Bishop of Antioch...

[Rechtgläubig]

Can anyone provide me with documentation regarding the Bishop of Antioch as a successor to St. Peter?

Thank you in advance!

 

[brewmama]

Well, this is quite the popular topic. Who put that link up listing all the bishops down from St. Peter earlier? I'll see if I can find it.

Susannah, it was that conversation between you and geocajun!

 

[brewmama]

here it is:

http://www.antiochian.org/667

 

[Rechtgläubig]

Thank you so much Brewmama!

If anyone else has something to post I would be interested in reading it.

 

[Polycarp1]

Great stuff! Two unrelated questions:

1. In the link that Brewmama provided, it says:

See elevated to dignity of a Patriarchate by the Council of Chalcedon in 451

From what I recall of learning early church history, would it not be more accurate to say that it was a Patriarchate from earliest times, and that Chalcedon formally recognized that, acknowledging what was already true?

2. Would anyone have or be able to find the linkage from John the Beloved Disciple through Polycarp and Irenaeus to Theodore of Tarsus, who was sent as Archbishop of Canterbury? I trust it's obvious why that lineage, which I once saw posted on a church wall but no longer have access to, is of importance to me.

 

[Suzannah]

There was a thread about all this awhile ago...i will see if I can find it. Philip, I think, or was it Rilian, had posted a list of links that showed all the succession for all the Churches.....give me some time!

 

[MariaRegina]

Great stuff! Two unrelated questions:

1. In the link that Brewmama provided, it says:

From what I recall of learning early church history, would it not be more accurate to say that it was a Patriarchate from earliest times, and that Chalcedon formally recognized that, acknowledging what was already true?

2. Would anyone have or be able to find the linkage from John the Beloved Disciple through Polycarp and Irenaeus to Theodore of Tarsus, who was sent as Archbishop of Canterbury? I trust it's obvious why that lineage, which I once saw posted on a church wall but no longer have access to, is of importance to me.

Truly the Church in Ireland and Britain was Apostolic and Orthodox from the beginning. I studied the History of Language in Britain and the early monastics sent to Britain spoke Greek and wrote in Greek, later on they did write in Latin, French and Old English. In fact if it wasn't for monasticism, English wouldn't be a written language. The Orthodox monks gave an alphabet to the English much like the Orthodox monks St. Cyril and Methodious gave the Cyrillic alphabet to the Rus.

P.S. They found an early Rune stone in America dating before Columbus and it told of Christ. So, Columbus wasn't the first white man to come to America - the Orthodox Celts were.

 

[Rechtgläubig]

There was a thread about all this awhile ago...i will see if I can find it. Philip, I think, or was it Rilian, had posted a list of links that showed all the succession for all the Churches.....give me some time!

If you can find that link let me know Suzannah.

 

[Philip]

There was a thread about all this awhile ago...i will see if I can find it. Philip, I think, or was it Rilian, had posted a list of links that showed all the succession for all the Churches.....give me some time!

It comes from St Irenaeus of Lyons writings.

He first traced the Succession in Rome:

The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. [Against Heresy 3:3:3]​

Then Ephesus and Smyrna:

But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried [on earth] a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffering martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true. To these things all the Asiatic Churches testify, as do also those men who have succeeded Polycarp down to the present time,-a man who was of much greater weight, and a more stedfast witness of truth, than Valentinus, and Marcion, and the rest of the heretics. He it was who, coming to Rome in the time of Anicetus caused many to turn away from the aforesaid heretics to the Church of God, proclaiming that he had received this one and sole truth from the apostles,-that, namely, which is handed down by the Church. There are also those who heard from him that John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and perceiving Cerinthus within, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, exclaiming, "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within." And Polycarp himself replied to Marcion, who met him on one occasion, and said, "Dost thou know me? ""I do know thee, the first-born of Satan." Such was the horror which the apostles and their disciples had against holding even verbal communication with any corrupters of the truth; as Paul also says, "A man that is an heretic, after the first and second admonition, reject; knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." There is also a very powerful10 Epistle of Polycarp written to the Philippians, from which those who choose to do so, and are anxious about their salvation, can learn the character of his faith, and the preaching of the truth. Then, again, the Church in Ephesus, founded by Paul, and having John remaining among them permanently until the times of Trajan, is a true witness of the tradition of the apostles.[Against Heresy 3:3:4]​

He then goes on to say that the Apostolic Faith is handed down by all the Church were the Apostles taugh:

Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth: so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life.11 For she is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account are we bound to avoid them, but to make choice of the thing pertaining to the Church with the utmost diligence, and to lay hold of the tradition of the truth. For how stands the case? Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question12 among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient Churches with which the apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings? Would it not be necessary, [in that case,] to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they did commit the Churches?[Against Heresy 3:4:1]​

 

[MariaRegina]

It comes from St Irenaeus of Lyons writings.

He first traced the Succession in Rome:

The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. [Against Heresy 3:3:3]​

Then Ephesus and Smyrna:

But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried [on earth] a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffering martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true. To these things all the Asiatic Churches testify, as do also those men who have succeeded Polycarp down to the present time,-a man who was of much greater weight, and a more stedfast witness of truth, than Valentinus, and Marcion, and the rest of the heretics. He it was who, coming to Rome in the time of Anicetus caused many to turn away from the aforesaid heretics to the Church of God, proclaiming that he had received this one and sole truth from the apostles,-that, namely, which is handed down by the Church. There are also those who heard from him that John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and perceiving Cerinthus within, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, exclaiming, "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within." And Polycarp himself replied to Marcion, who met him on one occasion, and said, "Dost thou know me? ""I do know thee, the first-born of Satan." Such was the horror which the apostles and their disciples had against holding even verbal communication with any corrupters of the truth; as Paul also says, "A man that is an heretic, after the first and second admonition, reject; knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." There is also a very powerful10 Epistle of Polycarp written to the Philippians, from which those who choose to do so, and are anxious about their salvation, can learn the character of his faith, and the preaching of the truth. Then, again, the Church in Ephesus, founded by Paul, and having John remaining among them permanently until the times of Trajan, is a true witness of the tradition of the apostles.[Against Heresy 3:3:4]​

He then goes on to say that the Apostolic Faith is handed down by all the Church were the Apostles taugh:

Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth: so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life.11 For she is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account are we bound to avoid them, but to make choice of the thing pertaining to the Church with the utmost diligence, and to lay hold of the tradition of the truth. For how stands the case? Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question12 among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient Churches with which the apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings? Would it not be necessary, [in that case,] to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they did commit the Churches?[Against Heresy 3:4:1]​

Some interesting thoughts ...

Interesting that we have the icon of St. Peter and St. Paul founding the Church. And St. Irenaeus doesn't mention St. Peter by name, but uses the term "the Apostles." And also according to St. Irenaeus, St. Linus was the first Bishop of Rome, not Peter. The laying on of hands to ordain and consecrate a man to the office of Bishop is done by at least three Bishops, so it is possible that both St. Peter and St. Paul consecrated St. Linus as a Bishop, otherwise why would we have the icon of St. Peter and St. Paul founding the Church?