Bible Infallibility?

[briocht]

Hi all,

This is something that I am wondering about at the moment. I've been looking at churches in my area but a lot of them say they that the Bible is "infallible."

Now I do believe that the Bible is true, but (please do not let me not offend anyone here!) I just don't believe in the creation of Adam and Eve, or stories such as Noah's Ark as historically relevant.

I was doing some research online and apparently infallibility can refer to the idea that the Bible is spiritually accurate and useful, not necessarily historically accurate.

Is this what is meant when some churches say they believe in Bible infallibility?

Although I know some churches do believe exactly what is written word for word in the Bible...

I'm just confused...can anyone clarify this for me?

Thank you!

 

[fm107]

Hi briocht,

If the Bible is historically inaccurate as you suppose, what reason do you have to trust that the spiritual aspects of it are true?

When Christians talk about infallibility, I believe they are referring to being able to trust what it says is true. I too would call the Bible infallible.

As it is, I know with certainty that you cannot disprove Adam and Even existed or that Noah's flood happened. What I can say is that the evidence I have seen certainly does point to their being a flood. I also know from past reading and documentaries that the Bible is a very accurate historical manuscript, being used by historians to find ancient sites. Even more intriguing than that, the artefacts and sites and excavations thereof only confirm the Bible's account of historical events. It's truly amazing how the bible is found to be right time after time after time. On the contrary, I have never seen evidence to say the Bible is inaccurate.

I don't know why you wouldn't believe Adam and Eve or Noah's flood. Is it just that you doubt it? Many fall into that trap but when you think about it, doesn't the creation and how God made Adam and Eve make sense? Life cannot come from non life after all. Also, Noah's flood...can't God control the weather? He is God, he can make it rain for as long as he wishes. These things cannot be disproved, I think in the least, you could say it's possible. But don't just discount it for the sake of it.

I hope this helps in some small measure, though I think I have just blabbed on. Sorry lol!

 

[Peripatetic]

The Bible has different literary forms: history, poetry, sermons, letters, parables, etc. We aren't always certain what is history and what is a story meant to teach. For example, nobody would argue that Jotham's fable in Judges 9 is history, since it features different varieties of trees debating about who should be king! And we know that the life of Jesus was historical based on a lot of evidence outside of the Bible. Other books of the Bible are debated. Some say that Jesus' parables are based on fact, but most believe they are only stories meant to teach. The books about Jonah and Job are often are debated. I always try to approach the Bible with humility. I'm not able to answer these questions, but it doesn't make the Bible any less divine or important.

 

[KWCrazy]

Jesus believed in Adam and Eve. He spoke of them as the first man and woman. He believed in the Great flood, and mentioned Noah by name. He believed the story of Jonah as a historical fact, and acknowledged that the Scriptures were the inspired word of God. You can see a good list of verses where Christ cites the infallibility of the Scriptures here.

In regards to the creation, you may recall that the Ten Commandments were actually written by the hand of God and given to Moses. They included Exodus 20:11, where God states that He made the world in six days. None of the 333 miricles listed in the Bible are scientifically possible, which is why they are miracles. They attest to the magesty and the omnipotence of God. Don't let the false "logic" of man seduce you away from the truth. If God chooses to spin the earth backward tomorrow all the laws of physics will yield to His will.

 

[Peripatetic]

I think it's safe to say that the Bible is perfect, but our ability to interpret the Bible is not. But it is much more important to benefit from the large percentage about which we agree, rather than obsessing about the relatively few things that cause debate.

 

[opengate07]

Is the Bible Infallible?

 

[Sketcher]

It is always morally and spiritually accurate, and when we are speaking of the literal sections of the Bible (determined by their genre and context), historically accurate as well.

 

[Shulamite7]

Briocht, if you can't trust in the history of all created things and events recorded in the Bible then what about the future prophecies and predictions in the Bible? Many of the events predicted in the Bible have already occured or is falling into place to happen soon.

 

[briocht]

I guess I just wanted to understand what is meant by this term, as I wanted to reach out and join a church. I didn't want to join a church unless I shared a common set of beliefs.

As much as I want to meet others who follow and love God, I guess I will be going it alone for a while and turning to God to guide me in my faith and beliefs.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[KWCrazy]

I guess I just wanted to understand what is meant by this term, as I wanted to reach out and join a church. I didn't want to join a church unless I shared a common set of beliefs.

As much as I want to meet others who follow and love God, I guess I will be going it alone for a while and turning to God to guide me in my faith and beliefs.

Thanks for the replies.

I anticipated this response from the beginning. You didn't get the answer you wanted; that the Bible is NOT literally true; and so you pull away and say you'll turn to a God you don't know or understand to guide you in your faith in beliefs... provided He guides you in the way you already intend on going. God does not come to you on your terms. You must find God on His. The best place to start is where God dwells. Spend the next few weeks visiting different churches and actually LISTENING to what they say. What you THINK you know is not truth. What you REFUSE to believe is what is true.

The fact is that Jesus is the son of God. He came to earth to reveal to mankind the New Covenant; that salvation was offered freely to anyone who would confess the Jesus is the son of God and that through His death and resurrection the sins of man are forgiven. Until you understand this, you will NOT see the kingdom of Heaven. You say that you don't believe in certain miracles on the Bible, and yet the greatest miracle of all; the life and death of Jesus Christ; is the cornerstone of salvation.

You can read the Bible daily and not understand it because the truth has not been revealed to you. That truth comes from the Holy Spirit, which you obviously do not have because you do not believe. When you receive the Holy Spirit you will know the truth. Until then you'll just wander around pretending, while thinking that you're somehow smarter than everyone else because "you see through the smokescreen."

I don't believe you are sincere. I don't believe you have the courage to openly seek the truth in God's house of worship. I don't believe you have the moral courage to open your heart to God and ask Him to teach you all that you do not know. I think you're as fake as a two dollar diamond. I DARE you to prove me wrong.

 

[timf]

Now I do believe that the Bible is true, but (please do not let me not offend anyone here!) I just don't believe in the creation of Adam and Eve, or stories such as Noah's Ark as historically relevant.

There are very many people in your situation. The Bible itself tells us that it is foolishness to those who are perishing. Many who call themselves Christian cannot bring themselves to believe the Bible is really true because of things like the creation account or the story of Noah.

When people cannot trust in the Bible, they are not able to draw as close to their Lord as they might like. If you cannot trust His word, can you really trust Him?

For the Christian, the question should be what is true. Since Jesus is truth and His word is truth, we should follow truth. When the world says one thing and the Bible something else, we need to ask ourselves is there a way the Bible can be true?

You can find plenty of churches that follow the world. You don't have to worry about not being able to find people who also reject Genesis. However, if you want to follow truth, there are many web sites that explain how what is put forth as science is not really science.

 

[x141]

The best place to start is where God dwells. Spend the next few weeks visiting different churches and actually LISTENING to what they say.

He dwells in us, not in buildings made with hands.

 

[x141]

Hi all,

This is something that I am wondering about at the moment. I've been looking at churches in my area but a lot of them say they that the Bible is "infallible."

Now I do believe that the Bible is true, but (please do not let me not offend anyone here!) I just don't believe in the creation of Adam and Eve, or stories such as Noah's Ark as historically relevant.

I was doing some research online and apparently infallibility can refer to the idea that the Bible is spiritually accurate and useful, not necessarily historically accurate.

Is this what is meant when some churches say they believe in Bible infallibility?

Although I know some churches do believe exactly what is written word for word in the Bible...

I'm just confused...can anyone clarify this for me?

Thank you!

His words are spirit, and they are this life to us. God speaks to us in picture form, father, mother, son, bride, a name, a city, a garden, a kingdom, a pillar, a lamb, etc. but it all points to within, just as God finds no truth outside of himself.

 

[KWCrazy]

He dwells in us, not in buildings made with hands.

Not in buildings made with hands, but where three or more are gathered in His name, there is He in the midst of them. A person who is not saved, who believes the Bible to be lies, and who has not been born again has no indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Bible doesn't make sense to him because he has no understanding.

This person needs to hear the true word of God; not to read the words of the unsaved on the internet.

 

[x141]

Not in buildings made with hands, but where three or more are gathered in His name, there is He in the midst of them. A person who is not saved, who believes the Bible to be lies, and who has not been born again has no indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Bible doesn't make sense to him because he has no understanding.

This person needs to hear the true word of God; not to read the words of the unsaved on the internet.

Do you believe that he is not in the midst of you, when no one else is around ... or that you are not in him presently, or that he forsakes you if there is anything less than two who are gathered.

Being born again only affords you to see the kingdom, not enter it, and many of the churches preach from a seeing, but have no understanding of what it means to enter, rather, they will not enter, and will not suffer those who are to do so.

Born again is a picture of something just as Adam and Eve are. We measure it according to what we see, and this becomes the image of the truth to us.

Enoch had no bible, yet he entered into a truth that caused him to be not. Whereas Cain built a city made with hands and named it Enoch, after his perception of his son, a picture of something.

God breathed the breath of Life into man, and he became a living soul, which was given to understand this breath of Life that was in him, as something that was given or granted to him, the deception being it was something that by thought you earned.

It was a free gift to all, and this is what the gospel of life is from the beginning, being the person of our Father. It is we who hold peoples sin against them when in reality the Lamb of God took away the sin of the world, but we refuse to believe he has, or we measure it to a degree for ourselves, which causes us to measure it this way to everyone else, and we along with them are found measured and wanting, the gospel becoming a mixture of good and evil.

We who profess to be Christians have no more understanding than the Jews had at the time of his first appearing in flesh. We make people bow to our perception, when we should all be bowing to his.

For the majority of Christians the Bible is still confusing to them, because they have not entered into his word, and if they do, they do not remain.

I am one who the spirit drew to himself, before I was ever drawn to a church, though I said no sinners prayer, even though I did when I ended up at a church, because this is what well meaning Christians had told me I needed to do, much like what Peter had said, after he saw that the gentiles had received the spirit just as he had. God's words being to Peter were, Call not what I have cleansed unclean, which Peter, on the roof top, never arose and ate of.

 

[KWCrazy]

Do you believe that he is not in the midst of you, when no one else is around ... or that you are not in him presently, or that he forsakes you if there is anything less than two who are gathered.

We're not talking about me, we're talking about an unsaved person who does not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, to whom the truth of God's word has not been revealed. Without having knowledge that he does not possess, he's not going to find the truth. He needs someone to lead him to the Lord, be that someone a a person or a church. He also needs the fellowship of other Christians like we all do to help give us strength to resist the ravages of doubt and the evil the pervades this world.

Being born again only affords you to see the kingdom, not enter it,

John 3:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

You stopped at John 3:3 and left out the rest.

and many of the churches preach from a seeing, but have no understanding of what it means to enter, rather, they will not enter, and will not suffer those who are to do so.

That's true. That's why you need to find a church that preaches truth, and leave those which do not.

God breathed the breath of Life into man, and he became a living soul, which was given to understand this breath of Life that was in him, as something that was given or granted to him, the deception being it was something that by thought you earned.

Man, however, does not understand this. Being born lost in a lost world, his understanding is limited to that which he is taught. If he is taught that he evolved, that the earth is billions of years old, and that there are no such things as miracles, then that is what he believes. Until he is taught otherwise he will not believe otherwise, regardless of what he reads.

It is we who hold peoples sin against them when in reality the Lamb of God took away the sin of the world...

Absolutely NOT! Later in John 3 we read:
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Jesus came to take away the sin of those who belkieve on him. They who do not are condemned already.

For the majority of Christians the Bible is still confusing to them, because they have not entered into his word, and if they do, they do not remain.

I don't know about the majority or minority, but many, to be sure.

I am one who the spirit drew to himself, before I was ever drawn to a church, though I said no sinners prayer, even though I did when I ended up at a church, because this is what well meaning Christians had told me I needed to do, much like what Peter had said, after he saw that the gentiles had received the spirit just as he had.

God has no need to hear repeated words, though we have the need to confess to Him that we are all sinners, unworthy of the sacrifice that Jesus made, but that through that sacrifice our sins may be forgiven.

 

[ConfuseddotCom]

Not every Christian believes Genesis is literal, many believe it is allegorical. That does not make them wrong or their faith weak.

 

[x141]

If it is not allegorical, we are all born of incest ...

 

[asiyreh]

For some years now certain genomics groups have been building a genetic database. Think you can actually submit a sample. Have your family history traced etc.

Anyways the data has allowed us to map ancestral descendancy, migration patterns and other interesting analysis. But more importantly it’s allowed us to propose a Christian scientific falsifiable model. Actually two pretty solid scientific hypothesis known as:-

Y Chromosome Adam

And

Mitochondrial Eve.

The second is much more robust than the first, because of the nature of Mitochondrial DNA, but the others a fairly sturdy model too, based on the data.
Natural science will actually agree with the hypothesis, up to a point. However they will imagine that this “Eve” was some ape like creature; of perhaps the Australopithecus afarensis group.
However absent the presupposition that – the” theory of decent“is correct.
All the evidence tells us is that, the human population had one common female ancestor...

Hmmm...

And for the Noah thing... Looks here’s what I do with Noah. Some creation groups have done feasibility studies on the story of the ark. It’s plausible. Its plausible - do some research and leave it to the side.
There are some issues with current knowledge of plate tectonics that cause the Noah story some issue. However we're only scratching the surface of that particular scientific endeavour and as with other areas of science the more we find, the more the theist worldview seems to be the correct one.

What you need to know as a Christian, on a spiritual level is that - The flood was the judgement and Christ is the Ark.
Tis a shawdow for us all, if you are still around for the End!
Or
If your fate is to die before, a shadow of your own life.

The bible is God breathed every word filled with wisdom, however you must understand the literary genres of the book. In the past people have tried to read the bible literally.
However one cannot read for example the book of revelation literally. It’s genre is apocalyptic literature and it is highly symbolic.

The symbols used however will be explained in other parts of the bible. Sometimes in the next page, or the next line, sometimes in their Hebrew parallels in the Old Testament.

Eg. Revelation 17:15 where it tells us - The Waters - are peoples and nations and tongues.

Every part of the bible is bread for your soul, to get all the vital nutrients you soul requires, you must understand the lessons of it all.

Whatever begins to exist has a cause
The universe began to exist
Therefore the universe has a cause...

In the beginning...

 

[hedrick]

You've asked a question on which Christians disagree. Conservative Christians believe that the Bible is factually accurate except in places like parables and figures of speech. However many of us think the Bible is a human creation written by people who had experienced God, but expressed it as they understood it. In that case, we will see their own culture and beliefs reflected in their writing.

In the US, I believe a majority of folks belief in literal accuracy, but there's a large group that does not. In CF the balance is weighted more strongly to literal accuracy I think. You can see that from the fact that all of the responses so far advocate it.

Various beliefs are intertwined, so beliefs about the Bible tend to be associated with beliefs about theology and other aspects of Christianity. Generally folks who don't belief in literal accuracy of the Bible also tend to see historical Christian doctrines as the way that people in a certain culture expressed their faith. So they're open to other ways of expressing it today.

To me the evidence for a more flexible view comes as much from the natural of the Bible itself as from external evidence such as science.

New Christians isn't a place for debate, so if you want to pursue discussion, you can use areas such as Christian Scripture, or to ask specifically about the liberal view, the Liberal forum.