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Bill Clintons last day pardons
- Thread starter Job_38
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- May 18, 2002
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I have seen that list previously. Clinton was something else. He and ole' Hillary even attempted to take furniture(returned shortly after taken) from the White House when they left, yep the Clintons were truly a pair.
GySgt James
GySgt James
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I never supported Clinton (I voted against him both times), but I don't see what you are reading from that story.
Everyone who gets pardoned committed a crime, just like everyone on that list committed a crime. That's the definition of a pardon. So, I see nothing distasteful there.
The only other thing I can see is that you object that he may have benefitted from the pardons. Well, the pardon is always above the law (that's why it is a pardon) and it is never free from political considerations, and thus it is never free from personal gain. Nixon granted pardons for his own political benefit to gain the support of the Teamsters.
Pardons are what they are. I don't know whether or not Clinton's were more distasteful than others, but that story didn't illuminate the matter for me.
Everyone who gets pardoned committed a crime, just like everyone on that list committed a crime. That's the definition of a pardon. So, I see nothing distasteful there.
The only other thing I can see is that you object that he may have benefitted from the pardons. Well, the pardon is always above the law (that's why it is a pardon) and it is never free from political considerations, and thus it is never free from personal gain. Nixon granted pardons for his own political benefit to gain the support of the Teamsters.
Pardons are what they are. I don't know whether or not Clinton's were more distasteful than others, but that story didn't illuminate the matter for me.
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The crime is that Americans have sunk to such a level of intellectual depravity that they will elect such a pair to the White House and then repeat the mistake and justify their actions just because they are a member a of a particular political party.
"I tried pot once but I didn't inhale". Yeah sure! Their daughter is adopted too.
"I tried pot once but I didn't inhale". Yeah sure! Their daughter is adopted too.
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LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
Your point is what??? That Bush is as bad or worse than Bill Clinton??? Yeah, so???
Guess what. If a man loves a woman and is not willing to defend her with his life, he does not deserve her. If a man is to yellow to defend his country, he is certainly NOT qualified to serve as head of it's military.
You cannot defend Clinton by pointing the finger at someone else.
It is not required to serve in the military of this country. But it is dang sure required to be willing. But when you have a communist sympathizer like J William Fulbright to get you excused so you can go to MOSCOW and demonstrate against this country while smoking pot (though never inhaling), because you are a coward, you should be strung up from a tree on the White House Lawn; not occupy the White House.
Your point is what??? That Bush is as bad or worse than Bill Clinton??? Yeah, so???
Guess what. If a man loves a woman and is not willing to defend her with his life, he does not deserve her. If a man is to yellow to defend his country, he is certainly NOT qualified to serve as head of it's military.
You cannot defend Clinton by pointing the finger at someone else.
It is not required to serve in the military of this country. But it is dang sure required to be willing. But when you have a communist sympathizer like J William Fulbright to get you excused so you can go to MOSCOW and demonstrate against this country while smoking pot (though never inhaling), because you are a coward, you should be strung up from a tree on the White House Lawn; not occupy the White House.
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As I've already indicated in the other thread, I'm not the least bit interested in defending Clinton. I don't blame you a bit for disliking him; I don't either. My point is simply that Republican politicians have committed comparable transgressions. Thus, it was sufficient for me to indicate that other presidents (including Bush Sr. have abused the power of the pardon). With respect to the issue of draft dodging, Clinton is hardly unique on that score either. I don't recall Republicans objecting too much to Quayle, who as much as confessed to dodging at one point. Dubya secured his own way out of Vietnam by pulling strings as well to get in the National Gaurd. (And I fail to see how the political orientation of the strings pulled affects the morality of pulling them). Cheney received, what 5 deferments while he was in college, but that hasn't stopped him from acting as a hawk, nor has it stopped anyone from celebrating his contributions to wars in which others were fought. I'm sorry, but there are a number of Republicans that are just as deserving of the title draft dodger as Clinton. We can hang them all if you like, I'd be happy to give you Clinton, if you will give me Dubya, Quale, and Cheney.
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I will give you Quale and Dubya! Not because, as you put it, Quale is a draft dodger, because the Guard is REAL military service and in time of war your donkey can be suddenly in the jungles like anyone else. Bubya is hardly worth a rope. Come to think of neither is clinton. Hmmm. I think we should just hold a gun on then and force then to beat themselves to death.
Quale is certainly dumb enough.
But I will not give you Cheney. He, of that group, does have a certain socially redeeming value.
Besides if I gace you Cheney, that would leave George alone and unchecked in the White House. Do you really want that?
Quale is certainly dumb enough.
But I will not give you Cheney. He, of that group, does have a certain socially redeeming value.
Besides if I gace you Cheney, that would leave George alone and unchecked in the White House. Do you really want that?
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Cheney is competent, I'll give you that. I'd take him over Dubya, so I suppose it's a fair trade. Goodnight Gerry.
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At least he didn't do anything close to what Bush did - pardon all the conspirators in the Iran-Contra affair, even while charges did not exist or hadn't been filed yet, so that none of them could be compelled to testify.
Funny how conservatives are so obsessed over Clinton, yet they overlook the private little war being run out of a corner office of the Pentagon, and the arms-for-hostages trading that was going on. Illegal sex is somehow more scandalous that someone conducting foreign policy without the consent of the president, and trading human lives for military hardware.
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- May 18, 2002
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I as a Conservative am not obsessed with anything.
As a Vietnam Vet I am completely disgusted with Clinton's draft dodger status and being a war protester on foreign soil. The last insult to injury to the Vietnam Vet by Clinton was going to Vietnam prior to his leaving office. This was totally unacceptable with the unresolved POW/ MIA issue.
GySgt James
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Yes, you are, Gunny. Like most ultra-conservatives, Bill Clinton just sets you into a lathering mess.
1. I know several Vietnam vets who wish they had protested more, instead of just doing what they were told. But I suppose their opinions don't count, do they.
2. The Vietnam war was a mistake, and should have been protested more widely. That is not the fault of the men/women who fought - it is the fault of the leadership. The war was uncosntitutional, the selective service process was unfair, it allowed for people to exempt themselves on economic grounds, it was fought over a stupid concept (the "domino theory"), and to support American corporations. The blood of American men and women is worth far more than any corporation, and costlier than a broken political theory. I applaud the people who protested and disobeyed - that's the only way that an illegal war can get stopped. When the leaders think they can get away with anything, that's exactly what they'll try. Similar to what Ashcroft and Dubya are trying to do now, actually.....
3. I notice that you had nothing to say about George Dubya Bush skipping out on his service in Vietnam. Wonder why you missed that little fact...
Nonsense. We still have unaccounted soldiers in Korea and in Germany. Should we also avoid going to those countries as well?
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A common myth is that the soldiers protetested the WAR, they protested fighting in it. When the draft was ended, there was less protest. Because I found it strange that they wanted "Our boys back!" and when they returned, we saw the soldiers, the brave men who served there country bravely, spat upon and cursed at.
3. I notice that you had nothing to say about George Dubya Bush skipping out on his service in Vietnam. Wonder why you missed that little fact
No, he did not. Even though he served in the Texas Air National Guard, he still served.
3. I notice that you had nothing to say about George Dubya Bush skipping out on his service in Vietnam. Wonder why you missed that little fact
No, he did not. Even though he served in the Texas Air National Guard, he still served.
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