of "the common good" you open up everyone to discrimination because everyone is a member of some minority group in the end. Even if they do get into power many of their policies are simply not workable but of course at the moment they can promise anything to anyone.


To many people the church is irrelevant, including a great many Christians.

There is nothing forcing them to close except for their irrational bias. Personally I prefer children being brought up withing a loving home regardless of the sexes/sexual preferences involved than in a largely uncaring institution.

He's right, stopping the use animal eggs to open up new stem cell lines has been a blow to some lines of medical research.

Your views all depend on where you stand religiously and ethically I suppose. For yourself, you might agree with mixing embryos but other people find it a disgusting abuse of science......I'm not sure where the "to many christians the church is irrelevant" point comes from....

 

[sebastian]

I might be wrong about this, I'm basing this more on etymology than genetics, but from what I understand the Saxons, Vikings and Normans may have Scandanavian roots but the Irish are Celts, they're different peoples. and 40,000 years isn't quite accurate either, the celts arrived roughly 3000 years ago, before they came a different people lived on these islands, and before them some others probably, then came the Romans, and the introduction of scandinavian blood via the Viking Saxon Angles (who we got our countries name from) and later the Norman all around 1000 years ago. It can be argued that the celts and the Scandinavian share the same European roots, but that can also go on to argue that the Proto-Indo European peoples who came west instead of east are close relatives of semetic peoples and Indian peoples if we go back far enough.
Then as bunced said, we had people with a different skin colour coming in. our contry is and has always changed. if the BNP is trying to define Britishness by a people who lived on this island 40,000 years ago, well, God only knows of there are any of those people left in this world at all.