Biblical Hebrew - Pronunciation Help with "Dabar"

[Lotuspetal_uk]

Hello my dear brothers and sisters in Messiah.

I was wondering if, those of you fluent in speaking Hebrew, could help me with the pronunciation of the word "Dabar" or if you an direct me to a website where I can physically hear this word.

Also (since I am ever the student, lol) if any of you get the chance would you mind checking out the following website in terms of how they have used the word "Dabar" and would you mind confirming to me whether what was asserted is sound/ok?

The Dabar of the Lord

Reason for post - some of you might remember an earlier post I had where I was writing a chapter of my book and it was relating to an MJ mother having to leave a message for her non believing teenage son. Since that earlier thread, I toiled, prayed, asked on CF, had a toddler tantrum, prayed again but months later was able to write the chapter. Basically, the mother instructs the son to use the word "Dabar" to voice activate a secret message. She was specific to her son that he had to pronounce the word in Hebrew, exactly the way she taught him when he was younger.

So I've completed the chapter and has concluded that G-d has a sense of humour, since I was going to use the word "Rhema" but instead ended up with a Hebrew word I can't pronounce, LOL.

Any help on this would be very much appreciated.

 

[Elihoenai]

It could be that the Samaritans have the original pronunciation for Debar.

Hebrew: Pronunciations of Hebrew

"...The traditional pronunciations of Hebrew extant with most communities are of two major categories: (a) the pronunciations used in the reading of the Bible; (b) the pronunciations used in the reading of the post-biblical literature, primarily the Mishnah. In the pronunciations pertaining to the first category, the reading is based upon the vocalized text of the Bible, whereas in the second it is based, in many communities, upon an unvocalized text. This results from the fact that for the Mishnah no authorized vocalization exists that could be compared to the Tiberian vocalization of the Bible (which was accepted by all Jewish communities, except for the Samaritan, as the authoritative vocalization according to which the Bible should be read)...."


"...The Samaritan reader supplements the Pentateuch with the missing phonological entities according to the oral tradition transmitted in the community. In this respect the Samaritan traditional pronunciation differs from the traditional pronunciation of the Bible extant in all other Jewish communities, which use the Tiberian vocalization for the reading of the Bible...."

Pronunciations of Hebrew


Samaritan Priest Recites Shma Yisrael in Ancient Hebrew

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Pronunciations of Hebrew


Samaritan Priest Recites Shma Yisrael in Ancient Hebrew

Almost sounds Arabic at times...

 

[Dkh587]

Think of the English name "Lamar"

Replace the L with a D, and the M with a B. Dabar

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

Think of the English name "Lamar"

Replace the L with a D, and the M with a B. Dabar

Awesome! Thanks ever so much, that makes a lot of sense

 

[Dave-W]

Which pronunciation do you want? The one you are attempting (academic) is made up.

Sephardic pronunciation is da-VAR.

Note the 2nd line: Hine haTorah davar Adonai

 

[Elihoenai]

About Samaritan spoken language:

Almost sounds Arabic at times...

Samaritan Hebrew

Samaritan Hebrew (Hebrew: עברית שומרונית‎) is a reading tradition used liturgically by the Samaritans for reading the Ancient Hebrew language of the Samaritan Pentateuch, in contrast to Biblical Hebrew (the language of the Masoretic Jewish Pentateuch).

For the Samaritans, Ancient Hebrew ceased to be a spoken everyday language and was succeeded by Samaritan Aramaic, which itself ceased to be a spoken language some time between the 10th and 12th centuries and was succeeded by Arabic (or more specifically Samaritan Palestinian Arabic).

The phonology of Samaritan Hebrew is very similar to that of Samaritan Arabic, used by the Samaritans in prayer.[3] Today, the spoken vernacular among Samaritans is evenly split between Modern Israeli Hebrew and Palestinian Arabic, depending on whether they reside in Holon (Israel) or in Shechem (i.e. Nablus, in Palestine’s Area A).

Samaritan Hebrew - Wikipedia


Connections between Arabic and Hebrew

"...Arabic and Hebrew speakers with Middle Eastern backgrounds easily notice the strong pronunciation similarities they share. Both Arabic and Hebrew pronunciation systems have more flexibility to pronounce several vowels and some of tricky letters which most European speakers cannot easily pronounce, e.g. ح (pronounced as Ha') & ع (pronounced as Ein). As for the Hebrew pronunciation, it's divided into two main forms/dialects: Sephardic and Ashkenazi. This causes several pronunciation issues easily noticed when visiting Israel...."


"...Modern Hebrew is influenced by the Romance, Slavic and Germanic languages.

Hebrew has two main dialects: Ashkenazic dialect, used by European Jews and their descendants and Sephardic dialect, used by Jews from the Mediterranean and Middle Eastern areas...."

Connections between Arabic and Hebrew

 

[Dave-W]

As for the Hebrew pronunciation, it's divided into two main forms/dialects: Sephardic and Ashkenazi.

There are regional variants of each. Probably the most ancient is the Yemenite Sephardic.

Batya Segal is Yemenite.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

Which pronunciation do you want? The one you are attempting (academic) is made up.

Sephardic pronunciation is da-VAR.

Note the 2nd line: Hine haTorah davar Adonai

Thanks Dave

Which is the one that a British (Jewish) child would grow up with, in a Jewish home?

You've gotten me thinking - would or could the pronunciation be dependent on where a Jewish person's family lived?

 

[Dave-W]

Which is the one that a British (Jewish) child would grow up with, in a Jewish home?

Probably it would be Ashkenazic.

 

[Elihoenai]

About the different Hebrew dialects:

There are regional variants of each. Probably the most ancient is the Yemenite Sephardic.

Batya Segal is Yemenite.

Yemenite Jews

Yemenite Hebrew

Yemenite Hebrew has been studied by scholars, many of whom believe it to contain the most ancient phonetic and grammatical features.

Yemenite Jews - Wikipedia


The Real Story of Hebrew Pronunciation

"...Unfortunately, there are no YouTube videos or vinyl recordings illustrating how Avraham Avinu or Moshe Rabbeinu spoke. No one can prove that one pronunciation system more accurately reflects how the Jews in Eretz Yisrael spoke thousands of years ago. We have only written evidence. Yet written records do not record the pronunciation of words (how would one know how to pronounce “laugh” correctly from written evidence alone?)...."

The Real Story of Hebrew Pronunciation - Jewish Action

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

This has proven once again to be a thread where I am learning so much. Thank you guys!

Dave, another quick question - would the Ashkenazic Jews more likely pronounce "Dabar" as "Da-VAR"?

Thanks again

 

[Dave-W]

This has proven once again to be a thread where I am learning so much. Thank you guys!

Dave, another quick question - would the Ashkenazic Jews more likely pronounce "Dabar" as "Da-VAR"?

Thanks again

Iam not sure of the Ashkenazic pronunciation of it.

Why do you think the vet should be voiced as a B? Yes, it is sometimes, I know.

 

[AbbaLove]

Dave, another quick question - would the Ashkenazic Jews more likely pronounce "Dabar" as "Da-VAR"?

Are you inquiring/wondering whether Ashkenazic Jews pronunciation of certain Hebrew words is more Jewish/Hebrew than is the Jewish pronunciation of the same Hebrew word by Shepardic Jews? Such prejudice depends on whether you believe the lighter-complexion of Eastern European Jews (Ashkenazic) pronunciation of Hebrew words is preferred to that of Spanish, Portugal or North Africa Jews (Shepardic) whose complexion is not as light as those of European Jews.

It is estimated that Ashkenazi Jews make up about 75% of Jews worldwide and that the majority of Ultra Orthodox Israeli Jews are of a lighter complexion (Ashkenazi Jews). Therefore, one might conclude that the pronunciation of Hebrew words by Israel's Ultra Orthodox Jews is the preferred pronunciation.

Personally, i prefer a olive skin complexion to an anemic looking white complexion, but that's just my prejudice. So, i wouldn't object to a Shepardic pronunciation of a Hebrew word that differs from that of an Ashkenazic pronunciation

 

[Elihoenai]

Ashkenazi appears to claim Yemenite/Temani Pronunciation Supremacy.

Pronunciation of Hebrew Alphabet-The Holy Tongue: Traumatized by Exile

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

Iam not sure of the Ashkenazic pronunciation of it.

Why do you think the vet should be voiced as a B? Yes, it is sometimes, I know.

Gotcha, thanks.

I absolutely have no idea tbh, lol. I am coming from pretty much a ground-zero, student-with-pen-and-paper-ready to learn aspect. Which is where what you guys have placed in this thread has been so helpful for me.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

​

Are you inquiring/wondering whether Ashkenazic Jews pronunciation of certain Hebrew words is more Jewish/Hebrew than is the Jewish pronunciation of the same Hebrew word by Shepardic Jews? Such prejudice depends on whether you believe the lighter-complexion of Eastern European Jews (Ashkenazic) pronunciation of Hebrew words is preferred to that of Spanish, Portugal or North Africa Jews (Shepardic) whose complexion is not as light as those of European Jews.

Oh no not at all - basically the mother in my story is a Messianic Jew but her heritage is leaning towards European Jewish. I was going to have her as an Ethiopian Jew but (out of my own ignorance) I've not met any Ethiopian Jews in the UK let alone one who believes in Messiah Yeshua. She married outside her culture whilst she got saved. She continued to practice the feasts and festivals and had taught her son certain Hebraic terms when he was smaller. The non believing teenage son has to then try to recall what he was taught when he was younger in order to hear an important message from his now absent mother.

I want to make sure that I can convey the pronunciation accurately for the reader.

I have finally managed to pass 20,000 words but this was a chapter that had me stuck for months