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SDA's believe that Lord Jesus is Archangel Michael, but He is still God. Being the Head of angels does not in anyway deny His equality with the Father. This is very different from JW's belief.I am honestly not sure exactly how prevalent it is among SDA, but I know Doug Batchelor (a very popular and influential SDA minister) has a book on it and I have heard him preach on that topic.
Sounds like they stopped being Binitarian a long time ago. The literature I got in the mail about the HS being only energy and power must be from JW's then.Later, in 1897, Ellen White published a pamphlet declaring the Holy Spirit "the third person of the Godhead".
However, others believe that the spirit is not put into a body until the moment of birth, so even IF it was universally agreed that the spirit alone is the person, it would not be a cut and dry argument concerning a physical body.
Different denominations also differ on what makes a person. Some would insist that it is some combination of spirit and body, and then there are arguments over what a "soul" is and if it is the same as a person's spirit or if the spirit in a person is really just the breath of God that is removed and goes back to him upon the death of the body.
See, it all can get very, very complicated, but even still, it really doesn't compare to the "personhood" of the God-head because "person" in the Trinitarian sense is just a word used to more easily describe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three separate gods, but still One God. The "personhood" of a human being (or other living being, or corporation) are all very different things.
I don't know. However, I believe that we are made in God's image to help us better understand God. We are body, soul and spirit. Genesis tells us that in the creation of the 1st man God formed the body first, breathed in the breath of life, then the man became a living soul. If the birthing process follows the pattern of creation, then the cells would divide to create the body, followed by the spirit entering the body, and a soul would be the final part of the creation of a person. We usually think of the soul as being the person.
Of course, this is just speculation. The life of the father is in the sperm and the life of the mother is in the egg. We are so used to thinking only in terms of the physical we talk of DNA. But how does the DNA get its pattern for the blue print in the first place? Could it be that a little of the spirit of the father and of the mother combine together to guide the zygote process?
I have no interest in starting a debate on abortion, but the mystery of life captivates my thoughts.
These are not Christian theories.Some groups do not believe in the existence of a separate "soul" per se, and believe that a "soul" is just the combination of a physical body and God's spirit, or breath, and if that breath is taken away, the physical body returns to dust and there is no "person" at that point. . . . Others believe there is no such thing as a spirit or soul and that it is all just a function of the physical body and once the physical body is gone, that's it. . . . And we're not even getting into the whole "physical life is all just an illusion" type of philosophies where ALL is spirit!
Why are these theories being mentioned in a Christian forum when they shouldn't affect the worldview of Christians?
These are not Christian theories.
Many do hold that Jesus and Michael (archangel) are the same person, but I don't think that is a dogmatic belief.
This is a fascinating video. Thank you.There was an early belief in Second temple Judaism called "The Two Heavenly powers"
Agreed, it is not the same belief even if there are some similarities.SDA's believe that Lord Jesus is Archangel Michael, but He is still God. Being the Head of angels does not in anyway deny His equality with the Father. This is very different from JW's belief.
Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man.However, others believe that the spirit is not put into a body until the moment of birth, so even IF it was universally agreed that the spirit alone is the person, it would not be a cut and dry argument concerning a physical body.
AlexDofTX said previously:
Abortion was not my point. My point is that our person-hood is in our spirits, not our bodies. So even a zygote is still a person.
Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man.
Fully man - body and spirit.
Any Christian who can't determine from the scriptures in which "trimester" the incarnation took place might as well turn in his (or her) Bible so someone else can use it.
I know of no Christian in the history of the Church, who has even considered the subject for one moment, who believes that the incarnation took place anytime other than at the conception of Jesus Christ....there are many other opinions from a Christian (and scriptural) point of view that differs from yours, even among those Christians who agree that Jesus Christ is both fully human and fully divine.
Nor did I say otherwise.What makes a human being a person has absolutely nothing to do with the definition of the three equal "persons" of the Trinity.
God has no "parts". Nor is He necessarily made up of 3 persons. Many good Christians question the concept of the Trinity and even reject it outright.If you don't like using the word "person", then I've seen "parts" used just as sufficiently to describe how the Trinity is composed. They are not three separate gods, but One God.
Obviously.Regular human beings who are not also God are NOT fully human and fully divine.
Obviously.God in any of his parts was *never* a created being.
I know of no Christian in the history of the Church, who has even considered the subject for one moment, who believes that the incarnation took place anytime other than at the conception of Jesus Christ.
Since Jesus Christ became fully human at conception - so does every other man - Him sharing in our humanity in the exact way as everyone else.
Any round about compromise with abortion by a Christian that says that the spirit enters a man anytime other than at conception has to deal with that or reject the testimony of the scriptures.
I'm just sayin. Whether that describes you or not - is between you and God.
Nor did I say otherwise.
God has no parts. Nor is He necessarily 3 persons. Many well grounded Christians do not subscribe to the concept of 3 persons in the Godhead. They just aren't allowed to talk much about it here.
Obviously.
Obviously.
Which verses are these? What's the evidence they're not in the original?Other than some verses questionably inserted after their original writing, we don't have much support in the Bible for the Trinity concept.
I see what you said as evidence for the Holy Trinity, unless you have a Modalistic interpretation.We do have strong support for the unique unity between God the Father and Jesus, and that testimony came from both of Them. We also have strong support for truth that the Holy Spirit was sent from Them and has the role to guide us toward Them with reminders of what They said.
My information is that Adventists are Binitarian. That is they do not consider the Holy Spirit a person. Is this still true?
Which verses are these? What's the evidence they're not in the original?
I see what you said as evidence for the Holy Trinity, unless you have a Modalistic interpretation.
CT Russel established the Watch Tower Tract Society in 1881. I think it is probable that his group which developed into JW's attracted the Arian elements in the Adventist group leaving the Adventist movement more Trinitarian.This is truly a remarkable development, especially given the strongly Arian and semi-Arian views that were so dominant in the Adventism of her day. Such views were even held by her strong-minded, forthright husband, James White, until fairly late in his life.
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