Better Music From Indie. Labels Or Mainstream Media Big Labels?

stonetoflesh · Jan 7, 2005

I don't think we can place all the blame for an indie band's metamorphosis on the major label who acquires them; no one is holding guns to the band members' heads and telling them to sign the contract. At this point any musician with powers of observation will know that by signing with a major label, they're running the risk of allowing the parasites to tinker with their look/sound/formula in one way or another to make it more "appealing" or "marketable". No one has to sign with a major label, it's a conscious decision.

PACKY · Jan 7, 2005

spacedout said:
I don't think we can place all the blame for an indie band's metamorphosis on the major label who acquires them; no one is holding guns to the band members' heads and telling them to sign the contract. At this point it seems that any musician should know that by signing with a major label, they're allowing the parasites to tinker with their formula in one way or another to make it more "appealing" or "marketable"; to think that their band is going to be the big exception is naive at best.

Very true,,,, label execss or "talent scouts" are in teh business of making promises.... i am sure we have all been talked into something we really didnt need?... then again ,most musicians by the time they make it Big are sick and tired of eating " goverment cheese and sleeping in a van down the river", they are in most instances getting a little older and thinking of settling down,
( I draw this conclusion from articles i have read in various zine's)

stonetoflesh · Jan 7, 2005

Agreed. I've been hearing for ten years at least about how corrupt and terrible the industry is. Hip bands & artists will go on about how they love their label and would never embrace the "evil empire" or whatever-- a couple years later they're in bed with those they vilified. Gotta pay the bills somehow, but it doesn't seem that wise to sign a contract with an industry that has a reputation for screwing over its talent once said talent's usefulness is past...

PACKY · Jan 7, 2005

true thats why I do my best to support Indie music.. that way the Big labels arent getting rewarded for their corruption,and ill treatment of artists... remember the fish rots from the head and we the consumers are the head.

nadroj1985 · Jan 7, 2005

More deep thoughts from nadroj

ps139 said:
Well it really depends on what you mean by "going mainstream."

Well, my point is that I don't think that it depends on that, really. Either way, it's a bias, and we all have biases.

If they changed their music style, and "sold out," then yeah the kid is probably "right" in that his band is not like they used to be, and he doesnt like them anymore.

but if he stops liking them solely because a lot more people start to like them, well then he is really not about the music, is he?

Nope, he's not. And my point is that none of us are, really, though we might like to think so. God knows we've come up with very elaborate ways of concealing all our biases, maybe to the point that we've forgotten that we have them, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still there and very active. To be human is to be biased, to not be able to look at the music just "as it is."

ps139 · Jan 7, 2005

Nope, he's not. And my point is that none of us are, really, though we might like to think so. God knows we've come up with very elaborate ways of concealing all our biases, maybe to the point that we've forgotten that we have them, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still there and very active. To be human is to be biased, to not be able to look at the music just "as it is."

Alright there Mr. Nadroj.
I love many styles of music. Rock, classical, jazz, trance, house, bluegrass, jambands, "The Rat Pack," opera, rap, r&b.....
And there are plenty of songs in those genres that I can't stand!
So I don't really know what you are getting at with the 'biases" thing.... If I like a song, I like it, I dont care who its by or what genre it is. And I tend to think thats a whole nother ballgame than the kid who stops liking a band just because they became popular. I do not see how you can throw me and him (whoever he may be) in the same category of musical appreciation.

nadroj1985 · Jan 7, 2005

ps139 said:
Alright there Mr. Nadroj.
I love many styles of music. Rock, classical, jazz, trance, house, bluegrass, jambands, "The Rat Pack," opera, rap, r&b.....
And there are plenty of songs in those genres that I can't stand!
So I don't really know what you are getting at with the 'biases" thing.... If I like a song, I like it, I dont care who its by or what genre it is. And I tend to think thats a whole nother ballgame than the kid who stops liking a band just because they became popular. I do not see how you can throw me and him (whoever he may be) in the same category of musical appreciation.

Well, this is the same debate we've had before, basically. It comes down to basic philosophical differences, so this probably isn't the place to debate it. Humans are necessarily subjective and biased, from my point of view, and it is useless for me to say I'm less biased than someone else, just because their biases seem of a different nature than mine. At bottom, I don't know why I like any given piece of music, and that's OK, because the "why" is not the point- the actual enjoyment is what matters. But that does mean that I can't point out someone's reasons for liking a piece of music as better or worse than my own, because neither of us have any "objective" reasons, reasons that are external to both of us.

And you disagree with that. Which is fine

ps139 · Jan 7, 2005

Jordan, really... you do not see a difference between someone who enjoys a song for the song (and not which artist plays it) and the person who "likes" a song based on its popularity level?

There are lots of people who like songs only because they are popular, and lots who like them only because they are unpopular, or underground.

I'm not denying their right to enjoy the song, I'm only saying that their reasoning for like or dislike is not one based on the actual music, it is one based on superficials.

nadroj1985 · Jan 7, 2005

ps139 said:
Jordan, really... you do not see a difference between someone who enjoys a song for the song (and not which artist plays it) and the person who "likes" a song based on its popularity level?

No. I'm saying the former type does not exist- cannot exist. Generally, that type of person has hidden his biases better, or his biases are by their nature more obscure. But they are still as foundationless as the other person's, because there is no foundation, or if there is one, we can't get at it.

There are lots of people who like songs only because they are popular, and lots who like them only because they are unpopular, or underground.

And then there are people like me, who likes them because a chord change gives me a little tingly feeling all over. What's the difference?

I'm not denying their right to enjoy the song, I'm only saying that their reasoning for like or dislike is not one based on the actual music, it is one based on superficials.

And I'm saying that all of it is based on superficials, whether we recognize it or not. My tingly feelings are just as superficial as someone's need to like a band because it's popular/indie/etc.

PACKY · Jan 7, 2005

whoa... what happened to my thread?

twosteppin · Jan 7, 2005

I feel like I am in my psychology class. I knew I would feel this way all along, and thats not just my hindsight Bias talking.
auhh I crack myself up sometimes......

funyun · Jan 7, 2005

It depends for me. I don't like the terms "mainstream" and "indie", as if one means you're a conformist and one means you're emo, and I dislike raising my flag solely above either camp. I mostly listen to older music, from classic rock to classical, even some foreign (Tinariwen, which I recommend). As far as new music goes, I'm not that impressed, but artists like Bright Eyes, The Mars Volta, and Radiohead give me hope for the future, when we don't have to automatically write off popular music.

nadroj1985 · Jan 7, 2005

BLESSEDBETHEMEEK said:
whoa... what happened to my thread?

Sorry

Me and Bill have had this conversation before, and I probably bring it up too much. I'll stop the derail here and let Bill start a new thread on it or PM me if he wants to continue.

blackwasp · Jan 7, 2005

twosteppin said:
Yeah, i've heard MM isnt too great live.

I've really liked what I've streamed, but hopefully I will be able to attend their shows in Chicago and St. Louis in late February.

twosteppin said:
Modest Mouse is now mainstream...and they are still talented. good for them

I don't know how talented MM is, and I don't know how much it matters. If you listen to some of their older material, the songs are pretty basic, but they are completely MM...it isn't like they are strumming the same chords over and over. Despite the simplicity though, I find it most moving. Vocally and lyrically though, I would argue that they are very talented, but that is my subjective opinion (as Jordan has enlightened us ). Whether they are talented or untalented is up to the individual's opinion, I suppose. Regardless, "Bankrupt on Selling" is one of the most moving songs (to me) that I have ever heard, and it doesn't bother me if no one else likes it.

blackwasp · Jan 7, 2005

nadroj1985 said:
Not to pick on you personally, but I'm starting to wonder whether that's a fair statement to make, although I've said the same sort of thing countless times before. I'm even beginning to question whether it's an ideal worth striving for. The more I think about why I like a given piece of music, the more I have to admit that I can only do so under my (sometimes very petty, non-musical) biases, and I tend to think that everyone else has this problem, too.

Granted, some people's biases are more obvious than others- it seems to me that when we berate the indie kid who stops liking Modest Mouse because they went mainstream, we really shouldn't disparage him for having an unfair bias, but for not hiding his bias as well as we have

Brilliant!

ps139 said:
I cant stand people who only listen to Indie just because its Indie, and then stop liking the band if they get big and popular. If the band changes its music and caves in to the record label thats one thing, but that doesnt always happen.

Agreed.

Mainstream music is simply what the major labels think will bring in the most money. I don't blame major labels for not touching indie bands that wouldn't make them a profit. Does this make the indie music worse? Heavens no. Does this make major labels good or bad? I'm not really sure. Every now and then a band like Nirvana will come along that is punk, alternative, indie, whatever you want to call it, that can be marketed for mass success.

jbgordon · Jan 8, 2005

I also hate when people listen to indie JUST B/C its indie. I love indie music b/c the majority of it is actually good, but there are some indie bands that people listen to JUST B/C they're indie that is TERRIBLE. I think its the same with mainstream music in the sense that even though a band is horrible, people listen b/c its popular and they dont have enough sense or courage to stand up and say, "hey, this is terrible."

PACKY · Jan 8, 2005

s1m4m said:
I also hate when people listen to indie JUST B/C its indie. I love indie music b/c the majority of it is actually good, but there are some indie bands that people listen to JUST B/C they're indie that is TERRIBLE. I think its the same with mainstream music in the sense that even though a band is horrible, people listen b/c its popular and they dont have enough sense or courage to stand up and say, "hey, this is terrible."

Some indie music is horrible i agree .....I have my radio on sometimes also and have bought mainstream music.. take musoc for hat it is on its merits I still feel however that getting a contract with a big label is a lot like being a indentured servent.

Carmack · Jan 8, 2005

Indie, of course.

PACKY · Jan 8, 2005

Carmack said:
Indie, of course.

can i get a AMEN !!!!

funyun · Jan 8, 2005

s1m4m said:
I also hate when people listen to indie JUST B/C its indie. I love indie music b/c the majority of it is actually good, but there are some indie bands that people listen to JUST B/C they're indie that is TERRIBLE. I think its the same with mainstream music in the sense that even though a band is horrible, people listen b/c its popular and they dont have enough sense or courage to stand up and say, "hey, this is terrible."

Right. To me, that's a form of hypocracy. Some people just listen to indie music cuz it's the cool thing to do, and listening to any mainstream music means you just have bad taste. But by making indie music shallow like that, they are just being what they calim to hate.

Better Music From Indie. Labels Or Mainstream Media Big Labels?

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