Biblically: Why is homosexuality wrong?

Phinehas2 · Apr 23, 2008

Well now this is a good point ...
"A pair of twins who were adopted by separate families as babies got married without knowing they were brother and sister, a peer told the House of Lords."
The UK law is potentially changing, with Christian voices roundly being attacked by all and sundry including liberal Christians, whereby the Father does not need to be named or identified in cases such as IVF tratment etc.
Therefore such cases of incest may again arise and no-one knows .... incest will consequently become and redundant law and not seen as error ...if one cant enforce it
And so the very events of Sodom gradually start taking place again as the denial of Sodom increases.

KCKID · Apr 23, 2008

Phinehas2 said:
Dear KCKID
Well the evidence says he does, you merely dispute the evidence yet there is no countenance of it, so on what basis do you not know?

You don't know either, Phinehas. You trust that the Bible is divine but you can offer no proof other THAN the Bible that this is so. However, I've had no direct revelation from God that He disapproves of homosexuality and nor have you I suspect. Why doesn't God communicate personally with us over this issue so that there is no doubt? I mean, really? Failing that we have words in a book that were written by man. Meanwhile we have many REAL people here on planet earth who are 'stuck' with an orientation that they never asked for and God doesn't seem to give a hoot other than to be 'offended by it.'

Phinehas2 said:
Well ok but Gods wisdom is greater than ours dont you agree? Furthermore again Gods word say when we sin sexually, unlike other sins, it defiles our own bodies which are temples of the Holy Spirit. Is it that you question things because you dont know Gods word well enough?

I haven't seen God's wisdom recently, Phinehas. I only hear you and others use lots of very rehearsed rhetoric about it. I see a very cruel and arrogant God in the OT and the fact that I'm offended by this actually arouses anger in those who insist on how wise and loving a being He is. I'm afraid I DO know God's word - it's 'be obedient to me or I'll destroy you!' Is that about it, Phinehas?

Jesus is another matter. Is He REALLY related to God? I find that hard to believe. Anyway, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. He said a heap of things about heterosexual sexual sins. He said a heap of things about hypocrisy, those who feign godliness, turning the other cheek, loving one's enemy, caring for the poor, the sick, the imprisoned . . .

And, even though the words of Jesus were also written by man they seem to register more in my heart than do the words of God. Jesus and God are two seperate entities as far as I'm concerned. It's only in recent months that I've begun to feel this way. I think I've probably been negatively affected by some of the Christians I encounter on Christian forums as well as those I encounter at church. The venom that comes from the keyboards of some under the pretext of 'love' is quite unnerving. If such things are from those who claim to be the representatives of the word of God then I'm not sure I want to know.

Phinehas2 · Apr 23, 2008

Dear KCKID,

You don't know either, Phinehas. You trust that the Bible is divine but you can offer no proof other THAN the Bible that this is so.

wheras you evidently don’t. Yes I trust in Jesus Christ according to His Biblical testimony. So I do know, if God doesn’t exist that’s another matter.

However, I've had no direct revelation from God that He disapproves of homosexuality and nor have you I suspect.

How would you know it was from God when you have the revelation given to humans by God through His Son Jesus Christ.? How do you know Fred Phelps hasn’t been given a direct revelation form God and you haven’t?

Why doesn't God communicate personally with us over this issue so that there is no doubt?

He does, it is called the Holy Spirit. God has communicated directly to humankind through His Son Jesus Christ and directly to us by His Holy Spirit.

Meanwhile we have many REAL people here on planet earth who are 'stuck' with an orientation that they never asked for and God doesn't seem to give a hoot other than to be 'offended by it.'

Their problem is they think they have problems. There are millions who are disabled, millions who are starving, homeless, persecuted. I think you have an issue with God.

I haven't seen God's wisdom recently, Phinehas. I only hear you and others use lots of very rehearsed rhetoric about it.

What none of it, or just the bits you don’t like about same-sex sex? You have seen God’s wisdom presented to you, Jesus Christ’s teaching is spirit and life, you just haven’t believed it.

I see a very cruel and arrogant God in the OT and the fact that I'm offended by this actually arouses anger in those who insist on how wise and loving a being He is. I'm afraid I DO know God's word - it's 'be obedient to me or I'll destroy you!' Is that about it, Phinehas?

No that’s isn’t quite right, God said don’t eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge or you will die, Humankind did and have been blaming God for it ever since. God doesn’t want anyone to perish, so He has sent His Son to die and rise again.

What I think the difference is, is that if we don’t see ourselves as deserving death we cant accept what an exceptional act of love God has done through Jesus Christ. When I look around the world and at myself I know we all are not good.

Jesus is another matter. Is He REALLY related to God? I find that hard to believe.

Well Christians believe He is God.
.

Anyway, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. He said a heap of things about heterosexual sexual sins.

He never mentioned heterosexuality, we only know what he referred to is what society calls heterosexuality and homosexuality. Funny how you think he said nothing about homosexuality but a lot about heterosexuality when He mentioned neither word. No alas moichos and pornos are adultery and fornication outside marriage which are both heterosexuality and homosexuality.

Jesus and God are two seperate entities as far as I'm concerned.

Then that is marcionism which isn’t Christianity.

Floatingaxe · Apr 23, 2008

Phinehas2 said:
Well now this is a good point ...
"A pair of twins who were adopted by separate families as babies got married without knowing they were brother and sister, a peer told the House of Lords."
The UK law is potentially changing, with Christian voices roundly being attacked by all and sundry including liberal Christians, whereby the Father does not need to be named or identified in cases such as IVF tratment etc.
Therefore such cases of incest may again arise and no-one knows .... incest will consequently become and redundant law and not seen as error ...if one cant enforce it
And so the very events of Sodom gradually start taking place again as the denial of Sodom increases.

Of course, the sound voices of Christians always come forth. Light of the world, salt of the earth! Thank God! Without them this world would be black as night.

RMDY · Sep 16, 2008

I felt I had to bring this up again:

Question: Why is it wrong?

Answer: Homosexuality is sexual immorality. It defiles a person and defiles God's temple, which is your body. God has called us to use our bodies for honoring God, not using it for fleshly lusts.

3rddaymessenger · Sep 23, 2008

Have you ever seen an upside-down tree? You know, with the roots up in the air and the branches and leaves under the ground? Probably not.
Have you ever seen a two-headed bird? Or a dog with two tails? If you have...it would be called a freak of nature. A freak of nature is something that is contrary to Gods original plan. The way that things would be if mankind - with its fallen nature of sin - had not interfered and messed things up.
That is basically why homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus 20:13). Because it is against nature. It is a perversion of Gods original plan and His intention for the human race. Male and female created He them. And then God commanded them to be fruitful and multiply. (Gen. 1: 27, 28)
Obviously two men or two women in their perverted and unclean sexual activities can not procreate. In such an unnatural relationship they have to depend on artificial and surrogate means to have children to raise. Even then, the children are in an awful situation where they cant benefit from the Godly union of a man and woman, where the male and female characteristics are present to nurture them in a Godly and balanced way.
Some would like to defend homosexuality and lesbians by saying that it is not a choice, they were born that way. Well, whether they were born that way or not, satan still interfered with natures original process and perverted the outcome (as he did in the garden of Eden). Satan either messes with genetics before birth or causes abuse and trauma, so that these perversions enter a person at some point in their life.
You were also born with a sin nature (Psalms 51:5), but you still must repent and receive Christ as your Lord and Savior to be forgiven and set free. Provision has been made by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ...to right all wrongs, to restore to the original pattern, to transform all perversions to their proper condition. So you are held accountable to that God-given provision...to be healed, restored and made whole. To either receive it and benefit by it, or reject it and suffer the consequences. That is now your choice!
You see, some people can be born with a certain abnormality, handicap, or disease, but we are certainly looking for a cure for them arent we? Because we dont accept it as normal. It is the same with the vile and perverted lifestyle of homosexuality...it is as unclean and deadly as a cancer. Whether youre born with it or contract it afterwards. And there is a cure...which is Forgiveness, Healing and Restoration in the Name of Jesus Christ - by the Power and Love of God. Acknowledge your sin AS SIN in the face of Truth and Gods Mercy, and He will be there to set you free and make you a productive and Godly person in His kingdom.
Remember Sodom and Gomorrah. It is still Repent or Perish! Is this hate literature? Absolutely! God hates SIN! (That's why He provided the way for healing and deliverance.)

Andreusz · Sep 23, 2008

JohnChapter14 said:
I felt I had to bring this up again:

Question: Why is it wrong?

Answer: Homosexuality is sexual immorality. It defiles a person and defiles God's temple, which is your body. God has called us to use our bodies for honoring God, not using it for fleshly lusts.

In other words, it's wrong because it's wrong? Thank you, that's made it so much clearer to me.

Andreusz · Sep 23, 2008

3rddaymessenger said:
Have you ever seen an upside-down tree? You know, with the roots up in the air and the branches and leaves under the ground? Probably not.
Have you ever seen a two-headed bird? Or a dog with two tails? If you have...it would be called a freak of nature.A freak of nature is something that is contrary to Gods original plan. The way that things would be if mankind - with its fallen nature of sin - had not interfered and messed things up.
That is basically why homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus 20:13). Because it is against nature. It is a perversion of Gods original plan and His intention for the human race. Male and female created He them. And then God commanded them to be fruitful and multiply. (Gen. 1: 27, 28)
Obviously two men or two women in their perverted and unclean sexual activities can not procreate. In such an unnatural relationship they have to depend on artificial and surrogate means to have children to raise. Even then, the children are in an awful situation where they cant benefit from the Godly union of a man and woman, where the male and female characteristics are present to nurture them in a Godly and balanced way.
Some would like to defend homosexuality and lesbians by saying that it is not a choice, they were born that way. Well, whether they were born that way or not, satan still interfered with natures original process and perverted the outcome (as he did in the garden of Eden). Satan either messes with genetics before birth or causes abuse and trauma, so that these perversions enter a person at some point in their life.
You were also born with a sin nature (Psalms 51:5), but you still must repent and receive Christ as your Lord and Savior to be forgiven and set free. Provision has been made by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ...to right all wrongs, to restore to the original pattern, to transform all perversions to their proper condition. So you are held accountable to that God-given provision...to be healed, restored and made whole. To either receive it and benefit by it, or reject it and suffer the consequences. That is now your choice!
You see, some people can be born with a certain abnormality, handicap, or disease, but we are certainly looking for a cure for them arent we? Because we dont accept it as normal. It is the same with the vile and perverted lifestyle of homosexuality...it is as unclean and deadly as a cancer. Whether youre born with it or contract it afterwards. And there is a cure...which is Forgiveness, Healing and Restoration in the Name of Jesus Christ - by the Power and Love of God. Acknowledge your sin AS SIN in the face of Truth and Gods Mercy, and He will be there to set you free and make you a productive and Godly person in His kingdom.
Remember Sodom and Gomorrah. It is still Repent or Perish! Is this hate literature? Absolutely! God hates SIN! (That's why He provided the way for healing and deliverance.)

How would you feel if someone told you that the love you feel for your wife or girlfriend is satanic and that you must give it up?

EnemyPartyII · Sep 23, 2008

JohnChapter14 said:
I felt I had to bring this up again:

Question: Why is it wrong?

Answer: Homosexuality is sexual immorality. It defiles a person and defiles God's temple, which is your body. God has called us to use our bodies for honoring God, not using it for fleshly lusts.

A consentual, loving relationship honours God, no matter the gender of the people involved

HaloHope · Sep 23, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
A consentual, loving relationship honours God, no matter the gender of the people involved

A-men

"Its wrong because its wrong" isnt an adequate reason for something to be wrong.

brightmorningstar · Sep 23, 2008

To EnemyPartyII and Halohope,

A consentual, loving relationship honours God, no matter the gender of the people involved

We can see from God’s word that it doesn’t (Gen 2, Matt 19, Eph 5, Gen 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1 etc) and that you have your own ideas which are not God’s..

brightmorningstar · Sep 23, 2008

To Andreusz,

How would you feel if someone told you that the love you feel for your wife or girlfriend is satanic and that you must give it up?

I would know they were being influenced by Satan to say such a thing, as it is Jesus who tells us about Satan's desire to destroy and Jesus who tells us to love people.

EnemyPartyII · Sep 23, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To EnemyPartyII and Halohope,
We can see from Gods word that it doesnt (Gen 2, Matt 19, Eph 5, Gen 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1 etc) and that you have your own ideas which are not Gods..

None of the cited passages say what you claim they say.

Can you see the hypocracy of telling everyone else how wrong they are while refusing to accept the possibility it is YOU who may have things backwards?

Andreusz · Sep 23, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To Andreusz,
I would know they were being influenced by Satan to say such a thing, as it is Jesus who tells us about Satan's desire to destroy and Jesus who tells us to love people.

So how do I know that you are not being influenced by Satan when you tell me that my love for my boyfriend is wrong?

EnemyPartyII · Sep 23, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To Andreusz,
I would know they were being influenced by Satan to say such a thing, as it is Jesus who tells us about Satan's desire to destroy and Jesus who tells us to love people.

Indeed, and since Jesus tells us to love others, that;
A. Makes homosexual love OK, and
B. Makes you unloving treatment of homosexuals wrong

brightmorningstar · Sep 23, 2008

To EnemyPartyII

None of the cited passages say what you claim they say.

I can see they do and anyway I believe they are the word of God, which of course I follow, and as opposed to your views which I don’t follow and aren’t supported Biblically.

Besides I have quoted these passages before and I don’t claim they say anything other than what they say, its you that claims they don’t mean what they say, which is actually disbelief, hence your own ideas.

Indeed, and since Jesus tells us to love others, that;

B. Makes you unloving treatment of homosexuals wrong

I love homosexuals I have fiends who are homosexuals, and that doesn’t change the truth of God’s word.

A. Makes homosexual love OK, and

Love and sex are different, I love my friends who are of the same sex, but I don’t have sex with them or have sexual attractions to them.

brightmorningstar · Sep 23, 2008

To Andreusz,

I would know they were being influenced by Satan to say such a thing, as it is Jesus who tells us about Satan's desire to destroy and Jesus who tells us to love people.

So how do I know that you are not being influenced by Satan when you tell me that my love for my boyfriend is wrong?

Click to expand...

Depends what you mean by love and boyfriend; but you can check out what Jesus teaches in the NT.
As a matter of interest where did you get to know about Satan, was it from Jesus NT teaching?

KCKID · Sep 23, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
I love my friends who are of the same sex, but I dont have sex with them or have sexual attractions to them.

Interesting. Is your not having sexual attractions toward the same sex innate or by choice ...?

Andreusz · Sep 23, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To Andreusz,

I would know they were being influenced by Satan to say such a thing, as it is Jesus who tells us about Satan's desire to destroy and Jesus who tells us to love people.

Click to expand...

Depends what you mean by love and boyfriend; but you can check out what Jesus teaches in the NT.

Click to expand...

By 'boyfriend' I mean the man I spend as much time as possible with, and have sexual relations with.

By 'love' I mean what the word is usually taken to mean. A feeling of intense happiness whenever I think of him; a desire to spend as much time as possible in his company; a feeling that I am exceptionally lucky that I am able to spend my life with someone so wonderful; and an intention to spend the rest of my life with him. (We are probably going to get married.)

brightmorningstar said:

As a matter of interest where did you get to know about Satan, was it from Jesus NT teaching?

Click to expand...

I was brought up in a Christian-dominated society.

So, do you have enough information now to answer the question in my previous post?

brightmorningstar · Sep 23, 2008

To Andreusz,

By 'boyfriend' I mean the man I spend as much time as possible with, and have sexual relations with.

Ok then it is the human idea of love, not God’s. If we translated it back to the Greek it would be eros rather than agape… eros doesn’t appear in the NT, agape does.

I was brought up in a Christian-dominated society.

Pity then you didn’t learn how to recognise what is of Satan and what is of Jesus.

So, do you have enough information now to answer the question in my previous post?

Already answered, your love for your boyfriend includes a sexual element which is wrong. Ie Gen 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2, Jude 1, Gen 2, Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5 etc.

Biblically: Why is homosexuality wrong?

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