Bitterness

[plum]

Do you think that it is common among unchurched/homechurched people you know to be bitter against those who attend church, the church institution itself, or Christianity today?

I've been noticing a lot of anger disguised as many things (sarcasm, critique, rebellion, pride to name a few) from some folks in these two groups. For some reaosn I've noticed it a lot more recently and I wonder why.

Do you think I'm nuts? Are you angry or bitter? Why do you think these feelings might exist? Can there be resolution and healing?

 

[GK]

I've been back and forth on this, myself. At times, I've been really hurt and really bitter. Lately, I've learned to slough it off. I think I woke up one morning and decided I was tired of spending so much energy raging against the machine. Having grown up in the church, I used to think I had to somehow prove my position to them and earn their permission to serve the Kingdom outside the traditional local congregation.

I still have days when I fall back into that trap (and a few months there where I fell so deep into it....), but I remind myself the bitterness is on my end, not theirs. I'm the one with the ability to change that.

 

[mythrainbow]

I have also fallen into bitterness, but I think too fear had a big factor in it. For me it started as bitterness and anger, and then it turned into fear. Fear that I would end up has a hypocritical church member, Fear that I would be forced into a corner if I went back, fear that I had failed.

So then even if I no longer had bitterness towards those who attended the church I avoided them because I had many fears keeping me away.

Although for those who attend church in general I never had bitterness towards. For me it was those of my specific church not anyone else.

Only if things were said that mirrored what I heard in my church that turned me away in the first place did it stir up previous bitternes and anger.

 

[lorali]

I have mixed emotions about this subject. I'm guilty of anger twards most churches in my area, because most of them are all about events around the church and the field trips that they are about to go on. Very little on spreading the word of God. To me they are more like socal events than a house of God. I never leard anything from any of them. I personally think that a chruches main focus should be spreading the word of God and praising Him.

 

[newday]

Do you think that it is common among unchurched/homechurched people you know to be bitter against those who attend church, the church institution itself, or Christianity today?

I've been noticing a lot of anger disguised as many things (sarcasm, critique, rebellion, pride to name a few) from some folks in these two groups. For some reaosn I've noticed it a lot more recently and I wonder why.

Do you think I'm nuts? Are you angry or bitter? Why do you think these feelings might exist? Can there be resolution and healing?

I have to say, beyond the pain, through forgiveness, there is freedom and joy. I was angry for awhile because I was a victim of abuse by the "system." I began to read the Bible and meditate on the goodness of God. I did have to take a look at the part I played also. It wasn't "all them." There were some ungodly motives of my heart also. I do attend a "home church" once a week. We do not discuss other churches. We focus our discussions on Jesus Christ. I experienced a tremendous amount of healing by the grace of God when I wrote my book titled: Bewitched in the Local Church.
No, I am not bitter or angry. God has a purpose for my life and I determined to fulfill my destiny in Him
Because of the Cross,
Newday

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Do you think that it is common among unchurched/homechurched people you know to be bitter against those who attend church, the church institution itself, or Christianity today?

I've been noticing a lot of anger disguised as many things (sarcasm, critique, rebellion, pride to name a few) from some folks in these two groups. For some reaosn I've noticed it a lot more recently and I wonder why.

Do you think I'm nuts? Are you angry or bitter? Why do you think these feelings might exist? Can there be resolution and healing?

I don't think I'm angry or bitter so much as tired of dealing with disappointment all the time and just plain burned out. Everywhere I go if it's not cold-war/cold-shoulder schisms I've walked into not knowing the history it's bland or impersonal, or it's a pastor given to embarrassing tirades (sorry, wouldn't want to bring any friends THERE to introduce them to Christ, no thanks!) or people all cozy in their little "cliques" who either keep you at arms' length and NEVER let you in, or "tease" you with what APPEARS to be inclusiveness but you can never get off the "fringe" and actually INTO the "circle". I don't think I've found ANYWHERE yet that has acknowledged that I have useful spiritual gifts and helped me find an outlet of service for those gifts (coming up with ideas how to use them is NOT one of my gifts, unfortunately) and I just can't seem to find a group of people I can relate to for what I really need which is a deep heart-fellowship and real experience being part of The Body together, growing together in grace, sharing in the Lord together, learning of Him together, experiencing Him together, etc.

I'm burned out and exhausted from searching and trying and hoping and renewing hope and again and again hitting dead ends. I'd like to try finding a small home-church fellowship instead and give THAT a try, but have no idea how or where to locate one near me. I'm not sure I could find the people I really want to find anyway -- the ones who BOTH are rock-solid true to Scripture yet don't believe the gifts of God ended with the apostles (or with some movement a century ago) but are meant for us to seek and use NOW in the Holy Spirit for ministry and service ... I want to be part of something dynamic, something really DOING STUFF for God, and I'm just so freaking disappointed and tired of hoping and looking I could scream.

I guess I'm not worthy to find those I seek to join me in this journey. I guess I will have to resign myself to being alone one way or another -- either by myself at home or all alone in a crowd (e.g. at a church). When the Master asks me where's my buried talent I'll have to tell Him, "I don't know Lord ... ask all those folks over there who had it all sewn up and didn't have room for mine in their plans." You might ask why don't I start something instead of feeling sorry for myself. It's a fair question, but I'm just not a "starter". I'm the guy who comes along and takes what someone else has started to new heights, infusing it with new life and new ideas (if they will let me), but I'm not the "starter of things" myself. That's just the way it is; I cannot pretend to have gifts and talents I don't have in order to use the ones I do.

I'm rambling ... I'm sure I've given everyone here plenty of cause to judge me ... I'll shut up now.

 

[Wisdom's Child]

Excellent questions and topic.

You know it's really hard sometimes to admit to bitterness knowing that it is wrong to feel that way but do so reguardless. I don't know if for me it's more frustration than bitterness actually.

I had a difficult start and because of work requirements I have not had many Sundays available for the "Luxury" of being able to attend a church. Most of the last 25 years of my life has been working nights and weekends till I get frustrated and change jobs, only to just start the cycle afresh. Therefore, most of what I have learned about being a christian has come from self study and watching the "televangelists".

Now I have grown in discipleship to the point where I have my own ministry, and help others start home churches and helps ministries, as well as a street ministry and the occasional tent revival.

My frustration is mainly with Organized Religion and the compeditive "name brand" mentality that is out there, especially in the United States. Frustration, bitterness, and yes even a little bit of envy and jelousy creep in now and again.

I see the "Hireling" pastors making a good living doing what I happily do for free, when I'm not working 60 hours a week providing for a family. I see them choosing hirelings that they can manipulate and control via the paycheck because they have a greater interest in running a profitable "non-profit" buisness that they call a church. I see hundreds of thousands of dollars "invested" in luxurious buildings and facilities ment to massage the ego of rich contributors and give the worldly appearance of successfullness. I feel the social eliteism of the influencial congregational body where if one wants to be successful in local buisness one only needs to be seen in attendance and hang out with the right crowd. Bitterness, yea maybe a little. but I prefer to think more along the lines of righteous indignation.

I wonder how the church got so far off track. It's nothing nowdays like the church at Ephesus, or the one in Corinth or Galacia. Why is that?

They have forgotten that there is only 1 church, the Body of Christ.
Not 26,000 different flavors of pseudo-biblical christan brand names.

Christianity as a whole cannot agree on much at all, they can't even agree from individual to individual about the Nicene Creed.

Frustration, yes, lots of it. But I have learned that "narrow is the path", Organized Religion is definitely the broader road.

That I think is why the home church movement is growing like it is.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Do you think that it is common among unchurched/homechurched people you know to be bitter against those who attend church, the church institution itself, or Christianity today?

Nope . There is hurt amongst *some* . Perhaps , *some* bitterness but not against those who "attend" or Christianity .

I've been noticing a lot of anger disguised as many things (sarcasm, critique, rebellion, pride to name a few) from some folks in these two groups. For some reaosn I've noticed it a lot more recently and I wonder why.

That is interesting . I notice those things when "churched" people talk amongst themselves about those who are "unchurched" or who home church . They criticize their not agreeing with the doctrines they hold . They do use sarcasm when discussing them . They all but damn them for not performing this action for obtaining righteousness . They have great pride that they obey this command while others don't . Of course , they usually consider their denoms or groups as superior to others ( in general - otherwise , why are they exclusive to their group ? ) .

Do you think I'm nuts? Are you angry or bitter? Why do you think these feelings might exist? Can there be resolution and healing?

To be fair , I do understand why you may see these things . But , I do not understand why people don't see those things with the those in the institutional groups .

For those that are hurt , angry , or even bitter , it is because of the abuses of the institutional groups . There are quite a lot . The Lord is able to heal them . However , they still must contend with the attitude of the "churched" towards them .

What you see may be the reaction of those in the "unchurched/home churched" groups to how those in the institutional groups have treated them while in the groups and how they think of them now that they no longer subscribe to their doctrines of being in the groups .

I am not sure what you mean by "resolution" .

 

[CheeseandRice]

I heart JESUS

 

[Rick Otto]

Man was I ever ****ed off when I finaly figured out who the Nicolaitanes are that Jesus said He hates in Revelations.
The Nicolaitanes themselves will hard sell you the story that it is some promiscuous cult leader named Nick, but it don't take much double checkin' to find out it's the guys who make a business out of religion.

I wanted to strangle Constantine for legalizin' Christianity.
I wanted to burn "the whorehouses" down & leave the "pulpit pimps" in a bloody heap.

I've calmed down.

But if you want to learn a great deal about The Reformation & the apostacy of professing Christianity, LazarusUnbound has a lot of good articles.
Watch out for Michael Bunker, though. He's the site host of LazurusUnbound, and Biblical Agrarianism.
Check out his forums. Lots of great information, but very cultish. They tend to pranoia & over-exclusiveness, but much can be gained by lurking.
I got turned on to The Reformation @ his site.
I drove down to Texas to meet him personaly to see if he is for real. I got some witness re: him if ya need.

Here's three of his articles that deal with churchianity
http://lazarusunbound.com/bunker_churchmembership.shtml

http://lazarusunbound.com/bunker_gospelofsatan.shtml

http://lazarusunbound.com/bunker_thegodofyourmind.shtml
Bottom line is we're all human and have to deal with our dark side (flesh), but I think the reason folks who stay with "the herd" aren't susceptible to the same bitterness, having a sense of community to feel safe in.
As long as they(we) feel accepted, we tend to remain comfortable.
Another reason they don't get mad is because they are underneath, apathetic or willfully ignorant regarding the scam they participate in. Sure they don't get sarcastic, caustic, etc., but don't for a minute try & get me to believe they don't rebel, backbite, gossip, control freak, fake piety, and do a host of other equaly & more heinous things than being p.o.'d at apostacy & cranky toward decievers & their gentle boat rowers living the denominational dream.

 

[Rick Otto]

I was really p*ssed off when I learned who the "Nicolaitanes are in Revelation.
They will hard sell you the cover story that it's about a sexualy promiscuous groupe of
people led by a guy named "Nick", but it don't take much diggin to find out its realy guys who make a business of religon.
Constantine legalizing us was one of the worst things that happened to us.

Here's three articles that might help explain:

http://lazarusunbound.com/bunker_thegodofyourmind.shtml

http://lazarusunbound.com/bunker_gospelofsatan.shtml

http://lazarusunbound.com/bunker_churchmembership.shtml

I learned about The Reformation from this guy as well.
You can learn a lot from him, but buyer beware. He is cultish.
Check out his forum & you'll see exactly what I mean.
I got bounced for pointin' that & some other not-so-evident self contradictions
in his conduct.

 

[The Bad Templar]

I'm still bitter about my frustrations with trying to serve God in the institutional church... what's worse is that so many in the church are institutionalised - their faith can only seem to exist within the fishbowl of the organised church and their minds are blinded to any possibilities beyond it.

 

[TheAJKMan]

Do you think that it is common among unchurched/homechurched people you know to be bitter against those who attend church, the church institution itself, or Christianity today?

I've been noticing a lot of anger disguised as many things (sarcasm, critique, rebellion, pride to name a few) from some folks in these two groups. For some reaosn I've noticed it a lot more recently and I wonder why.

Do you think I'm nuts? Are you angry or bitter? Why do you think these feelings might exist? Can there be resolution and healing?

An interesting question there. One that is close to my heart. To my mind a lot revolves around the person in the situation. Let me illustrate with a personal "testimony" of sorts. Folk, who like myself are people who neither blindly accept what is preached, nor are we confined to the comfortable "boxes" others are tend to get sidelined. I left the church out of sheer frustration, and out of that if I am honest some anger and I guess to be brutally honest even resentment. How do I deal with it, well, to put it simply, one day at a time. I haven't been a member of a church for almost 10years now. Have visited a few, had some feloowship here and there, but no firm committment from my side to any local body or church group. I find that this works for me. Is it the ideal....... not really, being a part of a group on a more permanent is the ideal. I have yet to find a church that will accept oddballs like me. I probably need to look at myself some too here Hope that helps you some..... and now I'm going to read some more of the other replies in this thread

 

[WAB]

I'm still bitter about my frustrations with trying to serve God in the institutional church... what's worse is that so many in the church are institutionalised - their faith can only seem to exist within the fishbowl of the organised church and their minds are blinded to any possibilities beyond it.

You are not alone... however, we become members of the true Church by means of a personal relationship with our Lord, not any institutionalised gathering/group. Hope the following helps some...

In Acts 8:23, we find in the discourse between Peter and Simon (who was a sorcerer prior to believing in the Lord and becoming a Christian), the following words: "For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity." (KJV).

Hebrews 12:12-15 says: "Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled." (KJV).

It is possible that "...the gall of bitterness..." has a narcotic or mind-numbing or pain allaying effect. The reason this might be so, is that the same Greek word is used in Matthew 27:34, where in fulfillment of the prophecy found in Psalm 69:21, those who were about to crucify our Lord Jesus Christ "...gave Him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when He had tasted thereof, He would not drink."

The English word "gall" is taken from the Greek word chole’, which means: "bile, something of a greenish hue; by analogy: poison, or an anodyne." (from Strong’s).

The definition of "anodyne" is: "any medicine which allays pain, or causes sleep, as an opiate, paragoric, narcotic, &c." (from Webster’s dictionary).

Of course Jesus refused that narcotic, as He was to experience in a conscious manner all of the judgement of a righteous God upon sin, that rightly should have fallen upon us.

If one resorts to bitterness (or anger) when faced with (say) a factual refutation of a long cherished idea, might not that bitterness against the evidence (or against the person presenting the evidence), act in a mind-numbing way?

Consider that many who call themselves Christians, resort to anger or bitterness against brothers in the Lord if that brother offers evidence of error in a position or belief system of the other. This may account for the fact that often, Christians who are professional geologists scoff at the plain, straightforward presentation of evidence for a young earth found in Genesis and other places in Scripture, and even legitimate geological evidence.

Of course they give lip service to Genesis, but only in a "spiritualized" rather than a literal sense. They adamantly refuse to see that Genesis does indeed proclaim a young biosphere and a world-wide flood.

The same may be said for those in the KJV Only camp. They refuse to see the volumes of evidence against their position, and engage in vicious attacks upon brothers in Christ who offer that evidence.

The above examples (and others), suggest that it may even approach being a principle, that those in error, or with the least, or weakest, evidence to corroborate their position, often resort to anger and/or personal (ad-hominem) attacks in response to those who oppose or are critical of their position or teaching. Of course this attitude is diametrically opposed to the love Christians are supposed to display towards each other, and often ruins opportunities to share the gospel.

This attitude of anger and bitterness was certainly the case with the unbelieving Jews and idolaters when the truth was presented to them by Stephen in Acts 6 & 7, and by Paul and Barnabas in Acts 13 & 14, and it is true today in the case of evolutionists who ridicule creationists for their beliefs in spite of the evidence for creation ex nihilo. And it appears the same holds true among Christians!

In the original article, there follows an example of the serious results of allowing the gall of bitterness to gain a place in our thought proccesses. I deleted it, for it was rather personal.

Shalom... W.A.B.

 

[ZiSunka]

Do you think that it is common among unchurched/homechurched people you know to be bitter against those who attend church, the church institution itself, or Christianity today?

I've been noticing a lot of anger disguised as many things (sarcasm, critique, rebellion, pride to name a few) from some folks in these two groups. For some reaosn I've noticed it a lot more recently and I wonder why.

Do you think I'm nuts? Are you angry or bitter? Why do you think these feelings might exist? Can there be resolution and healing?

I think for a lot of Americans who don't go to a traditional church, the reason they don't go is they have something against traditional church. That may show in their posts.

As a general rule though, I don't think home churchers are bitter against churchgoers.

 

[Rick Otto]

I agree with what you're saying about the gall effect, but if you would, address Wisdom's Child's excellent point re: righteous indignation?
Give us an equaly good overview of the other side of the coin!

 

[TheAJKMan]

WAB, you make and interesting argument there. Though I'm gonna have to read it again when I'm not trying to prevent my head hitting the keyboard from sheer tiredness

TheAJKMan

 

[WAB]

WAB, you make and interesting argument there. Though I'm gonna have to read it again when I'm not trying to prevent my head hitting the keyboard from sheer tiredness

TheAJKMan

Could it be the repeated banging of your head against the wall? Nah... guess smilies don't count...

Seriously, have given much thought and prayer to the subject, and unfortunately, there are numerous examples spread throughout the forum.

No one could/can face the degree of opposition that our Lord faced while walking on earth; yet He demonstrated His love over and over (such as weeping over Jerusalem), but did not hesitate to declare the truth under any and every circumstance.

Shalom... WAB

 

[WAB]

I agree with what you're saying about the gall effect, but if you would, address Wisdom's Child's excellent point re: righteous indignation?
Give us an equaly good overview of the other side of the coin!

Will do... hang tough!

Shalom... WAB

 

[WAB]

I agree with what you're saying about the gall effect, but if you would, address Wisdom's Child's excellent point re: righteous indignation?
Give us an equaly good overview of the other side of the coin!

Will do... hang tough!

Shalom... WAB

Sorry about the duplicate... the first one disappeared from sight until now...???