Blameless vs. Sinless, Open for discussion.

OrthodoxyUSA · Jan 29, 2014

Understanding the difference between blameless and sinless.

In the beginning of humanity there was no sin. We (first man and first woman) lived in our 'created nature'. There was no death. There was no decay.

'Sin' (to miss the mark of perfection as if aiming an arrow at a target) came into the world and death and decay were the direct result. We all know this story. It is the undoing of creation, by disconnection from The Holy Trinity.

We (humanity) carry the stain (or mark) of that original sin, but we are not at fault ourselves. This is called being blameless. A newborn child carries the stain of sin, but is blameless. The child will die, having been born into our 'fallen nature'. Decay will take the body and it shall return to dust. (Christ God shows great mercy to the blameless.)

Christ God came into the world without the stain of sin. Even to the point of HIS willingly taking on death for us, HE did not decay. Instead, death itself was broken as it could not contain a sinless one. The undoing of our created nature was stopped and creation was once again given the ability to connect to The Holy Trinity.

In this life we are called to be blameless, and upon being given our purified bodies we will indeed be sinless.

New Testament scriptures that remind us of blamelessness:

1Cr 1:8
Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Phl 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Phl 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

1Th 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1 Timothy 3:10
And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

1 Timothy 5:7
And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless.

Titus 1:6
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

Titus 1:7
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

2 Peter 3:14
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

No one, other than Christ has been sinless. That is true Christology (the nature of Christ).

(The Theotokos [Mary] was not born sinless, so lets just leave her out of this conversation ok? I'm not looking for a conversation on Mariology.)

The idea of the thread is to discuss the difference in the nature of 'sinless' and 'blameless' themselves.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

MJohn7 · Jan 29, 2014

I dont know about blameless vs sinless but i just got finished reading second Peter. We must put differences aside that cause division and encourage one another to live holy and godly lives, being at peace with meek and humble spirits. Most of these debates are not profitable and only lead to more ungodliness, as Paul said.

2 Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[b] That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.
14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

OrthodoxyUSA · Jan 29, 2014

MJohn7 said:
I dont know about blameless vs sinless but i just got finished reading second Peter. We must put differences aside that cause division and encourage one another to live holy and godly lives, being at peace with meek and humble spirits. Most of these debates are not profitable and only lead to more ungodliness, as Paul said.

2 Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[b] That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.
14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

God bless you John.

Take care of one another.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

MJohn7 · Jan 29, 2014

OrthodoxyUSA said:
God bless you John.

Take care of one another.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Amen.

OrthodoxyUSA · Jan 29, 2014

Bump

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Willie T · Jan 29, 2014

Just curious (and too lazy to look it up), does anyone know if the usage of the word, "blameless" means the same thing in all those verses in the OP? (Grammar & Syntax)

Setyoufree · Jan 29, 2014

Sinless means we are empty of all sin, i.e., we are perfect in nature and performance. To be sinless is to be perfectly in harmony with God's law (* "you shall love your neighbor as you love yourself") and without "indwelling sin" (the sin nature).

To be blameless is to be perfect in performance only, but yet still retain one's nature. I guess you could call it sinless living in sinful flesh.

Christ as God, took upon His sinless nature, our sinful fallen nature. He lived a blameless life before God in our humanity and then at the resurrection He was given a sinless humanity. This humanity, our corporate humanity, He holds before His holy law (*). Hence in Him we stand perfect (blameless & sinless) by faith.

Conclusion:

1] No one is sinless of himself or herself

2] No one is blameless of himself or herself

3] Believers are only blameless & sinless in Christ Jesus by faith

bling · Jan 29, 2014

Blameless might have to do with others and not with God directly. The Elder must be blameless in his dealings with the world and blameless with his dealings with his family. Any mistake the potential elder has made in the past has been resolved so he stands “blameless”. We are all required to quickly resolve any perceived fault we have between others, so they cannot blame us about anything.

Sinless has to do with God since God determines what is and is not sin. Sins can be forgiven and removed that way and we can go on in a sinless life, but that does not mean we have not sinned in the past.

As far as the “fall” goes, the Bible never talks about Adam and Eve’s first sinning as a “fall”, nor does it say man’s nature changed in any way, but man’s knowledge did change.

Willie T · Jan 29, 2014

Willie T said:
Just curious (and too lazy to look it up), does anyone know if the usage of the word, "blameless" means the same thing in all those verses in the OP? (Grammar & Syntax)

I take it that is a, "No?"

Giver · Jan 29, 2014

OrthodoxyUSA said:
Understanding the difference between blameless and sinless.

In the beginning of humanity there was no sin. We (first man and first woman) lived in our 'created nature'. There was no death. There was no decay.

'Sin' (to miss the mark of perfection as if aiming an arrow at a target) came into the world and death and decay were the direct result. We all know this story. It is the undoing of creation, by disconnection from The Holy Trinity.

We (humanity) carry the stain (or mark) of that original sin, but we are not at fault ourselves. This is called being blameless. A newborn child carries the stain of sin, but is blameless. The child will die, having been born into our 'fallen nature'. Decay will take the body and it shall return to dust. (Christ God shows great mercy to the blameless.)

Christ God came into the world without the stain of sin. Even to the point of HIS willingly taking on death for us, HE did not decay. Instead, death itself was broken as it could not contain a sinless one. The undoing of our created nature was stopped and creation was once again given the ability to connect to The Holy Trinity.

In this life we are called to be blameless, and upon being given our purified bodies we will indeed be sinless.

New Testament scriptures that remind us of blamelessness:

No one, other than Christ has been sinless. That is true Christology (the nature of Christ).

(The Theotokos [Mary] was not born sinless, so lets just leave her out of this conversation ok? I'm not looking for a conversation on Mariology.)

The idea of the thread is to discuss the difference in the nature of 'sinless' and 'blameless' themselves.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

That is right all people have sinned. But those people who are in God no longer sin.

(1 John 2:6) But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did

John told us how to tell if one is in God or not. Jesus did not sin, and to walk as Jesus did we will not sin either.

The next verse tells us how it is possible for us to never sin again.

(Romans 8:1-4) The reason, therefore, why those who are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, is that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. God has done what the Law, because of our unspiritual nature, was unable to do. God dealt with sin by sending his own Son in a body as physical as any sinful body, and in that body God condemned sin he did this in order the Laws just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the spirit dictates.

Just in case you missed it notice that we are to walk as the Holy Spirit dictates. The Holy Spirit will never tell one to sin.

ChristsSoldier115 · Jan 29, 2014

You mean like a translation issue? I used google translate and its the same greek word. Why would they use a different english word for the same greek word? Maybe it is in context to the surrounding greek word phonetics?

I'm not a greek linguist or have an early copy of 2 peter in greek to say yay or nay though.

Willie T · Jan 29, 2014

ChristsSoldier115 said:
You mean like a translation issue? I used google translate and its the same greek word. Why would they use a different english word for the same greek word? Maybe it is in context to the surrounding greek word phonetics?

I'm not a greek linguist or have an early copy of 2 peter in greek to say yay or nay though.

Well, check out the word, "FELL", where the Holy Spirit "fell" in the conversion of Cornelius' house.

Then go check out the word, "FELL" in the story of the father who "fell" on his prodigal son's neck, and kissed him.

Same word (# 1968) in both cases. But entirely different meanings from the grammatical contexts.

And, of course, we all know a particular English word can often have different meanings in Hebrew or Greek.

Thekla · Jan 29, 2014

Willie T said:
Well, check out the word, "FELL", where the Holy Spirit "fell" in the conversion of Cornelius' house.

Then go check out the word, "FELL" in the story of the father who "fell" on his prodigal son's neck, and kissed him.

Same word (# wise) in both cases. But entirely different meanings from the grammatical contexts.

And, of course, we all know a particular English word can often have different meanings in Hebrew or Greek.

Just curious; how do you understand these as being "different" ?

Willie T · Jan 29, 2014

Thekla said:
Just curious; how do you understand these as being "different" ?

One is a "power" coming onto people, and affecting them (their actions).

The other is a father hugging his child's neck.

~Anastasia~ · Jan 29, 2014

I've been thinking about this since you mentioned it a few days ago in another thread.

I'm glad to be able to consider it, since if you read "blameless" in Scripture to mean "sinless" it muddles things up.

I'll give it a try to explain what I've been thinking.

There are sins we commit, our actions, our words, our thoughts. And sins by what we fail to do in actions certainly, and probably also in words and thoughts.

While I believe none of us are sinless (only Christ), it is apparent from Scripture that we can be blameless.

I still think of my great-grandmother. The last generational Christian that I knew of for sure in my family. I used to look at her and think she must not sin anymore. She never did anything wrong, never raised her voice, never lost her temper, never forgot to pray. I can't know her thoughts, but it was hard to imagine her sinning there either. I know she had sinned in her life, as we all do, but it was as if she was beyond all that.

I think maybe that's what being blameless is? Nothing you can point to in the person's life that accuses them.

I think blameless is probably an imperfect state though. I would guess the person could still sin, if circumstances caused it perhaps, or if they possibly weaken.

Sinless I think is impossible for humans in this life. After we have our glorified bodies, I think we will be sinless, but not until then.

nephilimiyr · Jan 29, 2014

OrthodoxyUSA said:
Understanding the difference between blameless and sinless.

In the beginning of humanity there was no sin. We (first man and first woman) lived in our 'created nature'. There was no death. There was no decay.

'Sin' (to miss the mark of perfection as if aiming an arrow at a target) came into the world and death and decay were the direct result. We all know this story. It is the undoing of creation, by disconnection from The Holy Trinity.

We (humanity) carry the stain (or mark) of that original sin, but we are not at fault ourselves. This is called being blameless. A newborn child carries the stain of sin, but is blameless. The child will die, having been born into our 'fallen nature'. Decay will take the body and it shall return to dust. (Christ God shows great mercy to the blameless.)

Christ God came into the world without the stain of sin. Even to the point of HIS willingly taking on death for us, HE did not decay. Instead, death itself was broken as it could not contain a sinless one. The undoing of our created nature was stopped and creation was once again given the ability to connect to The Holy Trinity.

In this life we are called to be blameless, and upon being given our purified bodies we will indeed be sinless.

New Testament scriptures that remind us of blamelessness:

No one, other than Christ has been sinless. That is true Christology (the nature of Christ).

(The Theotokos [Mary] was not born sinless, so lets just leave her out of this conversation ok? I'm not looking for a conversation on Mariology.)

The idea of the thread is to discuss the difference in the nature of 'sinless' and 'blameless' themselves.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Our born again spirit was created in true righteousness and holiness, to be like God. But our soul was not changed when we first believed on Jesus Christ, only our spirit changed. Our born again spirit is blameless and sinless, but our soul is still trained to sin and it does sin. Our goal in life is to get our soul to listen to our born again spirit.

My point is stated; our born again spirit is both blameless and sinless, our soul has both sin and blame to deal with, our born again spirit doesn't have to deal with either one.

This isn't about blameless vs sinless, this is about born again spirit vs soul.

Great idea for a thread by the way.

OrthodoxyUSA · Jan 30, 2014

Kylissa said:
I've been thinking about this since you mentioned it a few days ago in another thread.

I'm glad to be able to consider it, since if you read "blameless" in Scripture to mean "sinless" it muddles things up.

I'll give it a try to explain what I've been thinking.

There are sins we commit, our actions, our words, our thoughts. And sins by what we fail to do in actions certainly, and probably also in words and thoughts.

While I believe none of us are sinless (only Christ), it is apparent from Scripture that we can be blameless.

I still think of my great-grandmother. The last generational Christian that I knew of for sure in my family. I used to look at her and think she must not sin anymore. She never did anything wrong, never raised her voice, never lost her temper, never forgot to pray. I can't know her thoughts, but it was hard to imagine her sinning there either. I know she had sinned in her life, as we all do, but it was as if she was beyond all that.

I think maybe that's what being blameless is? Nothing you can point to in the person's life that accuses them.

I think blameless is probably an imperfect state though. I would guess the person could still sin, if circumstances caused it perhaps, or if they possibly weaken.

Sinless I think is impossible for humans in this life. After we have our glorified bodies, I think we will be sinless, but not until then.

QFT ~

God be gracious to me a sinner.

OrthodoxyUSA · Jan 30, 2014

Setyoufree said:
Sinless means we are empty of all sin, i.e., we are perfect in nature and performance. To be sinless is to be perfectly in harmony with God's law (* "you shall love your neighbor as you love yourself") and without "indwelling sin" (the sin nature).

To be blameless is to be perfect in performance only, but yet still retain one's nature. I guess you could call it sinless living in sinful flesh.

Christ as God, took upon His sinless nature, our sinful fallen nature. He lived a blameless life before God in our humanity and then at the resurrection He was given a sinless humanity. This humanity, our corporate humanity, He holds before His holy law (*). Hence in Him we stand perfect (blameless & sinless) by faith.

Conclusion:

1] No one is sinless of himself or herself

2] No one is blameless of himself or herself

3] Believers are only blameless & sinless in Christ Jesus by faith

I would challenge numbers two and three. We do these things best when we are following 'The Church'.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

OrthodoxyUSA · Jan 30, 2014

nephilimiyr said:
Our born again spirit was created in true righteousness and holiness, to be like God. But our soul was not changed when we first believed on Jesus Christ, only our spirit changed. Our born again spirit is blameless and sinless, but our soul is still trained to sin and it does sin. Our goal in life is to get our soul to listen to our born again spirit.

My point is stated; our born again spirit is both blameless and sinless, our soul has both sin and blame to deal with, our born again spirit doesn't have to deal with either one.

This isn't about blameless vs sinless, this is about born again spirit vs soul.

Great idea for a thread by the way.

Neph... that spirit is not 'our' spirit until we put it on, it's The Holy Spirit. We train our souls to put on The Holy Spirit. It is the white robe of incorruption spiritually given upon our baptism and sealed in crismation. The white robe prepares us to take communion. The Sacrament known as the fountain of life and immortality.

Mankind has body and soul. We put on The Spirit. We take upon ourselves the mantle of righteous. We make the change in ourselves by doing as we are told. The spiritual life of our soul can be corrected.

It is an effort to put it on and live in it. There are songs and prayers that go with the robe, they are comforting and are only taught from within the Apostolic Churches.

I do understand what you are saying.

God be gracious to me sinner.

bmjackson · Jan 30, 2014

I think blameless is probably an imperfect state though. I would guess the person could still sin, if circumstances caused it perhaps, or if they possibly weaken.

Sinless I think is impossible for humans in this life. After we have our glorified bodies, I think we will be sinless, but not until then.

Kylissa, sinlessness according to scripture, does not mean that a person cannot sin again. We are always liable to fall back into sin but it says in Jude 22 that He can keep us from falling.

Blameless vs. Sinless, Open for discussion.

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