Barry Smith, End-Times.....OK?

salamacum · Dec 15, 2008

What do the charismatic traditionally or currently make of end-times scenarios, most forcefully, for example put foreward by the likes of Barry Smith.

You know, Babylon > Medio-Persia > Greece > Rome > EC > Financial System > AntiChrist > Apocalypse > Return of Christ > Establishment of the millenium.

(Obviously bits missed off, here)

Is it valid? Can the Bible be used like this?

And for those that DO think it's important, how dangerous is it spiritually for us to neglect it?

JimB · Dec 15, 2008

Sure the Bible can be used like that … and is. It may not be correct, but it sure sells books and tapes.

~I. D. Claire

Walls built to keep others out also keep you in.

psalms 91 · Dec 15, 2008

nm, not worth it

Faulty · Dec 15, 2008

salamacum said:
What do the charismatic traditionally or currently make of end-times scenarios, most forcefully, for example put foreward by the likes of Barry Smith.

You know, Babylon > Medio-Persia > Greece > Rome > EC > Financial System > AntiChrist > Apocalypse > Return of Christ > Establishment of the millenium.

(Obviously bits missed off, here)

Is it valid? Can the Bible be used like this?

And for those that DO think it's important, how dangerous is it spiritually for us to neglect it?

Jesus commands us to understand the signs and to know when he's near.

He even rebuked the Jews of His day for not understanding the prophecies concerning His first coming, declaring they can discern the weather based on signs so how in the world did they miss Him, they had a prohpesy given to them of the exact day Messiah would arrive, yet they ignored it.

Even today you can read prior prophecy as history. When Alexander the Great approached the gates of Jerusalem, the priests came out and and showed him a passage we find in Daniel 11, and he declared that passage was about him, which was true. In fact, that chapter up to verse 35 outlines history up until a generation before Jesus came the first time, from Alexander to Antiochus Epiphanes (verse 36 skips the church age and goes right to the end and deals with the AC and God's 7-year dealings with Israel as God doesn't ever deal with the Jews and the Church at the same time).

Through prophecy we can know what to expect. Ezekiel 36 and 37 tell of the restoration of Israel, which we can look back on as historical fact and compare what happened historically to the prophetic account.

These few of hundreds of confirmed and fulfilled prophecies are proof that the Bible is the true inspired Word of God. No other book or religion can make that claim WITH evidence.

JimB · Dec 15, 2008

bill16652 said:
nm, not worth it

I agree. Every prophecy expert has a different slant on the figures and nations that will arise in the End Time. How can it be possible to discern the times when all of our experts are offering such different scenarios?

~I. D. Claire

Walls built to keep others out also keep you in.

lismore · Dec 15, 2008

I agree with Faultysurplus post.

the.Sheepdog · Dec 15, 2008

What does the Vineyards Church teach Jim?

In my view FS is 1000% right on the mark. and those experts you disdain agree more than disagree. I am pre-trib in beleif, but mid tribs still get to the same place as me. They just go earlier than they thought!

lismore · Dec 15, 2008

salamacum said:
What do the charismatic traditionally or currently make of end-times scenarios, most forcefully, for example put foreward by the likes of Barry Smith.

Hey, I actually heard Barry Smith speak when he came to Perth Christian Centre in the late 1990s. I've got a video of him at the meeting talking about economics, its absolutely scary how much of what he said actually came to pass. Like the credit crunch and stock market crash of this year which he predicted in great detail. He fell when he tried to predict dates or specific years, but what he said came to pass.

lismore · Dec 15, 2008

salamacum said:
And for those that DO think it's important, how dangerous is it spiritually for us to neglect it?

Take the mark of the beast for example.

A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." {Rev 14}

Anyone who gets the mark will be tormented with burning sulphur forever. So yes knowing these things is absolutely vital.

Faulty · Dec 15, 2008

Jimbeaux said:
I agree. Every “prophecy expert” has a different slant on the figures and nations that will arise in the “End Time.” How can it be possible to “discern the times” when all of our “experts” are offering such different scenarios?

There is a difference between discerning the signs and predicting scenarios. Back in 1917, those who heard of the Balfour declaration could see that the rebirth of Israel was about to happen, but they didn't know just how. They came up with all these different ways of how it would come to pass but no one could know it would take a world depression and a world war before it came to pass. The sign was there, it was discerned, and only those watching through prophecy were expecting it, even if they didn't have the right scenario in mind.

Just today I had a conversation with someone concerning Isaiah 17, the total destruction of Damascus. I'm thinking it's the next big event, but even though the scenarios may not be correct, the event is still coming...soon.

psalms 91 · Dec 16, 2008

Jimbeaux said:
I agree. Every prophecy expert has a different slant on the figures and nations that will arise in the End Time. How can it be possible to discern the times when all of our experts are offering such different scenarios?

~I. D. Claire

Walls built to keep others out also keep you in.

I will answer in terms of the nations to align and rise. Read Ezekiel especially Chapter 38 and 39 and do the re4search and you will identify the nations mentioned there with little trouble.

JimB · Dec 16, 2008

I know. I used to teach “prophecy” (think prognostication, educated guesses) from those chapters. One of those nations I identified as the Soviet Union—Gog, Magog, Rosh (Russia), Meshech (Moscow), and Tubal (Tobolsk). Neatly threaded, huh?

Only, the Soviet Union no longer exists.

So much for my expertise. But it sounded good at the time.

~Benny Dixon

Walls built to keep others out also keep you in.

psalms 91 · Dec 16, 2008

Jimbeaux said:
I know. I used to teach prophecy (think prognostication, educated guesses) from those chapters. One of those nations I identified as the Soviet UnionGog, Magog, Rosh (Russia), Meshech (Moscow), and Tubal (Tobolsk). Neatly threaded, huh?

Only, the Soviet Union no longer exists.

So much for my expertise. But it sounded good at the time.

~Benny Dixon

Walls built to keep others out also keep you in.

This could be a thread all by irself. Just because it is playing possum and lulling the west does not change prophecy. Russia and the others do still exist and Putin is looking more and more like someone who will bring them back as you saw it. Bible prophecy will come to pass and man will line up with it rather than God changing it.

SavedByGrace3 · Dec 16, 2008

Jimbeaux said:
Sure the Bible can be used like that and is. It may not be correct, but it sure sells books and tapes.

~I. D. Claire

Walls built to keep others out also keep you in.

I suspect the biggest sellers of books and tapes are heresy hunters.
Very lucrative business!

Always in His Presence · Dec 16, 2008

didaskalos said:
I suspect the biggest sellers of books and tapes are heresy hunters.
Very lucrative business!

Faulty · Dec 16, 2008

I'm a bit surprised that those who shepherd and council a portion of the Church aren't a bit more sensitive to prophecy, considering its 40%+ of the Bible. Obviously Someone thinks its important.

JimB · Dec 16, 2008

didaskalos said:
I suspect the biggest sellers of books and tapes are heresy hunters.
Very lucrative business!

Heresy hunters? How did heresy hunters get into this conversation?

Let's try to stay on topic, Dids.

~Robin Banks

Sometimes it takes as much faith to let go as it does to hang on.

Seeking Him · Dec 17, 2008

FaultySurplus said:
I'm a bit surprised that those who shepherd and council a portion of the Church aren't a bit more sensitive to prophecy, considering its 40%+ of the Bible. Obviously Someone thinks its important.

Peter thought it was important. He said "we told you about the power and coming of the Lord, we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." Then he went on to say we have a sure word of prophecy, a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns.

In the darkness we have this light - the prophecies. We can look forward to the day dawning.

Leimeng · Dec 17, 2008

~ No matter if Jesus is coming or going, I plan on being where He wants me to me be. As the sayings go (and there are a lot of them): Pray for pre, prepare for post! I am a pantribulationist, it will all pan out in the end! When the roll is called up yonder I'll be there!
~ While it is important to read the Book of Revelations (and be blessed) there is no guarantee that one will understand it! The Holy Spirit is our teacher though, and if we are actually willing to listen to Him and let Him guide us, we will probably come out alright in the end.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

salamacum · Dec 21, 2008

didaskalos said:
I suspect the biggest sellers of books and tapes are heresy hunters.
Very lucrative business!

I agree and it's a shame.

It's a shame that when you google Christian stuff you more likely end up with sites where Christians slag each other off in the cause of "discerning the times" or "contending for the faith".

All very me, me, me stuff.

Thank God the Muslims do the same (but they are more conscious of the internet as a proselytising tool)

Maybe that's why Buddhism seems so popular. (the truth is within you, etc etc)

Barry Smith, End-Times.....OK?

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