Biblical Creationism versus Hindu Creationism

I dont know if anyone else here come from completely outside a Christian culture.

But I agree with the poster who said you go with whatever religion you wre born with, and i guess nearly everyone thinks they had the amazing luck to be born into the True religion.

I started getting exposed to Christianity in school, along with learning English. Looking at it from outside, i guess it looks way different than if you are born into it.

Here is a statement from an earlier poster

"The Holy bible clearly describes that many people around the world were worshipping false Gods and performing false practices, and it was because of these acts that the Father finally decided it was time to make himself, his word, and the truth known to the masses. Although, some knew the truth and had worshipped and followed the Lord from the very beginning."

I have heard this idea expressed many times. I like logic and justice and things that make sense, and I cant find it in any of this. Maybe someone can explain?

God (if there is a god) already knew / knows everything that will ever happen, right?

So would he "finally decide"? He couldnt possibly not know what to do, or what was going to happen / what had already happened since he is as much at the end of time as at the beginning.... is this not so?

Where is the justice in not telling everyone right from the beginning? Getting tired of people not knowing what you didnt tell them is just weird.

If he decided to get the word to the masses, here it is 2000 years later and there are still people who have absolutely no idea about a Christian god; and more still who find any presumed message to be sketchy, ambiguous and difficult to believe.

i always wondered why if Jesus could rise from the dead, he didnt just go right back to preaching like nothing had happened. Old Julius himself would have been worshipping that kind of god quick enough.

Well, t his is not really creation and evolution, but then i dont guess the op was either. Seriously tho, if someone could explain how these things Id be grateful.

Split Rock said:

I thought The Bible only had ONE author....

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Sounds to me like someone needs to learn some Basic Theology --- not to mention Basic Amanuensics.

juvenissun said:

It seems you know something about Veda. I do not know what it is.
But may be you can explain the relationship between the believers and the god(s) in Hinduism. If you do, please use simple and plain English.

It has to be different. After you explained it, then we can take a look which doctrine is "better".

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For the majority of Hindus, the most important religious path is bhakti (devotion) to personal gods. There are a wide variety of gods to choose from, and although sectarian adherence to particular deities is often strong, there is a widespread acceptance of choice in the desired god (ishta devata ) as the most appropriate focus for any particular person.
Most devotees are therefore polytheists, worshiping all or part of the vast pantheon of deities, some of whom have come down from Vedic times.

In practice, a worshiper tends to concentrate prayers on one deity or on a small group of gods with whom there is a close personal relationship. Puja (worship) of the gods consists of a range of ritual offerings and prayers typically performed either daily or on special days before an image of the deity, which may be in the form of a person or a symbol of the sacred presence.

Hindu God Ram- Lord Ram, is the most famous incarnation of Vishnu. He is righteousness personified and is also called as Maryada Purusottama. He was a son unequalled in the world, and resembled his father Dasaratha in the possession of good qualities. He never spoke an untruth, He respected the learned and the elderly; people adored Him, and He loved them. His transcendental body was free from disease and the influence of old age. He was eloquent, beautiful, and adaptable to circumstances. He knew the heart of every man on earth [being omniscient], and He alone was aloof from the world of matter. He alone was possessed of all conceivable qualities who was the king's son, and was as dear to the people as their own hearts." "He was loved by His father's subjects, and ever increased His sire's delight. Lord Ram was endowed with dazzling transcendental qualities, and He was haloed as if by the rays of the sun. The earth personified adored Him who was possessed of such virtues, who was unconquerable, who was courageous, and who was the unequalled Lord of all."

Hinduism:
1) Hindus believe in the divinity of the vedas, the world's most ancient scripture, and venerate the Agamas as equally revealed. These primordial hymns are God's word and the bedrock of Sanatana Dharma, the eternal religion which has neither beginning nor end.

2) Hindus believe in a one, all-pervasive supreme being who is both immanent and transcendent, both Creator and Unmanifest Reality.

3) Hindus believe that the universe undergoes endless cycles of creation, preservation and dissolution.

4) Hindus believe in karma, the law of cause and effect by which each individual creates his own destiny by his thoughts, words and deeds.

5) Hindus believe that the soul reincarnates, evolving through many births until all karmas have been resolved, and moksha, spiritual knowledge and liberation from the cycle of rebirth, is attained. Not a single soul will be eternally deprived of this destiny.

6) Hindus believe that divine beings exist in unseen worlds and that temple worship, rituals, sacraments as well as personal devotionals create a communion with these devas and Gods.

7) Hindus believe that a spiritually awakened master, or satguru, is essential to know the Transcendent Absolute, as are personal discipline, good conduct, purification, pilgrimage, self-inquiry and meditation.

8) Hindus believe that all life is sacred, to be loved and revered, and therefore practice ahimsa, "noninjury."

9) Hindus believe that no particular religion teaches the only way to salvation above all others, but that all genuine religious paths are facets of God's Pure Love and Light, deserving tolerance and understanding.

Christianity:
1) Christians believe that the bible is the uniquely inspired and fully trustworthy word of God. It is the final authority for Christians in matters of belief and practice, and though it was written long ago, it continues to speak to believers today.

2) Christians believe in one God in three persons. He is distinct from his creation, yet intimately involved with it as its sustainer and redeemer.

3) Christians believe that the world was created once by the divine will, was corrupted by sin, yet under God's providence moves toward final perfection.

4) Christians believe that, through God's grace and favor, lost sinners are rescued from the guilt, power and eternal consequences of their evil thoughts, words and deeds.

5) Christians believe that it is appointed for human beings to die once and after that face judgment. In Adam's sin, the human race was spiritually alienated from God, and that those who are called by God and respond to his grace will have eternal life. Those who persist in rebellion will be lost eternally.

6) Christians believe that spirit beings inhabit the universe, some good and some evil, but worship is due to God alone.

7) Christians believe that God has given us a clear revelation of Himself in Jesus and the sacred Scriptures. He has empowered by his Spirit prophets, apostles, evangelists, and pastors who are teachers charged to guide us into faith and holiness in accordance with his Word.

8) Christians believe that life is to be highly esteemed but that it must be subordinated in the service of Biblical love and justice.

9) Christians believe that Jesus is God incarnate and, therefore, the only sure path to salvation. Many religions may offer ethical and spiritual insights, but only Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life

ragarth said:

If he's talking specifically about the new testament, this makes pretty decent sense, and is what I assumed he meant.

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In Basic Theology --- that 1500 years covers the period BC 1400 - AD 100 --- or from Moses to John --- or from Genesis to Revelation.

The three continents are Europe, Asia, and Africa and the three languages are Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

Before you guys go rushing out to bow to Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, consider this:

1. Hinduism was one of the most, if not THE most oppressive religions on the face of the earth. So oppressive was it, that they invented a breakaway religion called Buddhism as a means of relief.

2. Shiva, the god of destruction, was worshipped by Shoko Asahara, who wanted to get back to worshipping him in "supreme truth" [called Aum Shinri Kyo]. This desire to get back to basic theology with the god of destruction led to the 1995 Sarin Nerve Gas poisonings in Japan.

It's always the common man who suffered when false religions spread from one place to another.

consol said:

Had AV and all of the other Christian posters here been raised by Hindu parents they would now be Hindus,

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Thanks to Hinduism, which led the people of India to believe their gods would make it a paradise, India is one of the saddest places on earth.

While the common people starve to death for lack of meat, their sacred cows wander in the streets right in front of them, and urinate upstream in their sacred river, the Ganges, while the people are worshipping in it.

This diseased nation is then used as a poster child for international relief, instead of placing the blame where it should be placed --- on Hinduism and corrupt government.

AV1611VET said:

Before you guys go rushing out to bow to Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, consider this:

1. Hinduism was one of the most, if not THE most oppressive religions on the face of the earth. So oppressive was it, that they invented a breakaway religion called Buddhism as a means of relief.

2. Shiva, the god of destruction, was worshipped by Shoko Asahara, who wanted to get back to worshipping him in "supreme truth" [called Aum Shinri Kyo]. This desire to get back to basic theology with the god of destruction led to the 1995 Sarin Nerve Gas poisonings in Japan.

It's always the common man who suffered when false religions spread from one place to another.

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Hmm....you do realise at one time or another, and probably again at some point in the future, the same thing could be said about Christianity?

Maybe those guys just weren't True Hindus (tm)?

1. Judaism was one of the most, if not THE most oppressive religions on the face of the earth. So oppressive was it, that they invented a breakaway religion called Christianity as a means of relief.

2. God, was worshipped by many people, who wanted to get back to worshipping him in "supreme truth". This desire to get back to basic theology with the Hebrew God led to the many horrible atrocities throughout the history of the religion.

It's always the common man who suffered when false religions spread from one place to another. That includes Christianity.

It goes both ways.

/thread

AV1611VET said:

/thread

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Oh come ON, AV. Pick the Reformation and one bad event done in the name of Christianity, and the statements seem equivalent. We're not having a go at what you believe, we're just pointing out the parity of the statements. Don't run off just because you don't like it, for crying out loud....

Hespera said:

God (if there is a god) already knew / knows everything that will ever happen, right?

So would he "finally decide"? He couldnt possibly not know what to do, or what was going to happen / what had already happened since he is as much at the end of time as at the beginning.... is this not so?

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The basic argument on this issue is the "free will" problem. Does "free will" exist? You may study it and see what you think.

I firmly believe that human has free will, which God lets us to exercise it on ourselves. That is why Adam and Eve sinned.

AV1611VET said:

In Basic Theology --- that 1500 years covers the period BC 1400 - AD 100 --- or from Moses to John --- or from Genesis to Revelation.

The three continents are Europe, Asia, and Africa and the three languages are Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

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In evangelical circles those dates may be true. But to tout it as if it was the one and only opinion that is out there, is patently untrue.

And with respect to the languages, how big is the role that Aramaic plays exactly? I know the entire OT was written in Hebrew, and the entire NT was written in Greek, but I am not entirely sure atm whether the amount of Aramaic is significantly beyond a phrase, or sentence here and a phrase or sentence there.

And despite the fact that you can state that the Bible was authored on three different continents, the size of the area where the composition took place is fairly small. To my mind, proclaiming that the bible was written on three different continents, especially if part of sales-pitch-type of apologetics, is dishonest. It implies something which quickly breaks down, if only you look a wee little closer. It implies vast geographical differences, but in reality it is no more than the difference between maybe Italy and Egypt.

And to connect back to the Vedas - India is by far larger than the area in which the composition the Bible took place. And with a little luck, there could well be at least two continents as well; Eurasia and the Indian subcontinent. With a little luck.

ETA: And strictly speaking, Europe and the bulk of Asia belong to the same geographical continent: Eurasia. So, in that respect, for the bible there are only two continents: Africa and Eurasia

th February 2009, 11:46 AM

juvenissun
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Originally Posted by Hespera

The basic argument on this issue is the "free will" problem. Does "free will" exist? You may study it and see what you think.

I firmly believe that human has free will, which God lets us to exercise it on ourselves. That is why Adam and Eve sinned.////////////////



Hespera sez-

Thanks for the thoughts juv but really you are off on a tangent and your answer really has nothing much to do with what i said...

Of course people have free will.

I just thought someone might have some thoughts on what i was asking about.

BananaSlug said:

Hinduism:
1) ...

2) Hindus believe in a one, all-pervasive supreme being who is both immanent and transcendent, both Creator and Unmanifest Reality.

3) ...
4) ...


Christianity:
1) ...

2) Christians believe in one God in three persons. He is distinct from his creation, yet intimately involved with it as its sustainer and redeemer.

3) ...

4) ...

5) ...

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Post with massive information does not really help. So let's simply pick one of the comparisons you listed.

In Christianity, believers only have to deal with one God.
In Hinduism, which god should one deal with? The one fits you the best? or the most powerful one? Why not go straight toward the most powerful one and skip all the other gods?

Obviously, there are many many more questions to answer in Hinduism. That is why there is NO creation science in Hinduism. Does this answer the OP?

ragarth said:

Bringing this back on topic, Free Will in Hinduism:

Dear Daniel,

Thank you for your excellent question.

There is a word in Sanskrit for will, "iccha," but when we speak of the human will, we understand that it is always conditioned and determined by past actions (karma) and therefore not, technically speaking, free. What you are and desire today is a direct result of the sum total of all your actions, including thoughts, in the past over countless lives. The sense of freedom of choice we experience, therefore, is mostly an illusion caused by partial self knowledge.

The Divine, however, being free of the bonds of karma, does possess free will, often expressed in Sanskrit as "lila" or the playful sport of the Divine. When we realize our own Divine Essence, we, too, experience that freedom, but then we no longer identify with the merely human aspect of our being, or it can be said, we submit our will to the Divine Will, which is just a devotional framing of the same process.

As the Bhagavad-gita says:

"Deluded by ego (ahamkara) a person thinks, 'I am the doer.'" (3:27)

Best wishes,

Br. William

​

<source: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Hindus-946/free-hinduism.htm >

This is interesting, and aside from the supernatural aspects (past lives, gods, etc.) represents my opinion on free will. I see free will as an illusion, our actions are generated from past experience, knowledge, and the structure of our brains. So in this instance, me and Hinduism agree.

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So, Hinduism says: anyone can become a god (who has free will).
So, what is a "god"?