biased forum title

[cyberlizard]

how come this forum is called 'christian scriptures'

the old testament is jewish scriptures.

so either we should have two forums called the above, or one forum simply called scriptures!

 

[mont974x4]

Because the Bible, the compilation of the complete Word of God, is considered a Christian book.

 

[AvgJoe]

how come this forum is called 'christian scriptures'

the old testament is jewish scriptures.

so either we should have two forums called the above, or one forum simply called scriptures!

The Old Testament foreshadows the New. Throughout both testaments, progressive revelation shows us that we have a sin problem, that we need a Savior and that Jesus is that Savior. The Christian Scriptures, the Bible, would not be complete without the Old Testament.

 

[JolieHeart]

For me and my ignorance, the title serves its purpose.

 

[ozell]

The Old Testament foreshadows the New. Throughout both testaments, progressive revelation shows us that we have a sin problem, that we need a Savior and that Jesus is that Savior. The Christian Scriptures, the Bible, would not be complete without the Old Testament.

hi

the OT is Jesus words

from Genesis to Malachi are the words of Jesus before he came in the flesh. unfortunatly the translators did not understand this. The bulk of the OT should be in red as is the NT when Jesus spoke.

The NT was not written when the apostles and Jesus walked the earth,

Mt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Mt 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Mt 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Mt 26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.


Mk 14:49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

Lk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Lk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Lk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Jn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

The OT is what we search to understand and learn about Jesus.
It porvides a more indept knowledge of who Jesus is


Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.



Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

the OT shows Jesus is the christ

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

we have comfort and hope thru the scriptures (OT)

Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

the OT spoke of Jesus dying for our sin before the NT
was written down

1Cor 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The OT spoke of Jesus resurrection

2Tm 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

not the NT


The NT testifies of what was already written and said in the OT.

 

[cyberlizard]

i agree entirely - apart from the gospels and acts, everything else in the NT is simply a commentary on the OT.

you have to remember the early church did not have a new testament, just a few letters from popular speakers who they liked to listen to...

 

[BrotherDave]

The Bible is a complete revelation of God’s Word to the human race. It is a Holy book (I Thessalonians 2:13, John 1:14, Revelation 22:18); the Word of God. It is where we go to learn about God and it should be used to correct mans understanding. God tells us in 2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” From 2 Timothy 2:15, 1Corinth 2:13 we are told to study and compare scripture with scripture.

We are to learn from the old testament just as much as the new. It is all God’s Word. For example we can read how God has dealt with His people in the past after they strayed from His truth. God’s patience with national Israel is described in the Book of Judges. We see God’s continued patience in I and II Samuel and I and II Kings. This is really parallel to God’s patience with the New Testament churches and congregations. From Revelation 2 and 3, we can see that most of these seven churches were already in trouble with God, indicating that even back to the beginning of the New Testament era; there were problems in the churches. However, God persisted with the New Testament churches for over 1900 years, just like He did with Israel. However, there came a time that judgment fell upon Israel for their increasing wickedness as they strayed from true scripture. For the ten northern tribes, it came in 709 B.C. and for the two southern tribes, known as Judah, it came in 587 B.C. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8) so we can know how he will deal with today’s churches, during this final season (Matt 24, I Peter 4:17). Daniel also speaks of this time (Daniel 7:21 and 25) as does most of Jeremiah.

Believers must know the doctrine of God which is unlocked by scripture (Titus 2, 1 Tim 4:6) so they can know what truth is and not fall victim to false gospels that will not bring salvation. God also has a timetable for revealing the understanding of truth recorded in the Bible. For example read Daniel 12:8-10 or Luke 19:31-34 where Jesus repeatedly told the disciples He would be killed and that He would rise again, they did not understand any of it until after Jesus had risen from the dead. Today we can understand much more than anyone ever has in the past even though the Bible has not changed.

The Bible was produced over a period of about 1500 years and there is exquisite unity and cohesiveness from Genesis through Revelation. Only God could have written it this way. The Bible is the only authority by which we can know what to believe about Christ. This principle is clearly presented when we read about the nature of the Gospel in I Corinthians 15:1-4. In the phrase "according to the scriptures or as it is written" God declares that the Bible is the authority of the Gospel. See also Luke 24:13-48, Luke 4:4, 8, 10.

So, the Old Testament is Christian scripture and just as important as the new.

 

[DailyBlessings]

I don't know that I would refer to the Christian Old Testament as being the same work as the Hebrew Scriptures. The Christian versions of the text are more varied as to which books are included and in what order, and as far as I know, no Christians maintain the traditional order in which the Tanakh is quite purposefully arranged. Order is important: For instance, the Christian version, ending with the books of prophets and a Messianic prophecy, tells a very different story than the arrangement of the Hebrew Scriptures, which conclude with the book of the Chronicles and the implication that Cyrus himself was the Messiah. So no, I would presume the book referenced by the title of the forum as distinct from the Hebrew Scriptures.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

how come this forum is called 'christian scriptures'

the old testament is jewish scriptures.

so either we should have two forums called the above, or one forum simply called scriptures!

1. The Christian Scriptures are made up of two Testaments. The Old Testament, which is shared with the Jews, is a part of the canon of Christian Scriptures. (In fact, only a Christian would call it the "Old" Testament).

2. This is a Christian (or at least Christian-ish) website.

3. Other religions have Scriptures. To title this subforum "Scriptures" would open it up to discussion of the Upanishads, the Bagavhad-Gita, the Qu'ran, the Book of Mormon (which, I know, some would argue is a Christian Scripture), the Tao Te Tsing...

4. Therefore, the title "Christian Scriptures" is about as precise as we will get for a forum dedicated to the discussion of the Old and New Testaments and only the Old and New Testaments.

 

[cyberlizard]

I don't know that I would refer to the Christian Old Testament as being the same work as the Hebrew Scriptures. The Christian versions of the text are more varied as to which books are included and in what order, and as far as I know, no Christians maintain the traditional order in which the Tanakh is quite purposefully arranged. Order is important: For instance, the Christian version, ending with the books of prophets and a Messianic prophecy, tells a very different story than the arrangement of the Hebrew Scriptures, which conclude with the book of the Chronicles and the implication that Cyrus himself was the Messiah. So no, I would presume the book referenced by the title of the forum as distinct from the Hebrew Scriptures.

my bible has the 'old testament' in the same order as the order in which jesus read them. It is called 'complete Jewish bible' and is both 'old and new testaments'.

i say if it was good enough for jesus (the book order), it should be good enough for us.


Steve

p.s. the complete jewish bible besides being cheaper than most others, does not have two columns, the poetry is written as poetry, there are lots of notes at the front. I cannot recommend it highly enough - that said though, the International Standard Version ( http://isv.org ) which is freely d[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]able is to have versions in normal and Tanakh order.

 

[DailyBlessings]

my bible has the 'old testament' in the same order as the order in which jesus read them. It is called 'complete Jewish bible' and is both 'old and new testaments'.

i say if it was good enough for jesus (the book order), it should be good enough for us.


Steve

p.s. the complete jewish bible besides being cheaper than most others, does not have two columns, the poetry is written as poetry, there are lots of notes at the front. I cannot recommend it highly enough - that said though, the International Standard Version ( http://isv.org ) which is freely d[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]able is to have versions in normal and Tanakh order.

That notwithstanding, the forum is describing the study of the Christian Scriptures. The fact that you read directly from the Hebrew Bible, means that you are not reading the rearranged Old Testament that almost all Christians use, and which the forum title refers to. As for what Jesus used, do you mean the Hebrew Tanakh which was in use in Judean temples at the time, or the Greek Septuagint that the Gospel writers quote him as using?

 

[artybloke]

Jesus would have read from the scrolls kept in locked cupboards in the synagogue. The canon of the Jewish scriptures was no more decided in the 1st Century AD than the NT was complete. He would probably have had access to the apocrypha, and possibly to Essene scriptures.

 

[cyberlizard]

for torah observant jews (which jesus would have been), it was a torah requirement that every male make for himself a copy of the Torah.

but as for the post above, it is extremely likely jesus was familiar with the teaching of the essenes, and was more than most definately familar with the apocrapha as every major uprising against the romans started in the galil region....

so when we see 'can anything good come from there' it is said in the context of every time someone rises up from their conflict with the romans follows.


Steve

 

[artybloke]

I doubt very much that a travelling itinerant rabbi would have carried a bunch of heavy parchment scrolls around with him...

I suspect that was true for most Hebrew men; unless they had the money to afford an education (and thus could read), and the room in their houses to keep a bunch of scrolls, they would have been kept in the synagogue, or the temple in Jerusalem, and the scriptor would have them to the congregation.

It may have been a Torah requirement, but I suspect one more honoured in theory than reality.

 

[cyberlizard]

actually, the level of literacy amongst second temple period jews was excellent - people just presume they are dim-witted peasants - nothing could be further from the truth - especially in the galil region.

the command did not require you to carry your scroll - just make one for yourself.

in the second temple period - just like today, it was expected hebrew boys would attend 'yeshva' from age 6 and learn the scriptures - then work at home with mummy and daddy as well.


Steve

 

[artybloke]

actually, the level of literacy amongst second temple period jews was excellent -

You have evidence for this? Or are you just assuming it it was like it is now? And I don't think people who can't read are neccessarily dim-witted. It is still pretty unlikely that anyone but the rich could afford to send their children to "yeshva" - expectations or no expectations - and take them away from work.

 

[cyberlizard]

i will simply point you to this page

http://www.restorationfoundation.org/volume_3/32_6.htm

http://faculty.biu.ac.il/~barilm/bibliter.html

i would also recommend the reading list and bibliographies from any book by marvin wilson.


Steve