Black Amerindians

[SuperCloud]

Here a video about this. I did not watch most the video but I was intrigued by the fact some black phenotype people actually where reared on the reservation.

To me... if you were raised on a rez and raised among an Amerindian nation then you qualify as being just in calling yourself Indian.

However, and many ethnic Black-Americans know this, there are so many Black-Americans that claim to have Indian ancestry or more especially credit their "good hair" to being part Amerindian from some long lost relative, that it is hard to take some of these claims seriously at times.

My Black-American grandmother's mother was supposedly Indian or part Indian. So, after I became an adult in my early 20s I asked her about this. She said her mother was part Indian but she did not know what kind of Indian because she didn't have long hair like her mother so never asked her. She sent me to her sister to ask her and find out. So I did and my great aunt said their mother was Creek Indian. First time I ever heard of Creeks. So I looked them up and found out a lot of Creeks mixed with blacks in the South (my grandmother was from the South).

But then her son--my father--had a DNA test done. And no Amerindian ancestry was found.

So, truth or legend?

Some of this controversy over who is mixed with--or more especially *is*--Indian was discussed on a mixed race website I used go on a long time ago.

I remember one white Latino (from Latin America) who had a darker mestizo father could not get along with a fellow poster on the website who was white phenotype as he was (they both posted their photos) but identified exclusively as Indian. The Latino would keep telling the other guy he was not Indian which would anger the other guy. But you can see how the Amerindian population in the U.S. has swelled in numbers (in certain Indian nations) as they included more people that in Latin America would be viewed as mestizo or mixed. Whereas in Latin America where "full blooded" people are only counted their numbers have often dwindled.

The again... in Brazil blacks or mixed race peoples that live in the amazon forest and have been reared up in some of those "native" forest customs identify themselves as "Indian" or "forest people" which supposedly connotes Indian too. That black environmental activist woman that almost ran for the Brazilian presidency this time around was one of them. She started calling herself black once she got deeper into politics and wanted to appeal to the growing population of "I'm black and proud" people of Brazil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPLgbgl4q8E

This was one of the comments under the video. Understanding some of the cultural tones I found it a bit funny. I recall some other black person on that past mixed race website saying you can tell when someone is telling a lie that they have Amerindian blood, because they'll always claim to be part Cherokee. I think this is kind of what this black woman is referencing here.

·

I'm 100% black American and damn proud. No claiming other races here. Blacks are learning real fast that other races do not want to be associated with them and that's damn fine with me. Black and proud and my DNA test showed I'm of Tswana descent from Southern Africa....and I'm proud to look like my people. Kinky natural hair, dark skin, thick lips, flatter feet, big butt.....yes...I love it.




Reply
·


+mzxtian83 Yeah it's pretty pathetic. Blacks claim all these other races who in no way ever claims them, making blacks look like self hating idiots. The people who have black ancestry go out of their way to hide their black ancestry. I could have slapped Raven Simone with the comment she made about her lack of being black. I'm sure her great grandma was Cherokee since that seems to be the tribe of choice. Or maybe grandma was French, either way I hope she realized how stupid and ignorant she looked and sounded. Wonder if she'll ever get casted to play a darker skinned white woman since she's not so black...... Yeah we'll wait on that!

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Lewis and Clark's journals of crossing the louisana purchase talk about the tribes they've come across totally fascinated with their black slaves and I believe they made some deal for one of their slaves get one of their girls pregnant. They believed him to be supernatural or something because of his skin tone and hair. I am not surprised if what you say is true.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

There were Indian slave owners.

 

[brewmama]

There were Indian slave owners.

There were also black slave owners.

 

[Douger]

I know that a lot of escaped slaves joined native American tribes. IMO their descendants have a right to claim Native American heritage.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I remember posting in a thread on this topic a few years ago.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

In the United States, to be classified as an indigenous native (for purposes of legal privileges and certain financial allowances), one must be at least a certain percentage of indigenous native genetic code - heredity (what used to be called 'blood') - AND identify culturally as part of that group. (From my days as an Immigration Officer.)

Brazil? I have no idea about how it works in Brazil.

To me... if you were raised on a rez and raised among an Amerindian nation then you qualify as being just in calling yourself Indian.

Does Elizabeth Warren count?

Super, I would agree with your definition for purposes of bragging or getting free drinks or such. Your definition does not agree with the legal definition (no mention of heredity) for getting 'benefits'.

Nor am I sure just exactly the point of your post. If you are merely asking about your family history, the genetic testing is the deciding factor.

Supposedly my ancestors married into some Amerind group - details lacking (odd?). I would be happy to claim kinship with one of the Five Tribes of the Iroquois, but I doubt it. I can legitimately claim kinship with Daniel Boone. I still have to pay full price for coffee. [insert smiley for 'big deal' here]

Regarding the two older men who argued about who was Indian and who wasn't: There is always someone who will pride themself on being 'more' something than someone else. If that's all they have, leave it to them.

 

[NannaNae]

really guys this whole thread is just a stinkin joke .
first of all everyone assumes everything they have stated as fact.

when in fact no one know who was here and even how dna works to create phenotypes.
what stupid ignorant a@@ scientism has done to people and their history.
what a dang mess!


phenotype is 80% your father and abt 20% your mothers father .. are those two men Representative of all your known history? do those two men phenotypes combined represent your culture ? and all your oral history going back thousands of years ?

but those two men and their two races ...that is all anyone will ever see . but is that all you are and is that all your ancestors ever were ?
there is no such thing as quantums.. there is only two males the father and the mother's father . which determine what 'race' someone else thinks they see.. and if the last two males are that male line they like and is that phenotype they like , no matter how low his Quantum is , that child will LooK
"native ", and will test 'native' when it is bs..... .... when in fact it is Siberian , Chinese and or Philippine or Polynesians or whatever some nutter plugged into some computer someplace as native .
How sad and truly screwed Up can these stupid arguments get .
when no one knows any real Turtle Island history and even who was here to start with or who came here even in all those years , much less how those genes work for who was here ! and the scientism and their theorist.. know less than zip about either of those subjects.
They have stole a history and genetics of a whole lot of people and made it what they want it too be and by that even created who they wanted them to be .. it is so twisted what they have done.

 

[Skaloop]

phenotype is 80% your father and abt 20% your mothers father

What? No. That's preposterous. This is the sort of nonsense that results from being anti-science.

 

[NannaNae]

your ignorant of lies you have helped create and promoted and how it stole peoples heritage and you are so owned !

 

[Skaloop]

your ignorant of lies you have help create and how stole peoples heritage and you are so owned !

Which lies?

Anyway, I am curious as to where you get the 80% and 20% phenotype numbers from.

 

[NannaNae]

well it look more like abt 74% father and abt 18 % the mother's father and

sometimes they see about 4% for each female lines, usually they can only see one.
( the females line it might find are ) 1. the child's direct female line

and the fathers mothers direct female lines .
sometimes they might pick up one of these ladies.. rarely though.
it is usually called a Ghost.
that is all they see .
that is all they can see.
because that is all race is .

in the mean time they have used
dna from chinese railroad workers turned minors buried in caves , with mtdna from known asians but now they call that dna native.. so twisted..
Siberians brought here for the fir trade taken across all of Canada now labaled natives ..
Polynesians brought to the west both males and females by the hundreds as pearl divers now called natives..

Chinese as slaves into mexico called chino's .. now called natives..
south east asians slaves brought too everywhere RICE was farmed now called native in their computers.
and on and on and on ..

.. these chinese dated to 5000 years . but were really chinese railroad workers taken from a mining cave on China lake , they called that Lake "China lake" for a reason! chinese men lived there and dug in the caves there. and they weren't there no 5000 years.
it is all lies and you are helping promote those lies and many more I can name !

 

[SuperCloud]

Brazil? I have no idea about how it works in Brazil.

I might have to amend my statements. If I'm remembering correctly the the American expat social scientist living in Brazil stated Marina Silva having been raised in the Amazon forest used to identify as a "forest person" which carries the connotation of Indian-ness. I was probably remembering wrong when I said "Indian." I think it might have been "Indian-ness." By which, I'm assuming, implies having qualities and outlooks related to the Amazonian Indians.

Marina Silva has a fascinating story and one of resilience and survival like that of the current female President and the male President before her.

Marina Silva: Marina Silva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But apparently, once she got deeper involved in Brazilian politics she changed her self description to a black woman. Again, to make herself more appealing to the swelling ranks of "I'm black and proud" Brazilians.

So, race, whether you are her or Obama or any other person on the planet, is charged with socio-politics.

Does Elizabeth Warren count?

I had no idea who this woman was so I had to google her up.

She looks like a many Amerindians in the United States today. For the purpose of American politics and for the good of the empire, the United States has to include people that look like her as "Indians" while simultaneously referring to short, dark, Mexicans as aliens and non-Indians.

Because race is infused with socio-politics.

Elizabeth Warren would be one of those I would doubt actually had Amerindian ancestry. So many Americans claim this today (blacks have been claiming it long before I was ever born--and in large part due to self hatred of Africa and the black phenotype) it's hard to take most of them seriously. Sure, some blacks and whites do have Amerindian ancestry. Some. Not everyone of them. And even if everyone of them did I'm not sure how consequential it is to their overall lives today.

Super, I would agree with your definition for purposes of bragging or getting free drinks or such. Your definition does not agree with the legal definition (no mention of heredity) for getting 'benefits'.

Well... see I disagree. Had Elizabeth Warren been raised either on a rez or raised among Amerindians I would consider her Indian if she had any Amerindian ancestry at all.

Therefore, on that old discussion board, I regarded that white phenotype guy as Indian (he was raised among Indians and was mixed-race with Indian) whereas that white mestizo Latino did not. Both of them had phenotypes more or less along the lines of Elizabeth Warren.

Nor am I sure just exactly the point of your post. If you are merely asking about your family history, the genetic testing is the deciding factor.

Supposedly my ancestors married into some Amerind group - details lacking (odd?). I would be happy to claim kinship with one of the Five Tribes of the Iroquois, but I doubt it. I can legitimately claim kinship with Daniel Boone. I still have to pay full price for coffee. [insert smiley for 'big deal' here]

Regarding the two older men who argued about who was Indian and who wasn't: There is always someone who will pride themself on being 'more' something than someone else. If that's all they have, leave it to them.

I don't claim any Amerindian ancestry. My father's DNA results which did not detect any Amerindian ancestry put that pretty much (not fully though) to rest. It was never a big thing with me in the first place. I've only ever identified as either black or black & white depending on who I was talking too or what options I was given on some form. I usually don't feel like getting into arguments and even though one side of my extend family, and one parent is white, acknowledging that around some people can create friction. I'd be better of saying I was half Cherokee Indian. Few people would probably get offended.

But supposedly, my own black family is not the only black family in the USA to discover through DNA results that its unlikely they have any Amerindian ancestry.

Okay, some Black-Americans are so light skinned (and I'm not talking brown like the Fulani in West Africa, and some Fulani came here as slaves) that it's rather obvious they have some generations of racial admixture. I know Black-Americans lighter than I am and they have two black parents.

But I would also note about Elizabeth Warren that plenty of ethnic Jews in the USA and Europe look like her too. Whilst the Jews are like Latinos, so, you have brown (Arab) Jews and black (Ethiopian) Jews. The black Jews admit their people were converts to Judaism from the ancient Hebrews, and converted before Jesus was ever born or Christianity became a religion. Unlike my readings of the spread of Christianity through most of Europe I've only read Christian missionaries coming across pagans (not Jews). Excepted in the Mediterranean region. So, I'm hazarding a guess Jews arrived in Germany and Russia many centuries after the Ethiopians converted to Judaism. I also suspect some Europeans converted to Judaism and that is why European Jews as not as dark as the Middle Eastern Jews. But the people that run Israel basically are Jews that look like Elizabeth Warren. Kind of like "Indians" in the United States more and more look like Elizabeth Warren but the empire denote short, dark, Mexicans as non-Indian trespassers.

 

[Red Fox]

your ignorant of lies you have help create and how stole peoples heritage and you are so owned !

It is what they have been taught and it is the truth that they accept as fact. It is said that history is written by the victors but their version of history does not make it true history. If you tell a lie often enough and long enough, it is eventually accepted as truth.

 

[Red Fox]

really guys this whole thread is just a stinkin joke .
first of all everyone assumes everything they have stated as fact.

when in fact no one know who was here and even how dna works to create phenotypes.
what stupid ignorant a@@ scientism has done to people and their history.
what a dang mess!


phenotype is 80% your father and abt 20% your mothers father .. are those two men Representative of all your known history? do those two men phenotypes combined represent your culture ? and all your oral history going back thousands of years ?

but those two men and their two races ...that is all anyone will ever see . but is that all you are and is that all your ancestors ever were ?
there is no such thing as quantums.. there is only two males the father and the mother's father . which determine what 'race' someone else thinks they see.. and if the last two males are that male line they like and is that phenotype they like , no matter how low his Quantum is , that child will LooK
"native ", and will test 'native' when it is bs..... .... when in fact it is Siberian , Chinese and or Philippine or Polynesians or whatever some nutter plugged into some computer someplace as native .
How sad and truly screwed Up can these stupid arguments get .
when no one knows any real Turtle Island history and even who was here to start with or who came here even in all those years , much less how those genes work for who was here ! and the scientism and their theorist.. know less than zip about either of those subjects.
They have stole a history and genetics of a whole lot of people and made it what they want it too be and by that even created who they wanted them to be .. it is so twisted what they have done.

Well said. I have never agreed with an NDN having to prove their blood quantum in order to be accepted by other NDNs or to receive money from the U.S. government. In fact, I absolutely refuse to accept any money for being an NDN, let alone prove my blood quantum to the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma (or to the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma). I know who I am and I relatively know what my NDN ancestry is, although I don't know all of it because I'm adopted.

 

[Skaloop]

well it look more like about 74% father and 18 % mothers father and

sometimes they see about 4% for each female lines, usually they can only see one.

74% of what? 18% of what? You mentioned before it was the phenotype; how to you quantify the percentage of a phenotype that is from the father?

the direct female line
and the fathers mother direct female lines . sometimes they might pick up one of these ladies.. rarely though.
that is all they see .
that is all they can see.
because that is all race is .

What is all they can see?

 

[SuperCloud]

Well said. I have never agreed with an NDN having to prove their blood quantum in order to be accepted by other NDNs or to receive money from the U.S. government. In fact, I absolutely refuse to accept any money for being an NDN, let alone prove my blood quantum to the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma (or to the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma). I know who I am and I relatively know what my NDN ancestry is, although I don't know all of it because I'm adopted.

I wasn't really talking about receiving government money (wasn't even on my mind) and from your comments I'm not sure you know what I'm talking about. First and foremost I'm ethnically Black-American so I'm speaking about some cultural traits within Black-America (e.g., "good hair" comes from "my Indian side").

But I wasn't speaking about those things alone but a number of other things as well.

Certainly, there are some blacks and some whites that have Amerindian ancestry. But being told stories about Genesis in the Bible or about your family history may not always prove to be accurate.

Knowing I was part black and part white it helped that I actually could visit and observe my black and white family members. Not once in my life have I ever met a single Amerindian relative. Nonetheless, I more or less trusted the oral stories (how could my grandmother or her sister be wrong?) given to me about Indian ancestry on my black side until DNA evidence suggested otherwise.

You think I'm ignorant for giving weight to the DNA results?

It's not unheard of for lies and deceptions--for one reason or another--to be passed down in families. Perhaps my great-grandmother was half white but raised by Creeks or a Creek woman?

My grandmother's response alone is rather telling about the past and the racial turmoil. As I said when I asked her what nation her mother came from she said, "I don't know. My hair was not long like her's so I never asked her."

That is rather telling. My black grandmother felt less than and in the world of the South she came up in it made no difference to know what kind of Indian her mother was if her own hair was "kinky" and not long like her mother's.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

If I'm remembering correctly the the American expat social scientist living in Brazil stated Marina Silva having been raised in the Amazon forest used to identify as a "forest person" which carries the connotation of Indian-ness.

Fair enough. My comment was merely a statement that I have no knowledge of Brazilian laws regarding how to 'officially' categorize someone as 'indian' or 'indigenous'.

Under laws of the U. S., indigenous people have certain rights and privileges in travel between the U. S. and Canada. That's why I know about the laws defining 'indians'. Unless they've been changed again.

In normal life, I'm pretty much of the 'duck' theory. If it looks like a duck, eats what ducks eat, hangs out with other ducks, flies South for the winter, probably ...

Marina Silva has a fascinating story ... But apparently, once she got deeper involved in Brazilian politics she changed her self description to a black woman. Again, to make herself more appealing to the swelling ranks of "I'm black and proud" Brazilians.

Which is where the Elizabeth Warren reference comes in.

Had Elizabeth Warren been raised either on a rez or raised among Amerindians I would consider her Indian if she had any Amerindian ancestry at all.

Other than her claim for political correctness reasons, I think she has neither.

I don't claim any Amerindian ancestry. My father's DNA results which did not detect any Amerindian ancestry ...

Sounds reasonable to me. When asked for my race, I respond 'Celt'. Usually I'm tempted to answer 'Klingon', but they changed the makeup too much.

I'd be better of saying I was half Cherokee Indian. Few people would probably get offended.

I worked with a fellow who was rather proudly self-identified as native American - and I cannot remember at all from what tribe he was. But he was terribly dismissive of Cherokee. He said they were all sell outs to the white man.

But supposedly, my own black family is not the only black family in the USA to discover through DNA results that its unlikely they have any Amerindian ancestry.

Probably not the only family of any color not able to verify such claims in the USA. In my experience, there were more 'Cherokee Princesses' than buffalo in the old west.

... so, you have brown (Arab) Jews and black (Ethiopian) Jews.

I've been told by a social Jew there are two major groups of Jews in America. The Sephardic Jews are from the Middle East, Northern Africa (not including Ethiopia I believe), the Iberian Peninsula and descendants. The other major group are the Ashkenazic from roughly Eastern and Northern Europe.

They were moved out of the traditional area of Israel at various times. The Assyrians moved many of them out prior to the Babylonian captivity (around 700 B. C.) and the final dispersion was in the 70s A. D. when the Roman government tired of putting up with them.

I'm not sure when the Ethiopian faction started, but I think it after the Romans removed all the remainder from Israel. But that's all a different discussion.

 

[NannaNae]

Here is an example of scientism profound ignorance of God's creation and his laws of genetic inheritance.

“You see all of those different ancestries in each of these groups,” Bryc explains. The average African-American genome, for example, is 73.2% African, 24% European, and 0.8% Native American, the team reports online today in The American Journal of Human Genetics. Latinos, meanwhile, carry an average of 18% Native American ancestry, 65.1% European ancestry (mostly from the Iberian Peninsula), and 6.2% African ancestry.

that was from this study.
Genetic study reveals surprising ancestry of many Americans | Science/AAAS | News


the Bible says this about mankind and they prove just how far we are down that rabbit hole we are .

Rom 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Rom 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Rom 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Rom 1:26
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Rom 1:27
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Rom 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Rom 1:29
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Rom 1:30
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Rom 1:31
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Rom 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Skaloop]

Here is an example of scientism profound ignorance of God's creation and his laws of genetic inheritance.

“You see all of those different ancestries in each of these groups,” Bryc explains. The average African-American genome, for example, is 73.2% African, 24% European, and 0.8% Native American, the team reports online today in The American Journal of Human Genetics. Latinos, meanwhile, carry an average of 18% Native American ancestry, 65.1% European ancestry (mostly from the Iberian Peninsula), and 6.2% African ancestry.

that was from this study.
Genetic study reveals surprising ancestry of many Americans | Science/AAAS | News


the Bible says this about mankind and they prove just how far we are down that rabbit hole we are .

Rom 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom 1:22
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Rom 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Rom 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Rom 1:26
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Rom 1:27
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Rom 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Rom 1:29
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Rom 1:30
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Rom 1:31
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Rom 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

What are God's laws of genetic inheritance, and how do the verses you cite indicate how science's findings of genetic distributions are in opposition to God's laws?

Because basically, your post is a bit of scientific information followed by a series of Bible quotes with seemingly no real relationship to the scientific information, and no explanation of what the apparent comparison between the two is meant to be. I mean, are you saying the science is wrong? Are you saying the science is right, which demonstrates who we have moved away from God? Is there something in the Bible quotes that directly contradicts the scientific findings?