Beware when you hear "Trust the Science!"

fide · Jul 5, 2024

I was happy to find this paper - ‘Trust the science’? How the influence of money and AI has killed scientific integrity - with its collection of studies, which reinforced my own experience in "science" in this fallen world. It's a long read, but if you need it, read it, lest you continue to trust fallen men for what God and only God can provide.

The Liar - the father of lies - has left no institution of human beings untouched by his corrupt and corrupting hands. Truth remains here, among us; God is ever faithful. But beware of wolves even in sheep's clothing.

AV1611VET · Jul 5, 2024

fide said:
I was happy to find this paper - ‘Trust the science’? How the influence of money and AI has killed scientific integrity - with its collection of studies, which reinforced my own experience in "science" in this fallen world. It's a long read, but if you need it, read it, lest you continue to trust fallen men for what God and only God can provide.

The Liar - the father of lies - has left no institution of human beings untouched by his corrupt and corrupting hands. Truth remains here, among us; God is ever faithful. But beware of wolves even in sheep's clothing.

Vis-à-vis the Bible, science can take a hike.

Gnarwhal · Jul 5, 2024

fide said:
I was happy to find this paper - ‘Trust the science’? How the influence of money and AI has killed scientific integrity - with its collection of studies, which reinforced my own experience in "science" in this fallen world. It's a long read, but if you need it, read it, lest you continue to trust fallen men for what God and only God can provide.

The Liar - the father of lies - has left no institution of human beings untouched by his corrupt and corrupting hands. Truth remains here, among us; God is ever faithful. But beware of wolves even in sheep's clothing.

It's so frustrating knowing that the field of science owes a lot to the Church and the people in it. In my mind's eye I just imagine the devil with a checklist of things that the Church created or adopted (the scientific method, the university system, etc) and just one by one he corrupts them in the most offensive and heinous ways.

It does make things like the Vatican observatory that much more special though, because you know the research being conducted there isn't to some perverted end like a lot of the pseudo science conducted in secular places for political or ideological ends.

RileyG · Jul 5, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Vis-à-vis the Bible, science can take a hike.

I always appreciate your comments and contribution, even though you are not a Catholic

RileyG · Jul 5, 2024

Gnarwhal said:
It's so frustrating knowing that the field of science owes a lot to the Church and the people in it. In my mind's eye I just imagine the devil with a checklist of things that the Church created or adopted (the scientific method, the university system, etc) and just one by one he corrupts them in the most offensive and heinous ways.

It does make things like the Vatican observatory that much more special though, because you know the research being conducted there isn't to some perverted end like a lot of the pseudo science conducted in secular places for political or ideological ends.

The Big Bang Theory, Genetics, Computer Science ALL owe their thanks to Catholic priests and a nun!

AV1611VET · Jul 5, 2024

RileyG said:
The Big Bang Theory, Genetics, Computer Science ALL owe their thanks to Catholic priests and a nun!

Joshua owes his very existence to a Nun!

Numbers 11:28a And Joshua the son of Nun,

(Sorry ... that's probably old as the hills by now! )

RileyG · Jul 5, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Joshua owes his very existence to a Nun!

Numbers 11:28a And Joshua the son of Nun,

(Sorry ... that's probably old as the hills by now! )

Amen.

fide · Jul 6, 2024

Gnarwhal said:
It's so frustrating knowing that the field of science owes a lot to the Church and the people in it. In my mind's eye I just imagine the devil with a checklist of things that the Church created or adopted (the scientific method, the university system, etc) and just one by one he corrupts them in the most offensive and heinous ways.

It does make things like the Vatican observatory that much more special though, because you know the research being conducted there isn't to some perverted end like a lot of the pseudo science conducted in secular places for political or ideological ends.

My greatest frustration is seeing so much of the (secular) world in the (institutional) Church, even in the hierarchy, even to the extent of (atheist) Free Masons in the Vatican. They (the workers of evil) are very patient, and committed. I was reminded, watching a DVD last night published by EWTN on Saul Alinsky, a testimony by a former communist leader testifying before the committee of Joe McCarthy in the 1950's, that as a communist "we planted in the Catholic Church in the U.S. 800 communists, to enter seminaries" [I think I'm remembering that correctly] and see what they could do to subvert the Catholic Church. I wondered how many of them made their way up the hierarchy ladder to become bishops, archbishops and cardinals. When Pope Paul VI "smelled the smoke of satan" in the Holy Place, he was literally right.

But you're confident about the Vatican observatory?

Solo81 · Jul 6, 2024

fide said:
My greatest frustration is seeing so much of the (secular) world in the (institutional) Church, even in the hierarchy, even to the extent of (atheist) Free Masons in the Vatican. They (the workers of evil) are very patient, and committed. I was reminded, watching a DVD last night published by EWTN on Saul Alinsky, a testimony by a former communist leader testifying before the committee of Joe McCarthy in the 1950's, that as a communist "we planted in the Catholic Church in the U.S. 800 communists, to enter seminaries" [I think I'm remembering that correctly] and see what they could do to subvert the Catholic Church. I wondered how many of them made their way up the hierarchy ladder to become bishops, archbishops and cardinals. When Pope Paul VI "smelled the smoke of satan" in the Holy Place, he was literally right.

But you're confident about the Vatican observatory?

The Vatican Observatory's employees and staff can study and publish findings without fear of losing funding if the results don't offend current trends. Seeing as the VO is astronomical in nature, it is unlikely to upset and offend vociferous social groups and I doubt it would be satan's main area of attack due to its limited influence.
I think you owe the VO an apology for questioning their credibility and integrity with little to no evidence to support you.

God gave satan permission to infiltrate the Church and that time is nearing its end.
He hasn't abandoned His Bride during this period - nor will He - but why focus more on satan's activity than on Jesus' activity? The Church is being renewed and that is happening now, not when satan's influence is finished. You surely aren't suggesting we disregard the Church because satan is attacking her? It's still Christ's Bride...

fide · Jul 6, 2024

Solo81 said:
The Vatican Observatory's employees and staff can study and publish findings without fear of losing funding if the results don't offend current trends. Seeing as the VO is astronomical in nature, it is unlikely to upset and offend vociferous social groups and I doubt it would be satan's main area of attack due to its limited influence.
I think you owe the VO an apology for questioning their credibility and integrity with little to no evidence to support you.

God gave satan permission to infiltrate the Church and that time is nearing its end.
He hasn't abandoned His Bride during this period - nor will He - but why focus more on satan's activity than on Jesus' activity? The Church is being renewed and that is happening now, not when satan's influence is finished. You surely aren't suggesting we disregard the Church because satan is attacking her? It's still Christ's Bride...

EDITED:
Wait a minute! I just read back over my posts - the only mention I made of the Vatican Observatory was, A QUESTION: "But you're confident about the Vatican observatory?" And I asked that as, literally a question. And Not a rhetorical one. And I asked not you but another poster his appraisal of that department, because I have no specific knowledge about the Observatory. I do know something about peer reviews, political group-think correctness and funding issues bending scientific research in general, thus my question.

I apologize for my knee-jerk reaction to your post, which struck me as confrontational just as I was trying to shut off my computer and going elsewhere....
Please consider this below, my initial reaction, as erased:
I see no evidence for your assertions either. I have no interest in debating what is at the foundation of our difference, however. Time will reveal all.

Gnarwhal · Jul 6, 2024

fide said:
My greatest frustration is seeing so much of the (secular) world in the (institutional) Church, even in the hierarchy, even to the extent of (atheist) Free Masons in the Vatican. They (the workers of evil) are very patient, and committed. I was reminded, watching a DVD last night published by EWTN on Saul Alinsky, a testimony by a former communist leader testifying before the committee of Joe McCarthy in the 1950's, that as a communist "we planted in the Catholic Church in the U.S. 800 communists, to enter seminaries" [I think I'm remembering that correctly] and see what they could do to subvert the Catholic Church. I wondered how many of them made their way up the hierarchy ladder to become bishops, archbishops and cardinals. When Pope Paul VI "smelled the smoke of satan" in the Holy Place, he was literally right.

But you're confident about the Vatican observatory?

You paint a bleak, almost defeatist portrait of the Church which has me wonder how one lives and expresses their Catholic faith without "accidentally" submitting to or internalizing any of this communist infiltration, in your estimation?

I know about Bella Dodd, I blame her, the Soviets, and the men she recruited for the sexual scandals that started pouring out into the daylight in the early 2000s.

fide · Jul 7, 2024

Gnarwhal said:
You paint a bleak, almost defeatist portrait of the Church which has me wonder how one lives and expresses their Catholic faith without "accidentally" submitting to or internalizing any of this communist infiltration, in your estimation?

I know about Bella Dodd, I blame her, the Soviets, and the men she recruited for the sexual scandals that started pouring out into the daylight in the early 2000s.

Such a portrait was not my intention. I have read the end of "the book" and know that all ends well - but the times just before the end are not rosey, they are prophesied to demand great fortitude and interior courage based on the solid foundation of holy revealed Truth. The Son of Man asks of when He comes at the end, will He find faith on the earth?

And of the Church - the "seven churches" of Rev. 2 and 3 foresee a grim, tragic reality - leadership of five of them chastised by the Lord and called to repent, only 2 were not, and all in them who are remaining faithful are called to hold fast to their faithfulness to the end, for the beatitude of the Promise. The end times will bring martyrs, many being tsken even now. The Catechism affirms a great trial and suffering, before the end:

CCC 677 - The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.<Cf. Rev 19:1-9> The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.<Cf Rev 13:8; 20:7-10; 21:2-4> God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgement after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.<Cf. Rev 20:12 2 Pt 3:12-13>

There is victory for the just, but only after the coming Cross promised to all who follow Him. This can and will be endured by the faithful through His Grace, sought and received in right disposition. We MUST be not like the foolish, but like the wise virgins who have holy oil sufficient for the darkness, awaiting the Bridegroom with their lamps alight. (Mt 25)

So we must do what we can. These times are not like other times of trial in the past. I hear many wise observers now realizing the truth of this. As Paul cautioned in the first of the last days, this is more true in the final days of them:

Eph 5:14 Therefore it is said, "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light."
Eph 5:15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise,
Eph 5:16 making the most of the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.

Solo81 · Jul 11, 2024

fide said:
EDITED:
Wait a minute! I just read back over my posts - the only mention I made of the Vatican Observatory was, A QUESTION: "But you're confident about the Vatican observatory?" And I asked that as, literally a question. And Not a rhetorical one. And I asked not you but another poster his appraisal of that department, because I have no specific knowledge about the Observatory. I do know something about peer reviews, political group-think correctness and funding issues bending scientific research in general, thus my question.

I apologize for my knee-jerk reaction to your post, which struck me as confrontational just as I was trying to shut off my computer and going elsewhere....
Please consider this below, my initial reaction, as erased:
I see no evidence for your assertions either. I have no interest in debating what is at the foundation of our difference, however. Time will reveal all.

Prophecy is a huge part of the Church's life but you're kinda focusing on the wrong aspects of them - the chastisements only. Conversion is always the theme of prophecies, not punishment.

In 1975, Ralph Martin delivered this alleged message from Jesus, to an audience in Rome that included Pope Paul

Because I love you, I want to show you what I am doing in the world today. I want to prepare you for what is to come. Days of darkness are coming on the world, days of tribulation… Buildings that are now standing will not be standing. Supports that are there for My people now will not be there. I want you to be prepared, My people, to know only Me and to cleave to Me and to have Me in a way deeper than ever before. I will lead you into the desert… I will strip you of everything that you are depending on now, so you depend just on Me. A time of darkness is coming on the world, but a time of glory is coming for My Church, a time of glory is coming for My people. I will pour out on you all the gifts of my Spirit. I will prepare you for spiritual combat; I will prepare you for a time of evangelism that the world has never seen…. And when you have nothing but Me, you will have everything: land, fields, homes, and brothers and sisters and love and joy and peace more than ever before. Be ready, My people, I want to prepare you…

fide · Jul 11, 2024

Solo81 said:
Prophecy is a huge part of the Church's life but you're kinda focusing on the wrong aspects of them - the chastisements only. Conversion is always the theme of prophecies, not punishment.

In 1975, Ralph Martin delivered this alleged message from Jesus, to an audience in Rome that included Pope Paul

Because I love you, I want to show you what I am doing in the world today. I want to prepare you for what is to come. Days of darkness are coming on the world, days of tribulation… Buildings that are now standing will not be standing. Supports that are there for My people now will not be there. I want you to be prepared, My people, to know only Me and to cleave to Me and to have Me in a way deeper than ever before. I will lead you into the desert… I will strip you of everything that you are depending on now, so you depend just on Me. A time of darkness is coming on the world, but a time of glory is coming for My Church, a time of glory is coming for My people. I will pour out on you all the gifts of my Spirit. I will prepare you for spiritual combat; I will prepare you for a time of evangelism that the world has never seen…. And when you have nothing but Me, you will have everything: land, fields, homes, and brothers and sisters and love and joy and peace more than ever before. Be ready, My people, I want to prepare you…

I'll stick with actual prophesies first, then maybe listen to others unless I begin to hear too much of them in them, and too little of Him.

Ace777 · Jul 11, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Vis-à-vis the Bible, science can take a hike.

Is Poe still around somewhere? His law sure is and more true than ever.

The Barbarian · Jul 12, 2024

Gnarwhal said:
It's so frustrating knowing that the field of science owes a lot to the Church and the people in it. In my mind's eye I just imagine the devil with a checklist of things that the Church created or adopted

Gnarwhal said:
(the scientific method,

Ionian Greeks, Alexandrians in the Roman Empire, and Muslim scientists, passed on to Europe later.

Gnarwhal said:
the university system, etc)

UNESCO and the Guinness World Records, have cited al-Qarawiyyin as the oldest university or oldest continually operating higher learning institution in the world.

University of al-Qarawiyyin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

WarriorAngel · Jul 12, 2024

fide said:
I was happy to find this paper - ‘Trust the science’? How the influence of money and AI has killed scientific integrity - with its collection of studies, which reinforced my own experience in "science" in this fallen world. It's a long read, but if you need it, read it, lest you continue to trust fallen men for what God and only God can provide.

The Liar - the father of lies - has left no institution of human beings untouched by his corrupt and corrupting hands. Truth remains here, among us; God is ever faithful. But beware of wolves even in sheep's clothing.

Thankfully, the Church cannot speak in absolutes regarding science studies.

Then again, not even scientists can boast that.

fide · Jul 13, 2024

WarriorAngel said:
Thankfully, the Church cannot speak in absolutes regarding science studies.

Then again, not even scientists can boast that.

Yes, it's a bit foolish to presume that satan stayed away from scientists in his choices of human enterprises to invade, infect, infiltrate and corrupt. In fact, to try to think like himself in prioritizing what, which and whom to work on (and in) first, and next, and then next with his many demon assistant/slaves, what do you think would be second or at least third after choosing the Catholic Church as a prime target? Knowing the probable place of science in the target-rich developing culture of human victims, I suspect he would see scientists as significant opportunities for his efforts.

WarriorAngel · Jul 13, 2024

fide said:
Yes, it's a bit foolish to presume that satan stayed away from scientists in his choices of human enterprises to invade, infect, infiltrate and corrupt. In fact, to try to think like himself in prioritizing what, which and whom to work on (and in) first, and next, and then next with his many demon assistant/slaves, what do you think would be second or at least third after choosing the Catholic Church as a prime target? Knowing the probable place of science in the target-rich developing culture of human victims, I suspect he would see scientists as significant opportunities for his efforts.

Many use science as church.
Then theories change.

How many meds later are found to be cancerous etc.?

Science is study not definite.
They call it theory.

Because ----- they do not know in 100% exactness.
Yet faith in the Church lifts our souls for the next life. For a definite.

I have a video I cannot share because language but he was right on.

Ace777 · Jul 13, 2024

fide said:
Yes, it's a bit foolish to presume that satan stayed away from scientists

You need to pull those reigns in a bit to control those run away horses. Science is designed to know what is true or a fact and what is not. Yes of course they are subject to corruption and payola like so many people are.

Beware when you hear "Trust the Science!"

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