Bells and Pomegranates

[Sophia7]

Here is a quote from Ellen White, and I want to compare it to what the Bible says:

I saw a throne, and on it sat the Father and the Son. I gazed on Jesus' countenance and admired His lovely person. The Father's person I could not behold, for a cloud of glorious light covered Him. I asked Jesus if His Father had a form like Himself. He said He had, but I could not behold it, for said He, "If you should once behold the glory of His person, you would cease to exist." Before the throne I saw the Advent people--the church and the world. I saw two companies, one bowed down before the throne, deeply interested, while the other stood uninterested and careless. Those who were bowed before the throne would offer up their prayers and look to Jesus; then He would look to His Father, and appear to be pleading with Him. A light would come from the Father to the Son and from the Son to the praying company. Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from the Father to the Son, and from the Son it waved over the people before the throne. But few would receive this great light. Many came out from under it and immediately resisted it; others were careless and did not cherish the light, and it moved off from them. Some cherished it, and went and bowed down with the little praying company. This company all received the light and rejoiced in it, and their countenances shone with its glory. {EW 54.2}

I saw the Father rise from the throne, [SEE PAGE 92.] and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him. I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. Those who arose when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on Him as He left the throne and led them out a little way. Then He raised His right arm, and we heard His lovely voice saying, "Wait here; I am going to My Father to receive the kingdom; keep your garments spotless, and in a little while I will return from the wedding and receive you to Myself." Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. On the hem of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Those who rose up with Jesus would send up their faith to Him in the holiest, and pray, "My Father, give us Thy Spirit." Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost. In that breath was light, power, and much love, joy, and peace. {EW 55.1}

I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children.
​

Please notice the words that I highlighted in bold above. Now here is Leviticus 16:

LEV 16:1 The LORD spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron who died when they approached the LORD. 2 The LORD said to Moses: "Tell your brother Aaron not to come whenever he chooses into the Most Holy Place behind the curtain in front of the atonement cover on the ark, or else he will die, because I appear in the cloud over the atonement cover.

LEV 16:3 "This is how Aaron is to enter the sanctuary area: with a young bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering. 4 He is to put on the sacred linen tunic, with linen undergarments next to his body; he is to tie the linen sash around him and put on the linen turban. These are sacred garments; so he must bathe himself with water before he puts them on. 5 From the Israelite community he is to take two male goats for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering.

LEV 16:6 "Aaron is to offer the bull for his own sin offering to make atonement for himself and his household. 7 Then he is to take the two goats and present them before the LORD at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 8 He is to cast lots for the two goats--one lot for the LORD and the other for the scapegoat. 9 Aaron shall bring the goat whose lot falls to the LORD and sacrifice it for a sin offering. 10 But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD to be used for making atonement by sending it into the desert as a scapegoat.

LEV 16:11 "Aaron shall bring the bull for his own sin offering to make atonement for himself and his household, and he is to slaughter the bull for his own sin offering. 12 He is to take a censer full of burning coals from the altar before the LORD and two handfuls of finely ground fragrant incense and take them behind the curtain. 13 He is to put the incense on the fire before the LORD, and the smoke of the incense will conceal the atonement cover above the Testimony, so that he will not die. 14 He is to take some of the bull's blood and with his finger sprinkle it on the front of the atonement cover; then he shall sprinkle some of it with his finger seven times before the atonement cover.

LEV 16:15 "He shall then slaughter the goat for the sin offering for the people and take its blood behind the curtain and do with it as he did with the bull's blood: He shall sprinkle it on the atonement cover and in front of it. 16 In this way he will make atonement for the Most Holy Place because of the uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been. He is to do the same for the Tent of Meeting, which is among them in the midst of their uncleanness. 17 No one is to be in the Tent of Meeting from the time Aaron goes in to make atonement in the Most Holy Place until he comes out, having made atonement for himself, his household and the whole community of Israel.

LEV 16:18 "Then he shall come out to the altar that is before the LORD and make atonement for it. He shall take some of the bull's blood and some of the goat's blood and put it on all the horns of the altar. 19 He shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger seven times to cleanse it and to consecrate it from the uncleanness of the Israelites.

LEV 16:20 "When Aaron has finished making atonement for the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting and the altar, he shall bring forward the live goat. 21 He is to lay both hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the wickedness and rebellion of the Israelites--all their sins--and put them on the goat's head. He shall send the goat away into the desert in the care of a man appointed for the task. 22 The goat will carry on itself all their sins to a solitary place; and the man shall release it in the desert.

LEV 16:23 "Then Aaron is to go into the Tent of Meeting and take off the linen garments he put on before he entered the Most Holy Place, and he is to leave them there. 24 He shall bathe himself with water in a holy place and put on his regular garments. Then he shall come out and sacrifice the burnt offering for himself and the burnt offering for the people, to make atonement for himself and for the people. 25 He shall also burn the fat of the sin offering on the altar.

LEV 16:26 "The man who releases the goat as a scapegoat must wash his clothes and bathe himself with water; afterward he may come into the camp. 27 The bull and the goat for the sin offerings, whose blood was brought into the Most Holy Place to make atonement, must be taken outside the camp; their hides, flesh and offal are to be burned up. 28 The man who burns them must wash his clothes and bathe himself with water; afterward he may come into the camp.

LEV 16:29 "This is to be a lasting ordinance for you: On the tenth day of the seventh month you must deny yourselves and not do any work--whether native-born or an alien living among you-- 30 because on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the LORD, you will be clean from all your sins. 31 It is a sabbath of rest, and you must deny yourselves; it is a lasting ordinance. 32 The priest who is anointed and ordained to succeed his father as high priest is to make atonement. He is to put on the sacred linen garments 33 and make atonement for the Most Holy Place, for the Tent of Meeting and the altar, and for the priests and all the people of the community.

LEV 16:34 "This is to be a lasting ordinance for you: Atonement is to be made once a year for all the sins of the Israelites."
And it was done, as the LORD commanded Moses.​

According to this passage, the high priest wore the sacred linen garments into the Most Holy Place, not the blue robe with the pomegranates and bells. The high priest was supposed to put that on, along with his other regular garments, after he finished making atonement in the MHP. If Jesus really entered the heavenly MHP in 1844 to fulfill the Day of Atonement type, He shouldn't have been wearing the bells and pomegranates either. What Ellen White saw in vision contradicts the Bible.

 

[Avonia]

What Ellen White saw in vision contradicts the Bible.

I wonder why we demand inerrancy from visions? It's like demanding inerrancy from dreams. The person is an aspect of the total media. At some point, even if the vision is "perfect" it still must be transmitted through the human and be subject to the reduction and abstraction of language.

Then the reader must morph language back into knowledge and insight. They then take this and share it with others, and the chain gets longer!

 

[mva1985]

I wonder why we demand inerrancy from visions? It's like demanding inerrancy from dreams. The person is an aspect of the total media. At some point, even if the vision is "perfect" it still must be transmitted through the human and be subject to the reduction and abstraction of language.

Then the reader must morph language back into knowledge and insight. They then take this and share it with others, and the chain gets longer!

Interesting.

 

[Eila]

I wonder why we demand inerrancy from visions? It's like demanding inerrancy from dreams. The person is an aspect of the total media. At some point, even if the vision is "perfect" it still must be transmitted through the human and be subject to the reduction and abstraction of language.

Then the reader must morph language back into knowledge and insight. They then take this and share it with others, and the chain gets longer!

How would SDAs be able to base their beliefs on prophecies in Daniel and Revelation that were given through visions if the visions are subject to error? What if it wasn't 2300 days, but 1300 instead? What if Daniel made a mistake?

 

[StormyOne]

the analogy breaks down at some point and people refuse to admit that... likewise Paul was comparing the levitical priesthood with what Christ did to show that what Christ did was superior in every way. Paul was not suggesting that Christ was continuing in heaven what he put an end to here on earth.... however some folks persist in believing that Christ is ministering in a Most Holy Place.... common sense would tell you that there is no blood in heaven nor no sin so there would be no need for a cleansing.... stop the insanity already....

 

[NightEternal]

No doubt Stormy. As if sins are some physical commodity that can be transferred from place to place like a fed-ex envelope!

I am amazed that there are still Adventists who forgo the beautiful symbolism of Hebrews for a hyper-literal interpretation of a an actual building set up somewhere in a corner of Heaven where Jesus is confined like some celestial prisoner, walking around a literal room for years and years in literal priestly garments, literally splattering and applying his blood everywhere.

Insanity indeed. We are the laughingstock of the greater Christian world because of the hyper-literal nonsense being proffered by the right-wing in this area of our doctrine.

Even Roy Adams, in his book The Sanctuary, admits the sheer absurdity of this!

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]--[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]THE SANCTUARY -- The Heart of Adventist Theology --Roy Adams [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"In 1905 Albion Fox Ballenger fell under the wrath of Adventist Church leaders for teaching, among other things, that the atonement was finished at the cross. His trial was held in a small building in Takoma Park, Maryland, at the site of the church's General Conference session that year. Milian Lauritz Andreasen, then a young unordained minister, tells how he and fellow minister L. H. Christian took turns standing on each other's shoulders so as to eavesdrop on the proceedings at that predawn inquiry. Under the light of day, as other meetings of the session proceeded, Andreasen took time to canvass the views of the embattled pariah. With much time on his hands - so few of the more experienced brethren had time for him - Ballenger shared freely. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The irony of the situation was to come some 50 years later when Andreasen found himself at serious loggerheads with church leaders over the very question of the atonement - among others. This time, curiously, it was the church that defended the view of a finished atonement at the cross, with Andreasen digging in his heels for an unfinished atonement, the very position church leaders were championing in 1905." (pp. 12-13)[/FONT]

We should [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]not approach the doctrine of the sanctuary as if the church has learned nothing new since our pioneers fell asleep.Theology, therefore, is never static. We [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ought to be able to see a little farther than they did." (p.13)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Hebrews reasons principally by contrast and less by comparison. This means that the movement is from the new to the old as much as, or even more than, from the old to the new." (p. 49)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"It is the heavenly and not the earthly that is genuine. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The earthly was but a pale shadow, a temporary device pointing to the real.... The real will explain the shadow, and not vice versa." (p. 50) [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Neither the structure of the earthly tabernacle, nor its services should be used as a basis for detailing the heavenly sanctuary. While some general conclusions about the heavenly sanctuary and its services may be reached by studying the shadowy outline of the earthly sanctuary, care should be taken not to press these points too far. The heavenly sanctuary is better described as an archetype than an antitype and thus our reasoning concerning the sanctuary should be in the reverse direction to that which it usually takes. The true nature of the type can only be distinguished by first understanding the archetype, not vice versa." (Exegesis of Selected Passages of Hebrews 8 and 9, pp. 7-8)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"It is better to see and study the great realities of the sacrifice and priestly ministry of Christ than to dwell too much upon the details of the typical service, which gave an inadequate portrayal of the sacrifice and ministry of Christ. Far better to interpret the earthly tabernacle in the light of the heavenly, rather than to circumscribe the antitypical realities oy the limitations of too close an application of the type." (p. 79)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Images are useful up to a point, and beyond that point they can become deceptive." (p. 63)[/FONT]

"Hebrews is meant to speak about the unspeakable, to comprehend the incomprehensible, however dimly." (p.64)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I prefer to see the heavenly sanctuary as the dwelling place of God, the seat of His government, the nerve center of the universe. As such, it has always existed," (p. 71)[/FONT]

"Ballenger's [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]basic contention as regards the defilement of the sanctuary was correct." (p. 87) [/FONT]

 

[NightEternal]

Adams then turns his attention to those in Adventism who take a rigid, uncompromising position of literalism on the sanctuary doctrine: “Doesn’t such literalism concerning the heavenly / earthly sanctuary constitute a serious impediment in our sanctuary apologetics-the way we present the doctrine to non-Adventists and even to skeptics? Might it actually distort the message of God?” (p.43) I had never thought of this before. Once again, Adams has gotten my wheels turning. He proceeds to offer a variety of theories concerning how and what God revealed to Moses in regards to the Heavenly sanctuary. Adams then opts for what he believes is the most plausible scenario: “God may have shown Moses the Heavenly sanctuary itself and then was provided a miniature model of the earthly sanctuary.” (p.44) This sounds like a very reasonable assertion in my opinion. Adams does indeed have what he himself refers to as ‘sanctified common sense’. Case in point: “The grandeur of the Heavenly sanctuary would have been absolutely overwhelming to be of any practical use to Moses.” (p.44) Literalists who won’t concede one inch would do well to really think about that statement.

Adams is clearly trying to raise legitimate questions about what is meant by the word ‘pattern’ in the book of Hebrews. Using the fact that there are many contrasting elements between Christ and the actual, literal sacrificial lamb as just one of his many examples, he maintains that the idea of pattern should be understood primarily deeper functional and theological level. I have to agree, as much as it goes against what tradition has ingrained into my way of thinking on the sanctuary doctrine. I must admit that I have always had reservations about the idea of Christ being confined in the Most Holy room of the Heavenly tabernacle, dressed in His priestly garbs, carrying a censer and pleading His blood to the Father for well over a thousand years. Adams, with tongue in cheek, even has fun with the idea of a ‘Heavenly bakery’ that is there to prepare the showbread when necessary. Certainly it must get stale after sitting in the Heavenly sanctuary for thousands of years, right?

He goes even further: “We must struggle to show not how much things in Heaven resemble those on earth, but how different and inferior things on earth are when set against the Heavenly reality.” (p.50) Amen. Adams makes it crystal clear: “It would be inappropriate to look for mathematical one on one correspondence between the earthly type and the Heavenly reality. The word pattern cannot carry the freight with which many try to burden it.” (p.50) But of all his powerful statements, this was one of the many that really got me thinking about our traditional position:

‘If both the wilderness tabernacle and the Jerusalem temple were constructed according to a Heavenly pattern, how can ‘pattern’ be understood in a strictly literal sense when in so many details the two structures exhibited such striking dissimilarities? Such differences ought to steer us away from dogmatizing about the exact appearance of the Heavenly sanctuary based on our knowledge of the earthly. The safer approach is to concentrate on the theological significance rather than on structural specification.” (p.54)

If we are to have any integrity as a worldwide religious organization, we must agree that there are some serious problems that arise with the literalist position on this doctrine. We have to be brutally honest with ourselves as a denomination concerning this issue. We need to ask some hard questions. Can we say without a doubt that the literalism position is sound theologically and Biblically, or have we canonized the doctrine of the Heavenly sanctuary merely because it is the only belief that sets us apart from the slew of other protestant denominations? Later on in the book Adams rightly reassures the reader about what his intentions are and are not: “The existence of the Heavenly sanctuary is not under discussion here; let me be clear that there is a sanctuary in Heaven.” Lest anyone think that Adams is promoting heresy or on the road to apostasy, he settles his position in no uncertain terms. Of course he will still be accused of removing a major pillar of our faith; however that cannot be avoided when narrow thinking is met head on. It seems that no matter how carefully you set forth a proposition or new idea, there will always be the ones present who will totally misconstrue or even slander what is really trying to be said. This is par for the course in any denomination, and these individuals are properly recognized and rightfully ignored. If they cannot be constructive, then they are best left to their own overblown, paranoid ideas of heresy and apostasy. Adams said it best in his book The Nature Of Christ: If the work of Satan is not in what fanatics do, then he does not exist.

Adams has hit upon what I think is key here in this issue. He points to Christ as the application we should make in dealing with the various tabernacle items: Substituting the cross for the sacrificial altar, Christ the bread of life for the shewbread, Christ the light of the world for the lamp stand etc. This makes more sense than the alternative, and the more Adams uses humor to make his point, the more ludicrous it seems to take the literal stand: “There are some who perceive the Heavenly sanctuary as a building that God erected on some vacant lot in Heaven following the entrance of sin on the earth so that Jesus can minister in it.” (p.70) He has more than challenged the reader in his observations, something Adams is very adept in doing with all of his books. I can do no less than agree with his assertions thus far.

http://www.heavenlysanctuary.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20040311180732858

 

[Sophia7]

the analogy breaks down at some point and people refuse to admit that... likewise Paul was comparing the levitical priesthood with what Christ did to show that what Christ did was superior in every way. Paul was not suggesting that Christ was continuing in heaven what he put an end to here on earth.... however some folks persist in believing that Christ is ministering in a Most Holy Place.... common sense would tell you that there is no blood in heaven nor no sin so there would be no need for a cleansing.... stop the insanity already....

One of the major problems with the traditional Adventist sanctuary doctrine is that it depends on literalistic interpretations of the Levitical types, but anything that doesn't fit with the Adventist view is conveniently explained away as not a perfect representation. It's very inconsistent and self-serving. That's why I brought up this subject.

Traditional Adventist arguments on the sanctuary focus too much on the types to interpret the antitypes. It has to be the other way around; the shadows can be illuminated only by the light of their fulfillment in Christ. He is the reality.

 

[DarylFawcett]

Sophia,

Here is how Lev 16:23 KJV reads:

Lev 16:23 And Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall put off the linen garments, which he put on when he went into the holy place, and shall leave them there:

What version did you use that translates it as the Most Holy Place?

 

[DarylFawcett]

This is from Exodux 28:34 -->

Exo 28:34 A golden bell and a pomegranate, a golden bell and a pomegranate, upon the hem of the robe round about.
Exo 28:35 And it shall be upon Aaron to minister: and his sound shall be heard when he goeth in unto the holy place before the LORD, and when he cometh out, that he die not.

So which is it, or is the Bible even contradicting Itself?

 

[DarylFawcett]

By the way, if the one in Lev. 16:23 can be translated as the Most Holy Place, then Ex. 28:35 can also be translated as the Most Holy Place.

 

[Sophia7]

By the way, if the one in Lev. 16:23 can be translated as the Most Holy Place, then Ex. 28:35 can also be translated as the Most Holy Place.

Exodus 28 describes all of the garments that were made for the high priest. It does not specifically address which items he wore into the MHP on the Day of Atonement. Daryl, are you denying that Leviticus 16 is talking about the high priest's entrance into the MHP on the Day of Atonement? Check the context.

 

[DarylFawcett]

I will do that and more before responding, however, respond I will after I have done more research on this.

 

[Sophia7]

Here is Leviticus 16 in the NASB. Pay close attention especially to verse 2, which uses the term holy place in a clear reference to the MHP.

1 Now the LORD spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they had approached the presence of the LORD and died.
2 The LORD said to Moses: "Tell your brother Aaron that he shall not enter at any time into the holy place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, or he will die; for I will appear in the cloud over the mercy seat.
3 "Aaron shall enter the holy place with this: with a bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering.
4 "He shall put on the holy linen tunic, and the linen undergarments shall be next to his body, and he shall be girded with the linen sash and attired with the linen turban (these are holy garments) Then he shall bathe his body in water and put them on.
5 "He shall take from the congregation of the sons of Israel two male goats for a sin offering and one ram for a burnt offering.
6 "Then Aaron shall offer the bull for the sin offering which is for himself, that he may make atonement for himself and for his household.
7 "He shall take the two goats and present them before the LORD at the doorway of the tent of meeting.
8 "Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats, one lot for the LORD and the other lot for the scapegoat.
9 "Then Aaron shall offer the goat on which the lot for the LORD fell, and make it a sin offering.
10 "But the goat on which the lot for the scapegoat fell shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make atonement upon it, to send it into the wilderness as the scapegoat.
11 "Then Aaron shall offer the bull of the sin offering which is for himself and make atonement for himself and for his household, and he shall slaughter the bull of the sin offering which is for himself.
12 "He shall take a firepan full of coals of fire from upon the altar before the LORD and two handfuls of finely ground sweet incense, and bring it inside the veil.
13 "He shall put the incense on the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the ark of the testimony, otherwise he will die.
14 "Moreover, he shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; also in front of the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times.
15 "Then he shall slaughter the goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood inside the veil and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and in front of the mercy seat.
16 "He shall make atonement for the holy place, because of the impurities of the sons of Israel and because of their transgressions in regard to all their sins; and thus he shall do for the tent of meeting which abides with them in the midst of their impurities.
17 "When he goes in to make atonement in the holy place, no one shall be in the tent of meeting until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself and for his household and for all the assembly of Israel.
18 "Then he shall go out to the altar that is before the LORD and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and of the blood of the goat and put it on the horns of the altar on all sides.
19 "With his finger he shall sprinkle some of the blood on it seven times and cleanse it, and from the impurities of the sons of Israel consecrate it.
20 "When he finishes atoning for the holy place and the tent of meeting and the altar, he shall offer the live goat.
21 "Then Aaron shall lay both of his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the sons of Israel and all their transgressions in regard to all their sins; and he shall lay them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who stands in readiness.
22 "The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to a solitary land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
23 "Then Aaron shall come into the tent of meeting and take off the linen garments which he put on when he went into the holy place, and shall leave them there.
24 "He shall bathe his body with water in a holy place and put on his clothes, and come forth and offer his burnt offering and the burnt offering of the people and make atonement for himself and for the people.
25 "Then he shall offer up in smoke the fat of the sin offering on the altar.
26 "The one who released the goat as the scapegoat shall wash his clothes and bathe his body with water; then afterward he shall come into the camp.
27 "But the bull of the sin offering and the goat of the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall be taken outside the camp, and they shall burn their hides, their flesh, and their refuse in the fire.
28 "Then the one who burns them shall wash his clothes and bathe his body with water, then afterward he shall come into the camp.
29 "This shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you; 30 for it is on this day that atonement shall be made for you to cleanse you; you will be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
31 "It is to be a sabbath of solemn rest for you, that you may humble your souls; it is a permanent statute.
32 "So the priest who is anointed and ordained to serve as priest in his father's place shall make atonement: he shall thus put on the linen garments, the holy garments,
33 and make atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make atonement for the tent of meeting and for the altar. He shall also make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly.
34 "Now you shall have this as a permanent statute, to make atonement for the sons of Israel for all their sins once every year." And just as the LORD had commanded Moses, so he did.
​

The context of the whole chapter is the Day of Atonement. The Hebrew term that is translated holy place here can be used in reference to the whole sanctuary, and it can also be used in reference to specific parts of the sanctuary, including the most holy place. Context determines meaning.

 

[Sophia7]

Here are a couple of quotes. The first is regarding the legend of the cord around the priest's ankle:

As yet, we have not located the original source, but apparently it originated long after the last Jewish Temple was gone. The biblical and historical evidence indicates that there was no rope, at least not in any common use.

Dr. W.E. Nunnally, a professor of Hebrew and early Judaism, has reported:

“The rope on the high priest legend is just that: a legend. It has obscure beginnings in the Middle Ages and keeps getting repeated. It cannot be found anywhere in the Bible, the Apocrypha, the Dead Sea Scrolls, Josephus, the Pseudepigrapha, the Talmud, Mishna, or any other Jewish source. It just is not there.”

The Biblical Studies Foundation (loosely associated with Dallas Theological Seminary), similarly reports that their research has put the “the rope around the ankle-or-waist-or-maybe-the-leg” legend “to rest.” They also point out that Aaron was to wear a blue ephod with bells on its hem (Exodus 28:31-35), when he entered the Holy Place (not the Holy of Holies) (Leviticus 16:2-4). When he enters the Holy of Holies, he washes and wears special linen garments, not the ephod with bells. “If there are no bells to jingle, there is no need for the rope either.” (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/anklerope.html)
​

Here is a quote from Easton's Bible Dictionary, also:

High priest

Aaron was the first who was solemnly set apart to this office (Exodus 29:7; 30:23; Leviticus 8:12). He wore a peculiar dress, which on his death passed to his successor in office (Exodus 29:29, 30). Besides those garments which he wore in common with all priests, there were four that were peculiar to himself as high priest:

(1.) The "robe" of the ephod, all of blue, of "woven work," worn immediately under the ephod. It was without seam or sleeves. The hem or skirt was ornamented with pomegranates and golden bells, seventy-two of each in alternate order. The sounding of the bells intimated to the people in the outer court the time when the high priest entered into the holy place to burn incense before the Lord (Exodus 28).

(2.) The "ephod" consisted of two parts, one of which covered the back and the other the breast, which were united by the "curious girdle." It was made of fine twined linen, and ornamented with gold and purple. Each of the shoulder-straps was adorned with a precious stone, on which the names of the twelve tribes were engraved. This was the high priest's distinctive vestment (1 Samuel 2:28; 14:3; 21:9; 23:6, 9; 30:7).

(3.) The "breastplate of judgment" (Exodus 28:6-12, 25-28; 39:2-7) of "cunning work." It was a piece of cloth doubled, of one span square. It bore twelve precious stones, set in four rows of three in a row, which constituted the Urim and Thummim (q.v.). These stones had the names of the twelve tribes engraved on them. When the high priest, clothed with the ephod and the breastplate, inquired of the Lord, answers were given in some mysterious way by the Urim and Thummim (1 Samuel 14:3, 18, 19; 23:2, 4, 9, 11, 12; 28:6; 2 Samuel 5:23).

(4.) The "mitre," or upper turban, a twisted band of eight yards of fine linen coiled into a cap, with a gold plate in front, engraved with "Holiness to the Lord," fastened to it by a ribbon of blue.

To the high priest alone it was permitted to enter the holy of holies, which he did only once a year, on the great Day of Atonement, for "the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest" (Hebrews 9; 10). Wearing his gorgeous priestly vestments, he entered the temple before all the people, and then, laying them aside and assuming only his linen garments in secret, he entered the holy of holies alone, and made expiation, sprinkling the blood of the sin offering on the mercy seat, and offering up incense. Then resuming his splendid robes, he reappeared before the people (Leviticus 16). Thus the wearing of these robes came to be identified with the Day of Atonement.

The office, dress, and ministration of the high priest were typical of the priesthood of our Lord (Hebrews 4:14; 7:25; 9:12, etc.).

It is supposed that there were in all eighty-three high priests, beginning with Aaron (B.C. 1657) and ending with Phannias (A.D. 70). At its first institution the office of high priest was held for life (but Comp. 1 Kings 2:27), and was hereditary in the family of Aaron (Numbers 3:10). The office continued in the line of Eleazar, Aaron's eldest son, for two hundred and ninety-six years, when it passed to Eli, the first of the line of Ithamar, who was the fourth son of Aaron. In this line it continued to Abiathar, whom Solomon deposed, and appointed Zadok, of the family of Eleazar, in his stead (1 Kings 2:35), in which it remained till the time of the Captivity. After the Return, Joshua, the son of Josedek, of the family of Eleazar, was appointed to this office. After him the succession was changed from time to time under priestly or political influences. (http://eastonsbibledictionary.com/h/high.htm)​

 

[Cribstyl]

I wonder why we demand inerrancy from visions? It's like demanding inerrancy from dreams. The person is an aspect of the total media. At some point, even if the vision is "perfect" it still must be transmitted through the human and be subject to the reduction and abstraction of language.

Then the reader must morph language back into knowledge and insight. They then take this and share it with others, and the chain gets longer!

Is that what you see?

Tell me if I am wrong?

The purpose of bell on the borders is so the priest could be heard while ministering before God - if he were to die, the bells would stop ringing and he could be pulled out of the Most Holy Place.

Exd 28:35And it shall be upon Aaron to minister: and his sound shall be heard when he goeth in unto the holy [place] before the LORD, and when he cometh out, that he die not.

To suggeest that Jesus had bell or bells on His garment appears to suggest that Jesus could die while ministering.

Why does the bible teach

Hbr 10:12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
We must understand the difference between the ministry of sacrifice vs the ministry of intercession.

Ex 29 explains what these appropriately dressed priest are to perform..........blood sacrifice for sins.
Exd 28:43And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy [place]; that they bear not iniquity, and die: [it shall be] a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.
Exd 29:1¶And this [is] the thing that thou shalt do unto them to hallow them, to minister unto me in the priest's office: Take one young bullock, and two rams without blemish,


CRIB

 

[Sophia7]

Is that what you see?

Tell me if I am wrong?

The purpose of bell on the borders is so the priest could be heard while ministering before God - if he were to die, the bells would stop ringing and he could be pulled out of the Most Holy Place.

The high priest was commanded to wear the bells so that he wouldn't die, but he did not wear them into the MHP. The idea of a rope tied around the priest's ankle so that he could be pulled out if he died isn't in the Bible. It's an extra-biblical legend. Did you read this post?
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=41846402&postcount=15

Exd 28:35And it shall be upon Aaron to minister: and his sound shall be heard when he goeth in unto the holy [place] before the LORD, and when he cometh out, that he die not.

To suggeest that Jesus had bell or bells on His garment appears to suggest that Jesus could die while ministering.

I agree that Jesus wouldn't have needed bells anyway because the idea that He would be at risk of dying again after He offered His once-for-all sacrifice is absurd.

Why does the bible teach

Hbr 10:12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
We must understand the difference between the ministry of sacrifice vs the ministry of intercession.

Ex 29 explains what these appropriately dressed priest are to perform..........blood sacrifice for sins.
Exd 28:43And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy [place]; that they bear not iniquity, and die: [it shall be] a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.
Exd 29:1¶And this [is] the thing that thou shalt do unto them to hallow them, to minister unto me in the priest's office: Take one young bullock, and two rams without blemish,


CRIB

 

[Adventtruth]

As far as I'm concerned the garments are the least of the problems in those quote.

AT

 

[Cribstyl]

The high priest was commanded to wear the bells so that he wouldn't die, but he did not wear them into the MHP. The idea of a rope tied around the priest's ankle so that he could be pulled out if he died isn't in the Bible. It's an extra-biblical legend. Did you read this post?
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=41846402&postcount=15

I agree that Jesus wouldn't have needed bells anyway because the idea that He would be at risk of dying again after He offered His once-for-all sacrifice is absurd.

Thanks Sophia ....... (reading text again and researching sources)

Kool.....scratch the rope ....Ex28 makes it crystal clear that the sound of the bells was to hear Him coming and going from in the Holy place.

Yes.....All this signified a type of Christ, a mediator in the sanctaury, Holy and undefiled.

As far as I'm concerned the garments are the least of the problems in those quote.

AT

I agree, prophets and error in prophecy means that God made a mistake...."Whoops my bad"

I believe that EGW would want us to put confidence in the bible over her choice words. Especially since the EGW library regulates correspondence concerning her revelations from God.


CRIB

 

[Avonia]

How would SDAs be able to base their beliefs on prophecies in Daniel and Revelation that were given through visions if the visions are subject to error? What if it wasn't 2300 days, but 1300 instead? What if Daniel made a mistake?

Exactly. But as you know, many Adventists believe the whole process is overseen by the Holy Spirit, and this eliminates the possibility of error. So they wouldn't entertain your example. That's fine. I have no problem with people holding that position.

What I find interesting is the translation down the chain and the nature of language and abstraction. Red says the Holy Spirit monitors the process ALL the way down. But the issue with that is obvious. People come to different conclusions reading the same text, so at that point you have to assert that the other person isn't receiving Spirit.